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Marisal	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:50:00 - [1] Was reading through the news report on the latest college shooting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7246003.stm and this part kinda jumped out at me "It is also the fourth shooting at a US education establishment within a week." from the above article. Are things really that bad in the US, perhaps its time to look at ways of reducing the amount of firearms available?
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:54:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/02/2008 01:54:30 Originally by: Marisal Are things really that bad in the US, perhaps its time to look at ways of reducing the amount of firearms available? You can't effectively restrict firearms; you either have to ban them outright or accept them and educate people about them. In a country with guns, if someone wants a gun, they can get a gun. The only way to stop this is to stop having guns in your country. Japan is an example of a country that bans private ownership of handguns/etc. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:56:00 - [3] Originally by: Marisal Was reading through the news report on the latest college shooting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7246003.stm and this part kinda jumped out at me "It is also the fourth shooting at a US education establishment within a week." from the above article. Are things really that bad in the US, perhaps its time to look at ways of reducing the amount of firearms available? They have tried...they would, but thats almost as hard as reducing the population of china. There are millions of guns that aren't registered and will never be registered. This isnt switzerland. Getting rid of firearms in america would result in a government blue screen of death LOL! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Hebik Fane Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.15 01:58:00 - [4] Edited by: Hebik Fane on 15/02/2008 01:59:45 Northern is close to my house, my fiance uses their library when she does not feel like driving into the city for her school, scary. Bad week all around in Chicago, earlier this week 6 women were shot, 5 killed in a store on the south side. Amazing what people will do. As far as the 4th shooting this week, i don't believe the others were of a random nature like this one, but I could be wrong with that. Not that it really makes it different. As far as gun control, not sure it would do much good at this point, too many already in circulation. Also I wonder if it would really help, if you really wanted to get a gun in the UK and were willing to spend the money would you really have trouble getting one? Honest question there, I'm curious. But gun control is a big ball of controversy that I really don't want to get into. Anyways, just 1 more reason I have little faith in human beings. -Hebik P.S. Just an FYI, handguns are actually illegal within the Chicago city limits, but it does absolutely no good. --------------------------------------------- Havoc Inc
Felix Crusher Amarr RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.15 02:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Felix Crusher on 15/02/2008 02:12:04 That's not entirely true, Dark. I'm Canadian, and from news reports I've seen, it seems that many of the guns used here by criminals are brought in illegally from the US. I'm not saying we don't have our own problems though, it appears that the guns usually are traded for ********* grown illegally up here. It looks like our border security still sucks, the guards just hassle people crossing the border to make it look like they're doing a thorough job. EDIT: Stupid forum censoring. It's traded for a certain plant people like smoking to get high.
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.15 02:12:00 - [6] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/02/2008 02:12:17 Originally by: Felix Crusher That's not entirely true, Dark. I'm Canadian, and from news reports I've seen, it seems that many of the guns used by criminals are brought in illegally from the US. That's sort of the point; unless you outright ban guns completely, criminals will always find a way to get them. It also helps to have guns banned in all neighboring countries--or live on an island. In other words, its nearly impossible unless you're, like, Japan. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Felix Crusher Amarr RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Felix Crusher on 15/02/2008 03:08:33 Okay, I kinda wandered off part-way through my last post, but the point I wanted to get to that although there isn't a lot you can do about external sources, you can at least have an impact on local availability, even without banning guns outright. It's better than doing nothing. The US's gun crime rate per capita is awful for a developed, politically stable country.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:19:00 - [8] Gun crimes only sound bad due to media. Sure it's the 4th shooting within a week at a school (2 of them didn't even involve children) so one would think that schools are bad now. Theres only 108,000 schools in the US not including colleges. 4 shootings. 108,000 schools. Personally I would worry more about living in certain parts of LA, Chicago, Phoenix, and other major areas that you don't hear about in the news. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Felix Crusher The US's gun crime rate per capita is awful for a developed, politically stable country. There are many reasons for this: 1. A huge population of relatively lower-class, uneducated people, especially in urban areas. 2. A prison system built on punishment rather than support and rehabilitation. 3. The drug war--we have a huge number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison, vastly raising prison populations and pushing many people towards crime who otherwise would never have touched a gun in their life. There's more, but I can't think of them right now. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Felix Crusher The US's gun crime rate per capita is awful for a developed, politically stable country. There are many reasons for this: 1. A huge population of relatively lower-class, uneducated people, especially in urban areas. 2. A prison system built on punishment rather than support and rehabilitation. 3. The drug war--we have a huge number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison, vastly raising prison populations and pushing many people towards crime who otherwise would never have touched a gun in their life. There's more, but I can't think of them right now. Gangs moving in from South America. But that kinda falls under Drug Wars. Holiday season people tend to get desperate (happens in every country) Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.15 03:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Felix Crusher Edited by: Felix Crusher on 15/02/2008 02:12:04I'm Canadian, and from news reports I've seen, it seems that many of the guns used here by criminals are brought in illegally from the US. Propaganda to cover up the ineffectiveness of the Canadian gun registry, tbh. All the shootings Ive bothered to track on the news, guns turned out to be legal or stolen from a legit gun shop.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:01:00 - [12] To add if you've watched the news the past few days US has two school shootings a day before this. Sad fact is people are monkeys at times and want to get in the highlights/herd. There is more to school shootings the gun rights, its outcast bent on making a name in there "in-crowd".
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Corstaad To add if you've watched the news the past few days US has two school shootings a day before this. Sad fact is people are monkeys at times and want to get in the highlights/herd. There is more to school shootings the gun rights, its outcast bent on making a name in there "in-crowd". Real issue, in my opinion, is that society makes people outcasts for being introverted, or eccentric. Obviously no excuse for shooting a bunch of people, but I think it can push people in that direction. See here.It's a clip about kids committing suicide and the like, but hurting yourself and hurting someone else aren't far removed from one another.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:30:00 - [14] Another day, another campus... weird these shootings only seem to happen on campuses with weapon prohibition, huh? You can try to control the firearms in the united states all you want. You're only going to take them out of the hands of the law abiding. I live in California, a buddy of mine at my unit in San Bruno is on the Greenfield police dept, his childhood best friend, a gang member now... just got in a full shipment (about 50 units) of AKs for his gang up in Greenfield. All brand new, full auto, aquired 100% illegally. Why cant he do anything about it? The gang member is a family friend and he has a family to worry about. 50 AKs even in the hands of people with no real concept on how to use them are still a massive force. Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:22:00 - [15] This has no reason to be in the thread but your "buddy" has a crap load of SKS's. Your buddy has a semi auto weapon with a count chochula clip. That clip can be made by any handyman. These school shooting are created by stupid kids that don't realize there's life after HS. Simple stupid to the point these are awful people with no place in life.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:32:00 - [16] Banning guns wont propably do anything to this problem. Sure, no longer school shootouts, but folks will start to use explosives. Seriously, you would not believe how easy they are to make; drain opener, any nitric salt and a certain sweetener equals an explosive. All of the materials can be bought from any supermarket, without any restrictions what-so-ever. You can even cut out the nitric salts, because these might be hard to come by, and make nitric acid straight from air and water, with electricity, then distill it with that drain opener. You don't even need proper chemistry education for them, sure it helps to improvise with the materials, but it's really not even a requirement. Scared? You should be. I am. _______ ◕◡◕
Irish Whiskey Caldari Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Great Artista Scared? You should be. I am. Thats why someday your name will turn up in a massive media exploited shooting. When you should have been paying attention to your surroundings, which every human being has a responsibility to do, you were giving full attention to text on a screen.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Another day, another campus... weird these shootings only seem to happen on campuses with weapon prohibition, huh? You can try to control the firearms in the united states all you want. You're only going to take them out of the hands of the law abiding. I live in California, a buddy of mine at my unit in San Bruno is on the Greenfield police dept, his childhood best friend, a gang member now... just got in a full shipment (about 50 units) of AKs for his gang up in Greenfield. All brand new, full auto, aquired 100% illegally. Why cant he do anything about it? The gang member is a family friend and he has a family to worry about. 50 AKs even in the hands of people with no real concept on how to use them are still a massive force. indeed any idea on how many campuses allow firearms? and there is always a black market, if there is demand someone will make supply available. I'd like to think that if they ever took away the 2nd amendment that the best thing to do would be to go down in a blaze of glory. although id probally just turn my guns in. (if i had guns)
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:53:00 - [19] Originally by: Great Artista Banning guns wont propably do anything to this problem. Sure, no longer school shootouts, but folks will start to use explosives. Seriously, you would not believe how easy they are to make; drain opener, any nitric salt and a certain sweetener equals an explosive. All of the materials can be bought from any supermarket, without any restrictions what-so-ever. You can even cut out the nitric salts, because these might be hard to come by, and make nitric acid straight from air and water, with electricity, then distill it with that drain opener. You don't even need proper chemistry education for them, sure it helps to improvise with the materials, but it's really not even a requirement. Scared? You should be. I am. The country I live in doesn't allow the private ownership of guns. Now, this may or may not have anything to do with the second ammendment, but I can walk into a university with absolutely no fear of getting stabbed, shot, beaten or blown up. A lot of people say that with gun control people will just get handguns illegally, but the thing is, I know how to get a lot of things, I can get my hands on any drug you can name, and quite a bit of license only chemicals from the chem labs. What I can't do is get my hands on a gun, I've got no idea where to even try. I could get a rifle, maybe a target pistol, possibly a shotgun. Semi-automatic weapons? chances are zip. Now most of pro-gun America will say to me "fine, good luck defending yourself when some *****head with an uzi comes to rob your house", but the thing is that stuff doesn't happen that often in real life. Back when we had gun control introduced, the same argument was put forward by pro-gun organisations, but the thing is, in the years after gun control, our crime rates plummeted. Although I see how people really like guns, and see their personal freedoms impeached by the man taking away their toys, I've got to really shake my head at the attitude of certain people in the US
Miniturret Amarr Rum Runners Inc	Posted - 2008.02.15 05:58:00 - [20] See the problem with outright banning guns in the US as it has been stated by others is that we are not an island. If you were to outright ban them, there is still central and south America that already imports illegal drugs they would then see another venue open up which would be fire arms sales. Of course it would all be illegal but those that wanted them IE the criminals and other bad guy types would still have access to them, while putting those that could legally buy them to defend themselves (Police reaction time in the country areas is very very slow most of the time due to travel time) at risk. There is more that I would like to say but I'll keep my Patriotic ramblings to myself and just try to stay objective. Tired of looking for shops and services see here: Compiled List of Shops, Manufacturers, and Services
Irish Whiskey Caldari Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Gojyu but I can walk into a university with absolutely no fear of getting stabbed, shot, beaten or blown up. A lot of people say that with gun control people will just get handguns illegally, but the thing is, I know how to get a lot of things, I can get my hands on any drug you can name, and quite a bit of license only chemicals from the chem labs. What I can't do is get my hands on a gun, I've got no idea where to even try. Where do you live? 8 months and 12 kilos of yayo supplemented by 40 handguns with loaded clips will change that place forever. Oh, unless your police carry firearms. So your enforcers enslave you with the power to kill why those same means are illegal for a citizen to even posess? Then yeah, keep it for yourself.
Gojyu Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Irish Whiskey Originally by: Gojyu but I can walk into a university with absolutely no fear of getting stabbed, shot, beaten or blown up. A lot of people say that with gun control people will just get handguns illegally, but the thing is, I know how to get a lot of things, I can get my hands on any drug you can name, and quite a bit of license only chemicals from the chem labs. What I can't do is get my hands on a gun, I've got no idea where to even try. Where do you live? 8 months and 12 kilos of yayo supplemented by 40 handguns with loaded clips will change that place forever. Oh, unless your police carry firearms. So your enforcers enslave you with the power to kill why those same means are illegal for a citizen to even posess? Then yeah, keep it for yourself. I don't know about you, but if I have to choose between cops carrying pistols and every nutjob, white supremisist and nationalist having access to military grade weaponry (in the us, you can legally own a semi-automatic assault rifle, which anyone with access to google can convert to fully automatic), I'm choosing the cops. As for the coke and guns comment, we have ******* in australia, we also have handguns. I somehow doubt nobody in the history of the country has thought "hey, I could be a drug baron" before.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Irish Whiskey Oh, unless your police carry firearms. So your enforcers enslave you with the power to kill why those same means are illegal for a citizen to even posess? This is one of the arguments I always use for concealed carry of firearms. I trust cops no more than the average citizen. Maybe even a bit less.
Steakkbone Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:21:00 - [24] Edited by: Steakkbone on 15/02/2008 06:22:06 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Felix Crusher The US's gun crime rate per capita is awful for a developed, politically stable country. There are many reasons for this: 1. A huge population of relatively lower-class, uneducated people, especially in urban areas. 2. A prison system built on punishment rather than support and rehabilitation. 3. The drug war--we have a huge number of nonviolent drug offenders in prison, vastly raising prison populations and pushing many people towards crime who otherwise would never have touched a gun in their life. There's more, but I can't think of them right now. A few things. First, we use a punishment style prison system because support and rehabilitation methods simply do not work. Generally speaking, prisoners are not able to be rehabilitated. They go to prison, congregate with the other prisoners and become better criminals by learning from each others mistakes (Prison is full of criminals too smart to get caught). Secondly, I agree with your statement on non violent drug offenders. I wish we could have a different system for them. Lastly (not relating to your post), you cannot ban guns in the US . They tried to ban alcohol too during prohibition, and that didn't work out too well. If you ban firearms in the United States, the criminals will still have guns and that will leave the law abiding citizens defenseless. I also believe that the reason the US has more violent crime than any other country is due to the 300 million people (or so) that live here, and the sheer amount of diversity present. America is the big melting pot, just without the melting. Everyone brings their culture over here and that spawns hatred and violence.
Irish Whiskey Caldari Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Brea Lafail This is one of the arguments I always use for concealed carry of firearms. I trust cops no more than the average citizen. Maybe even a bit less. Yep, roger. Loud and clear. As for Australia, been there done that. The women there LOVE americans. End of file.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:31:00 - [26] You can rap a load **** on these guys. It doesn't matter, evil people will do what they wish. The wish they'd just realize there not at all different from us. Even low key labor drudge, low key business drudgess it doesn't matter just grow UP!
Dark Shikari Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:39:00 - [27] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/02/2008 06:39:58 Originally by: Steakkbone A few things. First, we use a punishment style prison system because support and rehabilitation methods simply do not work. Generally speaking, prisoners are not able to be rehabilitated. It works in almost every other developed country in the world. See Scandinavia for a perfect example. Originally by: Steakkbone They go to prison, congregate with the other prisoners and become better criminals by learning from each others mistakes (Prison is full of criminals too smart to get caught). Wait, and this is an argument for sending them to prison? That's literally exactly why our prison system is problematic. You send to a place where crime is an accepted part of culture--and you expect them not to repeat it? Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Polonium 210	Posted - 2008.02.15 06:49:00 - [28] RIP, gunman. He wanted to kill all humans, but run out of ammo :(
Steakkbone Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.15 08:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/02/2008 06:39:58 Originally by: Steakkbone A few things. First, we use a punishment style prison system because support and rehabilitation methods simply do not work. Generally speaking, prisoners are not able to be rehabilitated. It works in almost every other developed country in the world. See Scandinavia for a perfect example. Originally by: Steakkbone They go to prison, congregate with the other prisoners and become better criminals by learning from each others mistakes (Prison is full of criminals too smart to get caught). Wait, and this is an argument for sending them to prison? That's literally exactly why our prison system is problematic. You send to a place where crime is an accepted part of culture--and you expect them not to repeat it? I did not mean to imply that our criminal justice system is perfect, it is extremely flawed. However, we have tried rehabilitation methods in the past and they have failed, and wasted money.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.15 08:32:00 - [30] cross the bridge here in laredo, yeah, then you'll see some gun problems.

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