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Amira
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:09:00 -
[1]
So I am going to learn the Scorpion for EW, and I want to learn a battleship for general damage dealing/tanking. The Apocalypse has been the pinnacle of tankness ever since I was a little girl, but the Tempest can really rock out damage. I have good advice from the combat killers of MASS, the ki11ing3st 13wting3st corp around, but I'd like to hear what the general populace has to say as well.
Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic: Apocalypse vs Tempest... discuss.
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"The Spartans ask not how many, but where they are." -Agis II of Sparta
'Valor is the contempt of death and pain.' -Tacitus |
Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:21:00 -
[2]
It really depends on your skills and tactics.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:29:00 -
[3]
I think there is a reason why everybody is avoiding this topic. It's hard to compare these two battleships. I would say that they are about tied for all around damage dealers. Apoc can have a little more defense than a tempest becuase of all the low slots and the cap recharge. It's a decent armor tanker, and a shield tanker. Tempest is more of a shield tanker, and doesn't have quite the kind of cap that the apoc does, but the tempest is capable of more damage due to the damage bonuses.
So I'd say its a toss up. A little more damage and less cap vs a little less damage and more cap. Also remember that a heavy cap booster on a tempest allows you to have a lot of cap anyway, and you would still be left over with as many med slots as an apoc has.
One thing to remember though, is that the apoc is probably the most versatile ship in the game. You can easily get a decent layout using any of the 3 turrets, and even some missles. And it has enough powergrid to mount lots of large stuff, so even though it doesn't get damage bonuses it can do almost the same damage by mounting like 7 1400's.
Apoc is a better all around ship, but a tempest should be able to hold its own with an apoc any day.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:40:00 -
[4]
They both get pwned by a Megathron, either way.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
PirateShampoo
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:40:00 -
[5]
Apoc cant compare with the tempest when it comes to PVP.
Do you like movies about Gladiators? |
Soren
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:41:00 -
[6]
If your skills are set for damage go with the tempest, the skills will make the biggest impact.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.01 19:45:00 -
[7]
Depends - if she already has L Hybrid Level 4 she could easily turn her Apoc into a Blasterapoc.
That'd cut down training up projectile skills.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.04.01 20:02:00 -
[8]
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.04.01 20:28:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
They both get pwned by a Megathron, either way.
Depends. It really depends.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.01 20:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 01/04/2004 20:42:50
Well, JarJar, I'm not saying the Megathron would always win.
I'm just saying that if I was the Megathron pilot.........
On the whole, I'd recommend a Tempest.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
hellwarrior
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Posted - 2004.04.01 20:44:00 -
[11]
Quote:
They both get pwned by a Megathron, either way.
you have not faught my blasterpoc yet :o
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.04.01 20:50:00 -
[12]
well u guys have probably not seen my blasterthr0n in action!
"We brake for nobody"
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PirateShampoo
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Posted - 2004.04.01 21:12:00 -
[13]
Quote:
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
Agreed... Unless you are 70k+ away from your target. Use the mega for CQB and the tempest for range damage..
Do you like movies about Gladiators? |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.04.01 21:40:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Quote:
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
Agreed... Unless you are 70k+ away from your target. Use the mega for CQB and the tempest for range damage..
I fail to see why a close range tempest setup can't be as good as a close range mega setup. Unless you aren't creative enough to figure out what to do with all that cap you save by using projectiles...
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2004.04.01 21:50:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote:
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
Agreed... Unless you are 70k+ away from your target. Use the mega for CQB and the tempest for range damage..
A mega can be just as deadly at 70km, if not more so.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Outcastino
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Posted - 2004.04.01 22:08:00 -
[16]
*thinks tempest can outdamage megathron*
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I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory! |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2004.04.01 22:35:00 -
[17]
Quote:
*thinks tempest can outdamage megathron*
I think differently 
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.04.01 22:58:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
Agreed... Unless you are 70k+ away from your target. Use the mega for CQB and the tempest for range damage..
I fail to see why a close range tempest setup can't be as good as a close range mega setup. Unless you aren't creative enough to figure out what to do with all that cap you save by using projectiles...
Nobody said that a Tempest can't be a decent ship at close range, but a blaster Megathron can still deal out more damage. And damage was what the original post was asking about.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.04.01 23:06:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you need a damage dealer: Megathron > Tempest > Apocalypse
Agreed... Unless you are 70k+ away from your target. Use the mega for CQB and the tempest for range damage..
I fail to see why a close range tempest setup can't be as good as a close range mega setup. Unless you aren't creative enough to figure out what to do with all that cap you save by using projectiles...
Nobody said that a Tempest can't be a decent ship at close range, but a blaster Megathron can still deal out more damage. And damage was what the original post was asking about.
Point taken.
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Nervar
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Posted - 2004.04.02 02:18:00 -
[20]
A bit dissapointed none has mentioned the Armagedeon yet I mean if you want a ship with gank power, its the arma.
Working with the armas natural bonuses, add lots off dual heavy beams and dmg mods will produce a very SCARY effect. The key here is rof and dot. The fact that dual heavy beams use the same or lower cap than a 425(depending on skill) contributes to the nasty effect.
Now a group off these things set up the right way will make mee wet my pants
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What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.04.02 04:01:00 -
[21]
A Tempest can do some very serious damage rigged for close range. Compare it to a blasterthron:
Neutron Blaster Cannon w/ AM ammo
2750 grid
65 CPU
3km optimal, 18km falloff
21.3 damage / sec
Dual 425mm Autocannon w/ EMP
1250 grid
33 CPU
1.6km optimal, 18km falloff
11.7 damage / sec
Now mount 7 neutron blasters on a Megathron (if you can somehow get the 19250 grid) and assume L4 battleship skill, and you get about 179 damage / sec before other skills or mods. That's very impressive, but...
Mount 6 autocannons on a Tempest (also at L4 skill) and you get 105 damage / second for a mere 7500 grid and 198 base CPU. And it uses a mere 5 cap / second! That's 60% of the damage of a HIGHLY theoretical 7-neutron-blaster Mega without even using up one low slot. (It's also the same base damage as seven tachyons.) Considering you still have thousands of grid and about 250-350 CPU left over you could easily add an x-lg booster, launchers, damage mods, webs, or whatever... and the Tempest's balanced slots let you really mix it up. I used to fly an Apoc and 4 mid slots gets old at times... though it beats my Geddon's 3!
If you want to do the MOST damage possible in the least amount of time, a blaster-armed Megathron or Apoc is the way to go. If you want to do a LOT of damage and still have plenty of cap to tank with or jam, an autocannon-armed Tempest is good. And if you just want to sit back at long range and snipe, tachs / megabeams with radio or 1400mms are both great at it so take your pick.
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2004.04.02 05:33:00 -
[22]
I've seen some awesome displays of close range firepower from the mega and as others stated you can definitely outfit the apoc /w blasters, provided you have the skills. Personally i still like the Temp best just for its high dmg output and low cap for firing. In the end this works best for me since i can deal out alot, but still have the cap to take the heat from a blasterpoc or mega. Course when it comes to close combat the blaster ships win out most of the time.
SO the answer in short is (my opinion assuming all skills equal) - if you plan on close quarters go apoc (equippeed with blasters) if long range is your style then temp.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.04.02 09:48:00 -
[23]
Dual 425's on a tempest are nice, but I think I like 800's better. Better damage and better optimal range. And its still quite easy to fit 6 of them on a tempest without any rcu's. You might need a power diag or 2, but those are good anyway since cap relays don't work if you're sheild tanking.
Something that makes both the tempest and apoc more appealing to me than a mega is the cap. Apoc has lots of cap so you can afford to use it. Tempest uses proj so you don't need a lot of cap. Just about every time I've ever died in eve, if I were to take a screenshot before I died, I'd bet that 95% of the time I was out of cap when I died. Cap is very useful, and running out of it means almost certain death for a blasterthron.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.02 10:09:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Dual 425's on a tempest are nice, but I think I like 800's better. Better damage and better optimal range. And its still quite easy to fit 6 of them on a tempest without any rcu's. You might need a power diag or 2, but those are good anyway since cap relays don't work if you're sheild tanking.
Something that makes both the tempest and apoc more appealing to me than a mega is the cap. Apoc has lots of cap so you can afford to use it. Tempest uses proj so you don't need a lot of cap. Just about every time I've ever died in eve, if I were to take a screenshot before I died, I'd bet that 95% of the time I was out of cap when I died. Cap is very useful, and running out of it means almost certain death for a blasterthron.
That's why Megathron pilots never engage unless they know they can get close without using more than 50% of their cap.
I've gone up against 2 Tempest pilots who had short-range setups (800mm's) and both times my Megathron (6x ion cannons) came out on top easily.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.04.02 13:16:00 -
[25]
The Tempest will own the Apoc.
But the Typhoon will own the Tempest....
And the Rifter owns all.
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Bellicose
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Posted - 2004.04.02 13:41:00 -
[26]
my blasterthron lasted 1 minut and 48 sec against a tempest starting off at 27km
Who needs a shovel when you have a nice big cannon?
KittenArmy
capn' crimson |
GFLTorque
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Posted - 2004.04.02 16:59:00 -
[27]
That's why Megathron pilots never engage unless they know they can get close without using more than 50% of their cap.
I've gone up against 2 Tempest pilots who had short-range setups (800mm's) and both times my Megathron (6x ion cannons) came out on top easily.
I can see the principle behind this, but the last Mega I faced in a Tempest at close range (I was rigged for long range) lasted about 35 seconds before exploding. After talking to the pilot following the encounter he confirmed a similar setup to what you described here. I realize it would be impossible to know his skill set vs others in gunnary... but the encounter told me friends shouldnt let friends drive Megathron's when a Tempest has Red Brackets around it.
As for the Apoc, in the hands of skilled pilots its an awesome ship. Its versitility makes it interesting when combat begins. Still short of being in a tanked Raven, I'd hate to know I was about to engage a skilled Tempest pilot.
IMO all the top level BShips have their uses, if handled by the appropriate skills, and a skilled pilot.
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
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Kynoch
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Posted - 2004.04.02 17:37:00 -
[28]
Quote:
That's why Megathron pilots never engage unless they know they can get close without using more than 50% of their cap.
I've gone up against 2 Tempest pilots who had short-range setups (800mm's) and both times my Megathron (6x ion cannons) came out on top easily.
I can see the principle behind this, but the last Mega I faced in a Tempest at close range (I was rigged for long range) lasted about 35 seconds before exploding. After talking to the pilot following the encounter he confirmed a similar setup to what you described here. I realize it would be impossible to know his skill set vs others in gunnary... but the encounter told me friends shouldnt let friends drive Megathron's when a Tempest has Red Brackets around it.
As for the Apoc, in the hands of skilled pilots its an awesome ship. Its versitility makes it interesting when combat begins. Still short of being in a tanked Raven, I'd hate to know I was about to engage a skilled Tempest pilot.
IMO all the top level BShips have their uses, if handled by the appropriate skills, and a skilled pilot.
Ive gone up against several Tempests with my Mega. 6X425s and launchers with proper skills and mods along with good loadout for defence deals out massive damage. I have never gotten that close. From 20k out to about 40k the 425s firing one per second can hold its own against anything. In all instances it was against experienced pirate pilots and has either been a draw or the tempest withdrew. I have seen pilots that resisted damage in a Tempest very well and I have seen Tempests fall very quickly in corp ops. The only time a Tempest gave me any trouble was when Lord Zap was blocking the exit to a station I was exiting and I was waylayed at close range with my pants down and got away with half armor. It was fun.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.04.03 08:40:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Archemedes on 03/04/2004 08:54:43
Quote:
Dual 425's on a tempest are nice, but I think I like 800's better. Better damage and better optimal range. And its still quite easy to fit 6 of them on a tempest without any rcu's. You might need a power diag or 2, but those are good anyway since cap relays don't work if you're sheild tanking.
Actually, damage per second is exactly the same for dual 425s and 800s. (All autocannons are like that: the largest and smallest of a given turret size have equal DPS while the middle one is slightly weaker  ). The 800 does have about 20% more range, but I assume if you use autocannons (or blasters) you're going to be using a webifier which means you'll be within even the 425's range.
EDIT: Forgot to add that the dual 425mm autocannon holds 2 1/2 times the ammo of an 800mm. Even with the faster rate of fire on the 425, you'll reload less often and that's always a plus.
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Stray Bullitt
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Posted - 2004.04.06 12:09:00 -
[30]
 hmm..
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