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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.01 22:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 01/04/2004 22:49:55
Reading over the latest CSM chatlog I was astounded by this bit from TomB:
 Quote:
TomB > PS: bount-hunting is a profession that has never existed, but it might get into consideration for making it possible with new system that will enter TQ in next major castor patch
I cannot conceive how CCP could not see Bounty Hunting as a profession. They made it possible to put bounties on people's heads in the first place. What did they think players would make of that? What's more, a revamped bounty system has been begged for as long as I have been in EVE (~6 months) and probably longer. The overall EVE community seems to support some better bounty system and for a game that espouses its PVP aspects Bounty Hunting would seem to be a natural fit. Am I reading this wrong somehow or does CCP really see Bounty Hunting as a never intended, maybe get around to it someday thing?
My other pet gripe is the bit about mining to a jet can as never having been intended by CCP and used as an argument to support a position (usually ore thieving...and this post is not a debate on ore thieving).
First, I can't see how CCP could not have foreseen this but it is a complicated game under the hood so maybe they missed the obvious...it happens. However, once introduced into the game (whenever that was if not always having been there) I expect people were mining into them within minutes of their release.
Exaggeration? Maybe but I seriously doubt they were in game for months before someone twigged to the idea of mining to a jet can. If CCP did not want this to be the case why was a change not put into effect to stop it shortly after? Now it is so well established the player community would howl if they took it out. To my way of thinking, regardless of what CCP originally intended in this regard, they have tacitly given their blessing to jet can mining.
That said I admit I am not a "beta" player who has seen EVE evolve from day #1 so if there is some history to this I am missing that makes jet cans an evil CCP must live with for other reasons I'd love to hear about it.
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Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.04.01 23:02:00 -
[2]
Quote:
My other pet gripe is the bit about mining to a jet can as never having been intended by CCP and used as an argument to support a position (usually ore thieving...and this post is not a debate on ore thieving).
Well they knew about this one since beta... everyone I knew that I played beta with used these as mining cans.
As for the bounty hunter statement I would have to double check my manual and box but I'm sure it was listed in one of those 2 as an occupation.
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Heff
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Posted - 2004.04.01 23:23:00 -
[3]
I'm not buying that jibberish about not having bounty-hunting as an intended profession. Mechanics have been in place since beta that allowed players to put bounties on other players and there is a Bounty chat channel. If there was never intention to have bounty-hunting as a profession, why have a game that supports bounties. Boooo. Poor answer.
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Jimmeh
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Posted - 2004.04.01 23:45:00 -
[4]
Of course bounty hunting is a legit profession in EVE but the sad truth is that most of the guys with a bounty on their heads are the more experienced pvp'ers, and the bounty reward just isn't worth the risk for most players.
Add to that the fact that killing the ship is not enough, (you have to get the pod too) and the odds become even more stacked against you.
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Skaz
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Posted - 2004.04.02 01:40:00 -
[5]
I think he meant to say by that statement was that bounty hunting hasn't been SUPPORTED in the way they intended and thus has not existed in CCP's intended way.
In short they're working on it and it'll be here SOONÖ 
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Aronis Contar
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Posted - 2004.04.02 02:19:00 -
[6]
Yeah, I'm 100% sure TomB meant that bounty hunting hasn't existed so far because of the difficulties in tracking your prey, etc... and not because CCP didn't think about it. What do you guess the bounty system is there for?
Ciao, Aronis!
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.02 02:36:00 -
[7]
Quote:
I think he meant to say by that statement was that bounty hunting hasn't been SUPPORTED in the way they intended and thus has not existed in CCP's intended way.
In short they're working on it and it'll be here SOONÖ
Ok...I can see that I guess. Writing fast in a chat window isn't the most conducive thing to clear prose.
That said I am still amazed at how longit has taken (and is still taking) as a workable bounty system would seem to me to be a prime way to inject action into the game. There are many players out there who live for PvP and I think this would serve to juice that up a great deal. I'll grant the solution for a workable bounty system may be difficult but EVE is pushing on a year old now. Guess I'm just a whiner who wants his SOONÖ now! 
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MiloMorai
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Posted - 2004.04.02 05:19:00 -
[8]
Well they have it listed on the box. "Miner, Mogul, Bounty Hunter, Spy" Inside flap on the small box. They'll probably just say "Oh we didn't say that, the PUBLISHER did."
Just an observation. I'm not a bouty hunter or ever plan to be. Just hate "bait and switch" and false advertising.
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Cabadrin
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Posted - 2004.04.02 06:04:00 -
[9]
I fully support a scalable response from CONCORD as well as a revamped bounty system. I've always wanted to chase after the pendejos who run maybe 300-400k away form a gate and hide. How can I chase and eliminate pirates if they flee and I can;t follow them?
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Coalition Kill Board |
Xelios
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Posted - 2004.04.02 06:11:00 -
[10]
What gets me is that it hasn't been looked at yet. So many problems could have been avoided if players had just had access to the tools they need to track and kill criminals in any area of space.
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SpiralArchitech
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Posted - 2004.04.02 06:21:00 -
[11]
Only thing i can think of is when u accept a bounty you are able to track that person on your map if anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know.
Another thing i h8 about bountys is the fact that their buddy can kill them and split the money whats that about?
It would be better if u could arrange to pay someone for delivery of the corpse of the intended victim which when completed the bounty hunter gets payed automatically just throwing ideas out there.
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Alberto
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Posted - 2004.04.29 01:56:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Well they have it listed on the box. "Miner, Mogul, Bounty Hunter, Spy" Inside flap on the small box. They'll probably just say "Oh we didn't say that, the PUBLISHER did."
Quote:
Just an observation. I'm not a bouty hunter or ever plan to be. Just hate "bait and switch" and false advertising.
It says on the box that you can build space stations
What a bunch of bullsh1t!!!!!!!!
****ing off society one dumba$$ at a time |
Charles Yeager
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Posted - 2004.04.29 02:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Charles Yeager on 29/04/2004 02:22:59
Biggest problem with Bounties is that there is no system in place to:
1. Effectively locate and kill your prey (i.e. safespots, logging off...etc.). Currently in EvE it is far too easy to avoid combat. People who cancelled their suscription still have bounties on them.
2. There are no safe-guards against fraud. People with large bounties on their heads can have their friends/alts kill them, and then share/take the cash.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.04.29 02:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mon Palae
Quote:
I think he meant to say by that statement was that bounty hunting hasn't been SUPPORTED in the way they intended and thus has not existed in CCP's intended way.
In short they're working on it and it'll be here SOONÖ
Ok...I can see that I guess. Writing fast in a chat window isn't the most conducive thing to clear prose.
That said I am still amazed at how longit has taken (and is still taking) as a workable bounty system would seem to me to be a prime way to inject action into the game. There are many players out there who live for PvP and I think this would serve to juice that up a great deal. I'll grant the solution for a workable bounty system may be difficult but EVE is pushing on a year old now. Guess I'm just a whiner who wants his SOONÖ now!
I dont think a viable bountyhunting systems is that easy...
First off, bounty hunting isnt worht the risk atm. Like someone already mentioned most of the higher bounty pirates are the experienced pvp'ers in this game and it takes quite a bit of tactics to separate them from their ship AND pod them to top it off.
If you raise the stakes and the bounties then you open a backdoor to exploiting the bounty system (ie pirate claiming his own bounty). NOt to mention that some people 'clonejump' at which point it becomes impossible to avoid losing your bounty.
A working bountysystem would be one that allows the bounty hunter to track his prey for one and would also have to somehow restrickt the claimability of a bounty...
When you think about it...its a tough nut to ***** ;)
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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W1rlW1nd
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Posted - 2004.04.29 03:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ulendar
I dont think a viable bountyhunting systems is that easy...
When you think about it...its a tough nut to ***** ;)
agreed with ulendar. the bounty system has been debated with many player suggestions since the game began, and even tho there have been a few novel ideas to improve it, nobody has been able to figure out a suitable method to change the bounty system so that it could not be exploited and thus be as useless (as it currently is).
it all boils down to this: if the bounty on a player is high enough, he gets a friend to kill him and they split the money. you are wasting your time if you put millions of your isk onto another player for boutny- you might as well just mail the moeny to him and save some time.
doesn't matter if there are bouty hunter licences, special agents for setting collecting bounty, security levels required, tracking isk trasnsactions, whatever. it all boils down to the same thing every time- the pirate can in some manner arrange to collect his own bounty himself in some round about method.
if u can readup on the other posts about the bounty system and see how difficult a problem this is.
there might be a way too implement boutny hunting properly as a profession but after many discussions on this topic i now doubt there is. i would be elated and impressed if someone could figure out how to do this.
the best i can figure- is make a character's 'death' have such a penalty that arranging your own death is not worth collecting the money (which is why bountys work in real life;).
maybe that is somehow the key- like the higher the bounty- the more skillpoints a character will lose (subtracted from clone points) if they die. so a bounty of 6million isk- could also incur 6million skill points lost;) wow, that pirate would avoid death at all cost then. but a system like that would be really unfair to pirates - as one by one they are basiclaly deleted from the eve universe when they die (reduced to 0 skillpoints).
maybe a slight skillpoint loss if pod-killed with a bouty? balanced for the amount of isk bounty proportional to skillpoints lost and can't be greater than 3/4 the total points? then a bountied player would not want to die at all and would fight hard to survive. neg-sec pirates and bounty hunters would have a helluva lot riding on their own survival then.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.04.29 03:51:00 -
[16]
Maybe they should jus make another server and call it 'Hard Core EVE'..
No clones, No insurance, No sentries, No concord
Get podded? Time to start a new char ^^
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2004.04.29 05:40:00 -
[17]
I AM a bounty hunter. Its just the way my personality works out. I love combat, but I don't do fleets. I tend to fight for the good side. Yep, bounty hunter.
And it sucks to be me. Theres no lack of pirates to fight and kill, but podding experienced pvp-ers in an EW ship is hard, and the money sucks.
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[/IMG]http://millerfam.org/eve/synapse_logo.jpg[/IMG]
Everyone deserves a chance to live.
My job is to make sure they get it. |
Demangel
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Posted - 2004.04.29 06:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Demangel on 29/04/2004 06:32:47
Ahh the good old days of NDA and beta... I remember sitting here with many other hopeful fans bathed in the glow of our monitors reading and posting on these forums somtimes for hours at a time wating for baited breath for beta testers or devs or ANYONE to drop a crumb of intel about the game for us to gleefully gobble up and wash down with tons of optimism.
Back in those days, I CLEARLY remember a LOT of hype about the bounty system! how it would be the end all be all of all MMOrPG bounty systems. How it would revolutionize that profession in the industry and make it a worthwhile endevour.
I remember clearly the modules and things CCP had in mind...
Ranging from tracking bugs to scanners to help you locate prey, to agents that would let you use a region wide service to track down offenders...
Probably the only suggestion I would make for making bounties more difficult to exploit would be:
Make two versions of bounty hunting: One being a casual version, where the bounty is whatever happens to be on the player at the time. This way if some do gooder manages to get a kill on a player rat, they get a small reward for the job well done.
The other version being the more professional version. This version would work like this:
Requirements:
1: Level 3 or higher Concord/DED agent.
2: Special Security clearance (high sec rating, say 2.0 or higher).
3: No detectable criminal connections (IE unless you have the fast talk skill maxed out, you shouldn't have any good relations with the NPC pirates).
4: No prior criminal actions (Assuming CCP finaly puts in some kind of criminal flagging system). This can be made to be time sensitive so minor accidents are overlooked, like accidentaly using a smart bomb near a gate while your drunk at the keyboard (oops).
5: your alts information, while invisible perhaps to players, should count, if any of your alts have connections with the player pirate you nab, you just get the basic bounty price.
now, that would make it a LOT harder for the casual alt to really get the required minimum to be a full fledged bounty hunter... sure it's still possible, but hey, if you ask me, thats fine... There must always be some kind of illegal fraud in the universe in my mind for it to be realistic. But it's a lot harder... And if a bounty hunter manages to make a deal with his prey to make some easy money, then good for him... I mean it's not like corporations or other players are always ethical people either... the other night I got offered 200K for something I know was worth 1 mil... I can't blame the guy for tryin.
So with all these added requirements what are the benefits of meeting them? simple:
A more dyunamic and responsive bounty payment which "Might" work like this:
Concord pays out the initial bounty price put on the players head by players. they then pay it again, thus effectively doubling the payout.
Based on skills and faction standings and security ratings, the hunter should also recieve more bonuses (to ensure they stay on the right side of the business).
The longer the pirate has gone without having his bounty collected, the higher the bounty becomes, BUT only for liscened bounty hunters... perhaps raising an additional 100K per week, or month that the player goes without being podded.
Some additional benefits only offered to liscensed hunters:
Any player, even those without player bounties will have a payout, IF the plyers Sec status and criminal flagging reveal they are a criminal on one level or another. Thus a player with -2.0 sec rating, who HAS committed a flagged crime but somehow improved thier rating is still a legit target for a liscensed hunter.
A bounty hunter CAN attack players with such criminal status in high sec space. Prodiving no innocents are harmed.
A bounty hunter will be assigned a SPECIAL tracking agent. This agent will be used to locate a player just like it does now, however you can use this service from any station in the game. Meaning you don't need to go and dock at your agents station to find out where a player is hiding, you dock at ANY station and comunicate. you won't get mission offers, but you will be able to ask for the location of a player.
Lastly the bounty hunter with a valid liscense could buy special tracking bugs from these agents, which would simply need to be jettisoned in space (no module needed). you click on the bug in your cargo bay and target a ship, and like a drone you command it to attach itself to the target. the player tagged can discover the tag if they repair thier ship and remove it for a cost. You then get a list in your bookmarks for tagged players and ships... :)
Oh well it's just an idea :)
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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Dison Janz
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Posted - 2004.04.29 15:02:00 -
[19]
You spelled spaghetti wrong.
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