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heavy missiles vs small size targets

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daleah	Posted - 2008.02.18 22:46:00 - [1] ok so i finally got some l2 agents open and started doing the missions but they take my like 1hour each since heavy missiles only do 20-30 damage on small targets (and once in a million times they do 150-180) should i change my approach (caracal 2x drones) somehow, or weaponry? i cant really use the drones currently since if im in their range i get shot down really fast, im currently just keeping range at 40-50km running the AB and just flying away from the targets, it works but takes ages 5x heavy, shield booster, pds, bcs, AB in a caracal
Marine HK4861 Caldari Radical Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.18 22:49:00 - [2] For level 2 missions, try using Assault launchers (not heavy assault). Try changing your tanking setup from a shield booster to a pair of large shield extenders and some resistance modules.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2008.02.18 22:59:00 - [3] Heavy missiles are made to shoot cruisers and above, much like medium guns (but not quite). You can increase your damage potential with skills and mods, but it's often better to use Assault Launchers as they're designed to hit frigs. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
daleah	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:01:00 - [4] thanks for the tips, this a fair bit more enjoyable now :)
ceyriot Minmatar Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.02.19 00:49:00 - [5] i use heavy missles, i find they work just fine against targets of all size...ppl tell me to use assault missles, but i figure why change what works best...oh, F'nog for emperor. ----- CEO - Crimson Rebellion
Jameroz Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.19 02:24:00 - [6] Originally by: ceyriot i use heavy missles, i find they work just fine against targets of all size...ppl tell me to use assault missles, but i figure why change what works best... Assault Missile would be Heavy Assault Missile... Assault Launcher shoots standard missiles and thus works better against frigates If you insist using Heavy Missiles or even Heavy Assault Missiles against frigates you can increase their damage with Guided Missile Precision skill and Target painters.
Falka Lakadaka Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.19 04:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Jameroz If you insist using Heavy Missiles or even Heavy Assault Missiles against frigates you can increase their damage with Guided Missile Precision skill and Target painters. This is very handy for Level 4 missions as you have a variety of different target sizes, but as stated assault missiles will be much more effective against mainly frigates with the occasional cruiser. Cheers Falka ________________________________________ Check out the Guides Sticky for answers to many questions
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:11:00 - [8] I'm working L3 missions with a Drake and I switch to a 5/2 setup with a Heavy/Assault split and it made a big difference, especially on things like the "Dire" frig. NPC's
Xindi Kraid Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.19 05:41:00 - [9] Originally by: ceyriot i use heavy missles, i find they work just fine against targets of all size...ppl tell me to use assault missles, but i figure why change what works best...oh, F'nog for emperor. Would you by any chance be trained in skills that reduce the expolsion size and increase the explosion velocity? --Bird of Prey: Forum God 1. War 2. 3. Profit
Amoun Ra Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.19 07:17:00 - [10] Try using 3 assult launchers and 2 heavy launchers it worked like a charm while doing level 2 mission with my caracal
Poreuomai Minmatar Naval Protection Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.02.19 13:44:00 - [11] Poreuomai goes and investigates assault launchers.
Izumein	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:23:00 - [12] Yet another area of the game where moving to the biggest "____" available ASAP doesn't necessarily give better results. In Level 2's use the assaults. The heavies sound better but against frigates they'll generally hit for 1/4 what the standard missles would. Throw on a shield extender and rat specific hardener too. I don't know why you'd be getting shot down as soon as you get in drone range.
Jim Nakamura Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:54:00 - [13] This kind of thing is why the missile/turret guides on the main website here should be mandatory reading...
Witchking Minmatar British Federation Sleepless Knights Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.19 20:50:00 - [14] Have a look at this excelent guide on the main EVE site HERE wk.
Sir Ibex	Posted - 2008.02.19 23:53:00 - [15] Welcome to the club man. I am having the same exact problem with missiles. I am still a newb but when I was even more newbish, I didnt notice the new citizens Q&A so I went straight to ship setups forum. There, most people recommend using heavy missiles on BOTH the caracal and drake. An occasional guy will mention assault launchers, but most go "heavy". This is very misleading to a newb... No one should be using all heavy missiles in level 2 missions, unless they trained up "guided missile precision" and "missile projection" to at least level 4 prior to doing these missions. I use 2 heavy missile launchers for cruisers and the rest are assault launchers on my Caracal. I find these level 2 missions to be extremely tedious, long and boring because I am lacking the necessary skills to have a satisfying experience with these missions. This is partially why I don't like the mission system in EVE. You have these missions.... But the game wont tell you how high your skills should be to handle each one. You wont even get a hint. You have to figure everything by yourself. Read forums, talk to people, whatever it takes... The tutorial is virtually non existent here, and does very little to help people learn the ropes of combat. PS: If you want we can do the level 2 missions together. Contact me in game if you are interested.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.20 04:32:00 - [16] I use a Caracal, Heavy Missiles (for the range) and a target painter. I have no problems with frigates.
ceyriot Minmatar Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.02.20 04:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Originally by: ceyriot i use heavy missles, i find they work just fine against targets of all size...ppl tell me to use assault missles, but i figure why change what works best...oh, F'nog for emperor. Would you by any chance be trained in skills that reduce the expolsion size and increase the explosion velocity? I have no clue, i only have about 400k SP in missles though. --- CEO - Crimson Rebellion
Melme Rahka Minmatar Vulcan Foundry	Posted - 2008.02.20 09:04:00 - [18] Edited by: Melme Rahka on 20/02/2008 09:08:04 3 assault/2 heavy is ok, since heavies do good damage to cruisers, destroyers and sentry turrets. While cruisers are not that common in lvl 2s, destroyers and sentries are. Also, Assault launchers tend to be very cheap, even Arbalest variation is about 200-350k, as opposed to other arbalests which are priced in millions. I even used them in lvl 3s untill my drone skills got higher so that they can handle frig swarms on their own. Anyway, since assaults are actually light missiles, you will need to get within 25 km range (depending on your skills), so drones will be in range, and you need to get get your tank up, shield extenders and shield hardeners help a lot. Edit: Game won't tell you what skills you need, but you can get a rough idea by the ISK and LP reward: if it is double your last, it means that the missions is roughly twice as hard. Also, there is usually a little icon on the mission description which shows you what faction are the rats you will meet (if there is no icon, it is probably mercenary which do all damage types). Each faction has low resists in one or two areas, and does 2 types of damage, so you can prepare.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Melme Rahka Also, Assault launchers tend to be very cheap, even Arbalest variation is about 200-350k, as opposed to other arbalests which are priced in millions. I even used them in lvl 3s untill my drone skills got higher so that they can handle frig swarms on their own. Anyway, since assaults are actually light missiles, you will need to get within 25 km range (depending on your skills), so drones will be in range, and you need to get get your tank up, shield extenders and shield hardeners help a lot. They are cheap, this is why they are great. You can get a full rack of 'arbalest' assault missile launchers for less than one 'arbalest' or the 2nd named heavy launcher. Also, for the range, with caldari cruiser, missile projection and missile bombardment at 2 (this is fast to get skills to 2), you should hit at 30 km (if the target is not fleeing). With some more skills, you can get over 40 km easy (the cruiser, projection and bombardment skills at 4 will give you 50 km) and the theoric maximum with all at 5 is around 63 km. So, using assault missiles in level 2 missions should not be a range issue with just one day of training. Another good thing about assault missile launchers : -They use less CPU -They use less powergrid Which means you have more for your tank, you can go for an 2 extender and 2 hardener tank (and an AB not to be too slow) that will last for enough time to complete a lvl 2. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Jim Nakamura Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:01:00 - [20] Small missiles vs. heavy targets still do full damage, don't they? In which case wouldn't it be better, on missions with mixed enemy types, to go for a full rack of assault launchers? You'd lose a little damage and range, but surely it'd be compensated for doing full damage vs. all small targets, instead of trying to go half-and-half small and large to cover all your options?
Caelus Heliodromus	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:25:00 - [21] It depends, as that "small" change in damage can have a larger increase than you anticipate. The DPS you're able to put out is important, but on the bigger targets what is ultimately important is the amount by which your DPS outstrip its ability to tank. So, if you're doing 150 DPS, and the enemy cruiser can tank 125 DPS (totally arbitrary numbers), your effective DPS is 25. A reduction of 10 DPS (again, arbitrary number) reduces total DPS by ~6.5%, but effective DPS by 40%. I, myself, have never used a split weapons platform, as a relatively minimal investment in drones (275k for V in Drones and a few levels in Scout Drone Ops and Drone Interfacing) can do wonders. But I can see the argument for it if you have trouble with cruisers.
Izumein	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:41:00 - [22] True, but that same argument is why I wouldn't split between heavies and assaults. A full load of assaults on a target would help knock down the tank better than a mix of a few heavies on it and a few assaults on a different smaller target. I suppose either can be effective, but I went full assaults for level 2's and didn't have a problem.
Goa Vibe	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Goa Vibe on 20/02/2008 19:53:55 mixing heavy missiles with assault missiles is MIXING RANGES generally bad advice all the way around.... Assault missiles will do more damage than heavy missiles simply because you sacrifice alot of range for more dps. however Assault missiles have the exact same disadvantage as heavy missiles, their explosion radius is 125m, so if you are trying to pop frigs with a signature of 50m, you are going to be doing much less damage... a target painter can up that signature to like 65m but still far from doing less than minimal damage. A contemporary analogy, you are basically trying to shoot fighter aircraft with a 200mm battleship cannon... I think in history, someone actually did that successfully... ONCE switch to a missile with a smaller explosion radius: ie LIGHT MISSILES. i think the confusion here is between assault missiles and assault launchers. assault missiles (ie: terror assault missile) are HEAVY missiles with short range. They actually do a bit less damage (100) than a heavy missile (ie: thunderbolt 150 damage). The advantage is you have a much higher rate of fire. assault missiles are beefier versions of LIGHT missile launchers - first they hold about twice as many missiles so you dont have to reload as often, and have a higher rate of fire than a standard missile launcher.... but they both use light missiles.... which do full or nearly full damage to frigs... light missiles have a base exp radius of 50m... assault missiles and heavy missile... 125m and read the player guide as to why this is... http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_3.asp once you have great missile skills... your heavy missiles and assault missiles will do alot more damage vs frigs ... so much that it's really not worth using light missile ammo against them.. you'll want to use either all heavy missiles or assault missiles.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:36:00 - [24] I run L3s in a Drake with 7 Heavy Launchers. Use your Drones to deal with Frigates, or drop a Webifier on it and web them.

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