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ICHEM Bond Auction - 1.5bn

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zelseus Minmatar The Independant Jack	Posted - 2008.02.20 10:29:00 - [31] 100 @ 1.15m
Xulton Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:17:00 - [32] 200 @ 1.10M isk each
jna Caldari Black Ash Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:08:00 - [33] Now that I think I've got the hang of it , put me down for 500m at 1.1 ------------------------------------------------- When Carebears Attack! <-- Hulk PvP video
Ahn Riane Blue Star Surveying and Mapping Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:54:00 - [34] Edited by: Ahn Riane on 20/02/2008 14:55:29 Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 20/02/2008 08:18:52 Originally by: Ahn Riane Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'll be watching closely, but this auction is rather sensitive to bid increases. Going up to 1.05m per bond reduces the return to less than 5% per month, and I won't be interested if I have to pay a price equivalent to less than 7% return per month, as that's matched by reasonably safe investments elsewhere. wrong math its more than 8%. Actually you are both wrong The correct figures are :- 1.05 = 9.52% 1.10 = 9.09% 1.20 = 8.33% These figures really ought to stimulate bidding a bit!! This is harder to understand than rocket sience! If I pay 1.05m ISK for one bond and receive 1.4m ISK after 4 month, thats 0.35m Isk profit. 0.35/1.05 = 33.333%. 33% /4 = 8.3333%.
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Ambo on 20/02/2008 16:25:33 You actually recieve 50,000 ISK per share each 2 weeks. If you buy for 1.05mil, that works out roughly as a return per month of 1,050,000 / 100,000 = 9.52% Edited for lack of decimal places... -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:29:00 - [36] Edited by: FastLearner on 20/02/2008 19:32:21 Not sure which of you is correct. OP says "Coupon (Interest): 10% per month (paid at 5% every 2 weeks)." Which is ambiguous - as it could be 5% per 2 weeks or it could be 10% per month. What % you get as a return is obviously significantly different depending on which you believe is the case. 5% per 2 weeks is about 10.89% per month (assuming an average month length of 30.5 days). EDIT: Ambo - your calculation is sort of wrong. Although you're technically correct about the return per month, you're not factoring in that you lose 50m after 4 months when the bond closes.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.02.20 19:57:00 - [37] Well there are two issues now that I read through everything. First, will this definitely run for 4 months? If it runs for less then it significantly reduces the monthly ROI if you pay over 1 mil per. So it seems this should have a set length of 4 months, not a variable length with a max of 4 months. Otherwise people could wind up paying 1.1 mil per and you pay back the bonds at 1.05 mil after half a month for example. Thus you've earned .05 mil per bond and the investor has lost that much. Second, to all the people doing calculations. The question of 5% bi-weekly or 10% monthly is meaningless. In the end it will pay back at best 1.4 mil per bond in 4 months. So all calcs should be based off of this (assuming it is guaranteed to last 4 months). So if you pay 1.1 mil per you are getting 1.4-1.1 =.3 mil per in 4 months. If you pay 1 mil you get .4 mil per in 4 months. Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Roguehalo Caldari RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2008.02.20 20:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Roguehalo Edited by: Roguehalo on 20/02/2008 08:18:52 Originally by: Ahn Riane Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'll be watching closely, but this auction is rather sensitive to bid increases. Going up to 1.05m per bond reduces the return to less than 5% per month, and I won't be interested if I have to pay a price equivalent to less than 7% return per month, as that's matched by reasonably safe investments elsewhere. wrong math its more than 8%. Actually you are both wrong The correct figures are :- 1.05 = 9.52% 1.10 = 9.09% 1.20 = 8.33% These figures really ought to stimulate bidding a bit!! My figures are incorrect. Apologies to anybody who based their bidding decision on them
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.20 22:24:00 - [39] Originally by: Shadarle Well there are two issues now that I read through everything. First, will this definitely run for 4 months? If it runs for less then it significantly reduces the monthly ROI if you pay over 1 mil per. So it seems this should have a set length of 4 months, not a variable length with a max of 4 months. Otherwise people could wind up paying 1.1 mil per and you pay back the bonds at 1.05 mil after half a month for example. Thus you've earned .05 mil per bond and the investor has lost that much. If the bond redeems early it will pay 1m per bond (the par value) plus any unpaid interest. What I'm trying to get across (maybe not so well) is that anyone who buys a bond will get 1.4m each. If ICHEM pays it back early you still get 1.4m - just quicker. It's pretty unlikely I would early redeem of course but wanted to have the option. Originally by: Shadarle Second, to all the people doing calculations. The question of 5% bi-weekly or 10% monthly is meaningless. In the end it will pay back at best 1.4 mil per bond in 4 months. So all calcs should be based off of this (assuming it is guaranteed to last 4 months). So if you pay 1.1 mil per you are getting 1.4-1.1 =.3 mil per in 4 months. If you pay 1 mil you get .4 mil per in 4 months. The interest on the bond is 10% per month. This is paid in ISK in installments twice per month. But you're also right that the total return on the bond includes any discount/premium paid upfront. The way I would work this out is simply how much you get back over how much you invested. So if you pay 1.10m per bond: 1.4m (total return paid) / 1.1m (invested) = 27% total return. I divide that by the 4 month life and you get 7% per month. Thanks to everyone for bidding so far. It's appreciate the support and I'm glad that this experiment in market pricing seems to be working out relatively well. If anyone is unclear what's going on please ask! Cheers
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.20 23:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Polvek Tybor on 20/02/2008 23:13:07 Quick update then. Per my counting the following are the currently winning bids: 1. Zelseus 100 bonds @ 1.15m each 2. Xulton 200 bonds @ 1.10m each 4. Ahn Riane 100 bonds @ 1.05m each 4. Raskor 50 bonds @ 1.05m each 5. Roguehalo 100 bonds @ 1.02m each 7. Ambo 475 bonds (out of 550 bid) @ 1.01m each 7. Treelox 475 bonds (out of 650 bid) @ 1.01m each [Thanks BTW!] The settlement price would be 1.01m each (the lowest winning bid) which all the winners will pay and equates to a return of: 1.4m / 1.01 = 38.6% 38.6 / 4 = 9.65% per month As you can see, since Ambo and Treelox both bid the same price I've allocated the remaining bonds equally.
Roguehalo Caldari RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2008.02.20 23:22:00 - [41] Edited by: Roguehalo on 20/02/2008 23:22:39
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.21 00:09:00 - [42] Edited by: Treelox on 21/02/2008 00:09:54 550 @ 1.03 --
Raskor	Posted - 2008.02.21 03:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Polvek Tybor Quick update then. Per my counting the following are the currently winning bids: 5. Ahn Riane 100 bonds @ 1.05m each 5. Raskor 50 bonds @ 1.05m each The settlement price would be 1.01m each (the lowest winning bid) which all the winners will pay and equates to a return of: Not to quibble, but my bid was in well before Ahn's so why is her bid listed before mine?
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.21 07:45:00 - [44] Originally by: Raskor Not to quibble, but my bid was in well before Ahn's so why is her bid listed before mine? You're listed joint fifth - the actual order is just random though. In case of a tie I intend to allocate remaining bonds equally among those tieing (per Ambo and Treelox). This seemed fair and in the spirit of the auction. It doesn't matter how many bonds you want or when you bid (as long as it's before 1200 Sunday) - the only determinant is price. But if you guys think that's not fair then we can discuss. Thanks for the bid by the way.
Banni Vinda The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.21 13:03:00 - [45] Might I suggest that if you wish to split orders that are equally matched in price, you do it weighted by each order volume. Otherwise I could match Treelox's latest bid (550 @ 1.03) with my own (1 @ 1.03), and we would both get a 50% split of shares in that price bracket. It would be better if it were split like: Treelox: 550 / (550 + 1) * num_shares_to_split Me: 1 / (550 + 1) * num_shares_to_split Make sense?
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.21 14:25:00 - [46] Originally by: Banni Vinda Might I suggest that if you wish to split orders that are equally matched in price, you do it weighted by each order volume. It does seem unfair to punish the higher volume bid disproportionately to a lower volume bid at the same price. If the tie situation arises I would intend to weight by volume as you suggest. Would anyone have a problem with that? Sorry to be setting the rules mid-auction. At least this debate might establish some accepted 'rules' for similar auctions in the future.
Manalapan	Posted - 2008.02.22 08:28:00 - [47] I would like to offer 100M @ 1.0M
Killer2 Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.22 08:52:00 - [48] 500 @ 1.10 Please advise via evemail if I'm successful.
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.22 19:59:00 - [49] Current status: 1. Zelseus 100 @ 1.15m 4. Xulton 200 @ 1.10m 4. Jna 500 @ 1.10m 4. Killer2 500 @ 1.10m 6. Raskor 50 @ 1.05m 6. Ahn 100 @ 1.05m 7. Treelox 50 (out of 550 bid) @ 1.03m This would result in a settlement price of 1.03m, payable by all the bidders above, and result in a yield to maturity of 9% per month.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.23 13:00:00 - [50] 1000 @ 1.11m. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Raskor	Posted - 2008.02.24 06:41:00 - [51] Increasing my bid to 50 @ 1.11m per
Xulton Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.24 07:23:00 - [52] increasing my bid to 250 @ 1.15mil
Ahn Riane Blue Star Surveying and Mapping Zzz	Posted - 2008.02.24 07:46:00 - [53] Edited by: Ahn Riane on 24/02/2008 07:46:59 Change my bid to 100 @ 1.11m Isk
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:35:00 - [54] The deadline has now passed which means the auction is officially over. By my reckoning the following are the winning bids: 2. Zelseus 100 @ 1.15m 2. Xulton 250 @ 1.15m 4. Ahn 100 @ 1.11m 4. Raskor 50 @ 1.11m 7. Kazuo 286 (of 400 bid) @ 1.10m 7. jna 357 (of 500 bid) @ 1.10m 7. Killer2 357 (of 500 bid) @ 1.10m The final settlement price is 1.10m per bond equating to a yield to maturity of 6.82% per month. If the winning bidders could transfer the following amounts of ISK to Polvek at their first convenience then I will send you the bond note. Zelseus 100 @ 1.10m = 110m ISK Xulton 250 @ 1.10m = 275m ISK Ahn 100 @ 1.10m = 110m ISK Raskor 50 @ 1.10m = 55m ISK Kazuo 286 (of 400 bid) @ 1.10m = 314.6m ISK jna 357 (of 500 bid) @ 1.10m = 392.7m ISK Killer2 357 (of 500 bid) @ 1.10m = 392.7m ISK Many thanks for the support. I'll do my utmost to deliver on ICHEM's promises. Updated financial statements for the last 2 weeks are being prepared and will be posted later. Regards Polvek
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.02.24 15:46:00 - [55] If one of the above listed 7 does not pay in a timely fashion, and those that atm are only getting their partial bid upon quantity, get theirs filled to their full asking lot. Would this mean that I get any leftovers, at 1.03m ea? Would this then also mean that you would have to refund the difference of 0.07m, to everyone else who had paid 1.10m? Just checking if I should keep checking the thread. --
Polvek Tybor Imperial Chemical Industries	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:48:00 - [56] If some of the winners renege on their bids then I propose that the following actions be be taken: 1. Offer the untaken bonds to existing winners at the settlement price. 2. Offer them to unsuccessful bidders at the settlement price - first come first served. 3. If it's not too many then just don't issue those bonds at all. 4. Offer them to unsuccessful bidders at a lower price (and refund everyone else the difference). I hope this sounds reasonable. In this case the issue is over-subscribed by 400m bonds so it hopefully won't arise. Thanks for the bids Treelox. I hate to turn your money down (temporarily) but it's important for me to build the business (and investor trust) gradually. Hopefully I'll have room to expand and issues further bonds in due course and I'd be glad to take your cash.

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