EVE Search - Thorax the good old question.. (med guns vs 1600mm plate)

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Thorax the good old question.. (med guns vs 1600mm plate)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:05:00 - [1] Edited by: General Coochie on 19/02/2008 15:16:35 1600 mm plate or med guns or why not both? Never really flown the thorax much, few times only. About to setup one now when I can use T2 med hybrids for some fun and I was thinking. 5 * Electrons II (Null / Faction Am) web, disruptor II, mwd 1600mm plate, EANM II, DCU, mag stab II, RCU II about 250/300 dps from guns. (+ potentially 100 - 150 from drones) 25k effective hp. compared to Ion setup with two magstabs and 800mm plate 80 dps less (25%) 6k more hp (30%) compared to 1600mm with t2 small guns. (2EANMs) 120-150 more dps (50%) 5k less hp (20%) Comparing setups I think electrons + 1600mm plate would win over the other 2. It would omg pwn the light guns thorax for sure even with null loaded at close range. But how would it perform in general. Only downside I see is this ship turning and accelerating like a brick. So what do you think? ECM drones or dps drones in bay. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Annowyn Clan'Destine	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Annowyn on 19/02/2008 15:09:48 Do not fit small guns on cruisers. It will accelerate quick enough, and turn fast enough to stil be a viable pvp ship. I think some people may even call it cookie-cutter? EDIT: Referring to your first setup.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Annowyn Edited by: Annowyn on 19/02/2008 15:09:48 Do not fit small guns on cruisers. Well. I'd partially agree. I don't see anything wrong with fitting small guns on a cruiser without relevant gunnery bonuses (like the maller or arbitrator) if it means you can excel at something else (like heavy tackling, E-war or something). But I've always felt that putting small guns on the thorax was akin to not putting large pulses/beams on an armageddon. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:18:00 - [4] Edited by: General Coochie on 19/02/2008 15:22:07 Edited by: General Coochie on 19/02/2008 15:21:32 Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Annowyn Edited by: Annowyn on 19/02/2008 15:09:48 Do not fit small guns on cruisers. Well. I'd partially agree. I don't see anything wrong with fitting small guns on a cruiser without relevant gunnery bonuses (like the maller or arbitrator) if it means you can excel at something else (like heavy tackling, E-war or something). But I've always felt that putting small guns on the thorax was akin to not putting large pulses/beams on an armageddon. Same here I think small blasters is blasphemy on the thorax, especially when you can fit a 1600mm plate with med guns. I'm advocating the setup I mention first. Whats of interest is how it would fare against a ruppy, a ruppy like the one garmon flies in his video. With 220mm vulcans, small nos, small neut, 1600 plate and 2 gyros. I also believe passive tankin a cruiser is superior to active tank especially a thorax as it cannot sustain a med repper. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:30:00 - [5] It's really quite simple. Optimal skills? Electrons and 1600 plate, neutrons and 3 magstabs or some special build. Decent gunnery? Electrons and 800 plate. Very low skills/Drone skills? Small neutrons and 1600 plates. Postcount: 810822
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:34:00 - [6] Originally by: NoNah It's really quite simple. Optimal skills? Electrons and 1600 plate, neutrons and 3 magstabs or some special build. Decent gunnery? Electrons and 800 plate. Very low skills/Drone skills? Small neutrons and 1600 plates. I might be stupid and missed some important post in other thoraxes threads. But I thought I came up with something most ppl seemed to overlook here (as some ppl so strongly advocate some setups). Guess its one of the better setups then. Oh well if it was common sense all ready , lulz at me. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Arazel Chainfire United System's Commonwealth	Posted - 2008.02.19 21:37:00 - [7] the reason why most people use the small guns on it is because of A. cap, and B. powergrid C. small t2 guns are easy to train (they take what, a week?) whereas med t2 guns are a bit tougher (a, need the small guns, and then they need another week and a half to 2 weeks to train up on top of that) Cap on a thorax isn't all that great - as you said, there is no way that it can run the medium armor repairer, and it can have some other difficulties (3 mids, either you have no point, now web, or no cap booster). Next is powergrid - you had to put on an RCU to fit that. People like being able to fit the ship as the designers "intended" - meaning no fitting modules used. That being said, if I took a thorax out i would probably go out guns blazing with neutrons and max mag stabs, with a dcu+(plate or eanm) tank. Some ships just aren't meant to be tanked (yes, this is also how i planned to use my demios... then it got blobbed at a gatecamp and it didn't matter what i fit). Your fit looks good, but just letting you know why the small guns are used at all. -Arazel
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.19 21:44:00 - [8] Real Men Damage Tank (tm) Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Drones_Active=Hammerhead II,5 Tanking a Thorax is an irrelevant question, as no matter what "tank" you try to fit, you will still die quickly. Therefore you simply fit for as much damage as possible and kill your target before he can even lock you to start shooting. But if you insist.... The 1600mm plate/small-gun setup is very poor, outside of a narrow window. Since it's fairly easy to start with T2 small guns, there is a short time where you have the skills to fit a 1600mm plate/small-gun Thorax, but not a proper medium gun Thorax. It isn't really a good setup so much as a temporary one to upgrade from asap. If you are going to fit a tank, there is only one option: 1600mm plate/heavy electrons. 1600mm plate/RCU gives you more HP over the duration of your average Thorax fight than the 800mm plate/MAR setup, so there is no reason to drop to the smaller plate.
Dro The SMITE Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.02.19 21:56:00 - [9] 5 light neutron blaster II(faction ammo) 1 mwd 1 disruptor II 1 medium cap booster(800's) 1 medium rep II 1 1600 tungsten 3 active hardener (Exp,Ther,Kin) 5 hammerhead II =P
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.02.20 00:47:00 - [10] Edited by: General Coochie on 20/02/2008 00:50:01 Thanks a lot for the feedback. Small guns without a web and a plate, I don't like it. Your slow, cant keep target in range, and your range on gun sucks. Yeah dmg is nizzle and thats what the thorax do. however The neutron setup deals 120 more dps (25%) 489 vs 610 with max skills, but has 12k less effective HP (50% less). I know these % doesn't prove what setup is best. But I still think that 12k more HP is very useful for many reasons. You are less agile with the plate of course. Living longer means more dps dealt, of course if you got a jammer in gang you might not need a plate. Have you seen the video garmonation by garmon in the videos section? He kills vagas and other HACs in his rupture. He uses a 1600mm plate + 4 * 220mm ACs and thats how I got the idea. The rax setup I posted will have a bit more hp buffer, more dps then the ruppy, however it won't be able to choose dmg type except if switching drones. It also doesn't have a small neut and small nos like he has but from watching I don't see the benefit he gets from it even if I realize it will matter in some cases. Thorax is more vulnerable to neuting as it relies on cap for firing. I also don't think a cap booster is needed as long as you aren't neuted much. In fact a lv V skilled rax is even cap stable with the setup posted if it isn't running the MWD. In most cases I think passive tank fails before cap. But I don't know haven't gotten around flying it yet, got a few days training left. The Vigil and The Caracal (duo PvP movie)
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.20 00:59:00 - [11] 1600mm plates and small guns on a 'rax are by and large a hangover from the days when you could launch 8 heavy drones from one and your only duty was to pin the target and live long enough for the drones to do their thing. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.20 01:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Real Men Damage Tank (tm) Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II,Void M Drones_Active=Hammerhead II,5 I absolutely totally love having a few of those in gang, although ECM drones are incredibly handy when taking on BS in 2-3 of these ;) Btw, why not Navy Antimatter? The guys who I've flown with (who fly full-out damage Thoraxes) prefer it to Void. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
benzss Twisted Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.20 02:07:00 - [13] Edited by: benzss on 20/02/2008 02:08:54 Edited by: benzss on 20/02/2008 02:08:27 I find the tanked thorax to be daft, as all it'll do is defeat other cruisers, and even then you'd have to be careful with ruptures and vexors. It'll never (it SHOULD never, heh) beat a BC as it simply won't do enough damage. The gank thorax, though, will melt pretty much all cruisers down before they melt you down, and this is even more likely if you have ECM drones; not to mention the fact that even one or two lucky jams against a BC can push the fight real close. The fit you suggested is semi-viable since it achieves similar DPS to that which the typical tank (light guns) thorax gets WITH drones, so with your setup you'd be free to use ECM drones... I dunno, it looks solid in theory but i'd still fancy 500 dps of gank to win in a 1v1 and be more viable for taking down bigger targets. tbh i generally fly ships with nice tanks, so my cruiser of choice is the vexor, and that'll still put out a good 450 dps with a 1600mm plate. i figure the thorax is only useful (next to the vexor) if you're gonna damage tank. but that's just my taste.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.02.20 02:33:00 - [14] I'd say it's ok to fit small guns and a 1600 plate on a Vexor, but not a Thorax. -Liang -- My new keyboard is awesome... I can type again (beware Eve-O spreaders of misinformation!)
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Cpt Branko I absolutely totally love having a few of those in gang, although ECM drones are incredibly handy when taking on BS in 2-3 of these ;) ECM drones are a good alternative. I just prefer damage drones in this case, but it's really just personal preference. Quote: Btw, why not Navy Antimatter? The guys who I've flown with (who fly full-out damage Thoraxes) prefer it to Void. Forgot to change it, that's all. If you have easy access to faction antimatter, use it, it's better than Void in every way.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.02.20 05:21:00 - [16] Thorax with 1600mm plate and small guns no Vexor with same very much so sir
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.02.20 05:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Stuart Price 1600mm plates and small guns on a 'rax are by and large a hangover from the days when you could launch 8 heavy drones from one and your only duty was to pin the target and live long enough for the drones to do their thing. Ahh the memories :D
keiiko netsova	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:12:00 - [18] The issue with the electron thorax is the same IMO as with the electron brutix - if you come up against a neutron thorax or brutix, they will keep you at 3k and laug - where you do 50% of your dps, and they do 80% of their much higher dps. if they can maintain this situation (which they can due to greater agility and webbed MWD bursts), you die. Neutrons also have an advantage in that they can hurt med autocannon setups somewhat, when loaded with null. Electrons won't. It's also easy to tell when you're flying against an electron blastership by starting at 3k and moving in.
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.02.20 14:53:00 - [19] Seriously, I never understood why people even bother with this "choice". If you're gonna plate a thorax you'll be forced to use small guns, hence you lose that dmg bonus and your main dmg is then drones. So, if you wanna 1600mm plate something and use drones + small guns for dmg, then use a vexor. It does it 100 times better. Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Wideen Seriously, I never understood why people even bother with this "choice". If you're gonna plate a thorax you'll be forced to use small guns, hence you lose that dmg bonus and your main dmg is then drones. So, if you wanna 1600mm plate something and use drones + small guns for dmg, then use a vexor. It does it 100 times better. RCUs are your friend. 1600mm plate/heavy electrons fits with one RCU, and gives you a better tank than electrons with 800mm plate/MAR.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.