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Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 17:49:00 - [1] Well I've gotten into a Retriever and things have drastically changed from running my Osprey and I've got a few questions/problems. 1) Before when mining in my Osprey it would take several cycles to fill up a GSC, now my Retriever only takes like 2 cycles before I've got enough ore to fill the GSC. This requires a LOT of warping and ship exchanging which completely sucks. If I just fill my Retriever's hold then its one cycle and warp back and empty my cargo. If I use a jetcan than I have to deal with can flippers. Are there any cans larger than a GSC that I could use for mining that will foil flippers? Yes I'm aware of hauling alts, but I think it blows I have to pay for a second account to mine efficiently when there isn't a corpmate to haul for me. 2) What he heck is with the Covetor? I mean you need Mining Barge V an Astrogeology V to fly it and it only takes a couple days (29 hours for my character) after that to be in a Hulk. Why would I ever fly a Covetor when I can wait 2 days, save the approximately 20 million it costs, and buy myself a Hulk? I don't get why anyone would fly it except for not being able to afford a Hulk. Then again if you're going for the Hulk you've got at least a month of training between the Retriever and being able to fly a Covetor, then another 2 days for Exhumers III. You should be able to scrounge up 130 million ISK by then or $14.95 for a GTC to sell for ISK to get your Hulk. 3) When not mining with friends I have to mine solo what is the most efficient way to mine solo now that I have a Barge? Drop it in a GSC (gives me about 3 cycles before it and my hold are full), drop it in a jet can and haul it with my industrial (flippers become a PITA with this method), or just warp back and forth emptying my hold?
Suncats Shadow Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:20:00 - [2] Congrats on getting into to the Retriever. 1) No there is no larger can that the GSC and with the up coming patch you will need to make sure that you use them at least once a month or they will be removed. The only other way to decrease the losers who are can flippers, is to get out of the high traffic system that are around the hubs. 2) The Covetor use to be the top line barge before the Hulks came out. Now that they are here and the required time to train up exhumer skill to get into a Hulk is really small. Therefore I would just stay in the Retriever and train right up to the Hulk. Not sure why CCP did not make the requirements for a Hulk a bit more, so that using the Covetor would still be an option. 3) If you are not mining with a dedicated hauler type and still in systems where you need to worry about the loser can flippers, then I would go with cargo expanders in your lows to increase the cargo size. Then just mine until you are full and haul back to the station. You can find systems farther out from hubs and agent running systems; which will have almost no can flippers. In that case you can jet can and then haul when the can is full. Good luck on your mining business.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Suncats Shadow Congrats on getting into to the Retriever. 1) No there is no larger can that the GSC and with the up coming patch you will need to make sure that you use them at least once a month or they will be removed. The only other way to decrease the losers who are can flippers, is to get out of the high traffic system that are around the hubs. 2) The Covetor use to be the top line barge before the Hulks came out. Now that they are here and the required time to train up exhumer skill to get into a Hulk is really small. Therefore I would just stay in the Retriever and train right up to the Hulk. Not sure why CCP did not make the requirements for a Hulk a bit more, so that using the Covetor would still be an option. 3) If you are not mining with a dedicated hauler type and still in systems where you need to worry about the loser can flippers, then I would go with cargo expanders in your lows to increase the cargo size. Then just mine until you are full and haul back to the station. You can find systems farther out from hubs and agent running systems; which will have almost no can flippers. In that case you can jet can and then haul when the can is full. Good luck on your mining business. Thanks for the reply, I've already started looking for some systems that are more off the beaten path of Caldari Space. However I'm not sure whether or not to move to a place that has Kernite or Omber in high sec space and try my hand at minig that. They really need a container that is a cross between a jetcan and a secure container. Make it twice as tough as a Jet can, hold the same amount as a jetcan, give it a password lock, and let it expire in 2 hours. Set the cost to 50k ISK. The flippers are foiled from easy money that way.
Yargo Metash Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Cygnus Scott They really need a container that is a cross between a jetcan and a secure container. Make it twice as tough as a Jet can, hold the same amount as a jetcan, give it a password lock, and let it expire in 2 hours. Set the cost to 50k ISK. The flippers are foiled from easy money that way. Jetcan mining is risk<->reward, while I agree that a GSC is worthless for anything other than frig mining (My Scythe was able to mine almost as much as my retriever) I don't want to make jetcan mining too easy. I don't like hauler alts either, so having a goodly hauler in station and then jumping in that to empty your can is my preferred method. Leaves me a bit vulnerable, but keeps me on my toes. As for Covetors, if you can spare the minerals to make one, I don't see a reason to not buy a BPC on the cheap and make one to use. At least it'll get you used to mining with three strip miners... Oh, and a Covetor is a lot easier to lose in risky lowsec mining too.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 19:56:00 - [5] Here's the thing though unless you are mining away from a place with a station you can warp back and forth to station and have 0 risk. it costs a bit of time. One minute out of every 5 we'll say if you're efficient about it. That costs one cycle every 15 minutes or 4 cycles an hour. That's about 20k Plagioclase for me which sells raw for about 600k. Nothing to sneeze at but then again a can flipper can cost you so much more. Is the payoff worth the risk? I'm undecided.
sgt carlini Caldari The 11th Order	Posted - 2008.02.19 20:13:00 - [6] The point is that jetcanning starts looking like risk<-->reward and ends up,(once you have a Hulk) risk <--> REWARD as a Hulk mines so much you want to mkae sure you can mine it as much as poss. Also, if you are in a system with fewer people in try to talk to them and listen to the local. This way you can find out who the flippers are and as a bonus make friends who let you join fleets with them for bonuses. I myself once started up talking in local and finished in a fleet getting a tidy little bonus for nothing. When the war comes, caldari are going to kick some galleante and minmatar rear!
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.19 20:30:00 - [7] well the hulk did cost 5-600m not so long ago there was a huge gap moneywise and riskwise to fly something that expansive for the little gain noadays its a nobrainer consider joining a mining corp if you dont want to run a second account ? someone will haul and refine at a perfect standing and skill ... its a win win situation _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.19 21:01:00 - [8] Already have perfect standing with Caldari Navy, working on the refining part now. I may just join a mining corp, it depends on some things with my friends and where things are going for us. If they stay I'll be staying with them, if not I'll be looking to join a mining/industrial corp.
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:04:00 - [9] Are you using ONLY 1 GSC? Put about or maybe 3 in each belt. Then you fill one, move on, fill another, move on, and so on. Once they are all full, get your hauler and empty. But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:28:00 - [10] Edited by: Cygnus Scott on 20/02/2008 15:29:24 Originally by: Huberek Morchu Are you using ONLY 1 GSC? Put about or maybe 3 in each belt. Then you fill one, move on, fill another, move on, and so on. Once they are all full, get your hauler and empty. But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends. What part of "...when there isn't a corpmate to haul for me." in the first question was unclear? Reading is fundamental my friend. Yes I'm using one GSC, the real problem is the 5000m limit and everyone else's GSC all over, getting 2-3 close enough where I'm not spending loads of time moving from one to another and/or moving out of range of the good rocks is rather difficult. I have a few belts where I have multiple GSCs but they are so far from one another that its quicker to warp out and warp back than it is to fly between them. I've already though about this one. Ideally would be 3 GSC (cause I can fit 3 in my badger) positioned in such a way that I could fill a can and move to the next while the strips cycle. As I said above, with all the GSCs scattered over most belts this is nearly impossible however. I've even got some ideas for mining in a system with no stations.

Atwa Awta Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.20 15:54:00 - [11] I know a few decent systems in minmatar space (omber) from back in the day if you're interested. Drop me a message/convo in game.
Kumi Verdi	Posted - 2008.02.20 23:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Cygnus Scott Edited by: Cygnus Scott on 20/02/2008 15:29:24 Originally by: Huberek Morchu Are you using ONLY 1 GSC? Put about or maybe 3 in each belt. Then you fill one, move on, fill another, move on, and so on. Once they are all full, get your hauler and empty. But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends. What part of "...when there isn't a corpmate to haul for me." in the first question was unclear? Reading is fundamental my friend. Yes, reading is. Underlined and bolded the important parts that obviously aren't being read.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.21 00:50:00 - [13] I noticed a comment in here earlier about mining Omber and Kernite, so I figured I'd better chip-in in the interests of world peace and societal stability. Please, for the love of all that is minerally and full of non-stop excitement... Work out the refined mineral value of what you mine before deciding what to mine. A bit of basic math based on what the refined minerals are worth per m3 of ore mined will soon tell you that Omber isn't worth jack at the moment (using Jita mineral prices). And while Kernite is currently the most valuable high-sec ore, it's only barely worth more than Plagioclase, yet the quantity of Kernite that you'll find in Amarr space is jack all compared to how much Plagioclase that can be found in Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar space. The biggest mistake I regularly see is that people assume that because one type of ore is worth more than another per unit, it must be worth more to mine. But people forget to take into account the m3 of each unit of ore. And remember, mining is based on m3, not on units of ore.
Serotta Ortot Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.02.21 06:06:00 - [14] Same, there are some quiet systems out in Minmatar space where I have buy orders for Plagio and Omber I would love to see filled. Maybe 7 or 10 guys in local, and 90% of them in the ice field Drop me a convo in game and I'll send you the right way...
Phoenix Marinus Forging Industries	Posted - 2008.03.23 15:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Huberek Morchu But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends. At least with mining, there are things you need to keep track of. But guarding/hauling for a miner in high sec to protect them from can flippers is boring as hell. Friends wouldn't ask that of friends.
Hafgrimr The Knights Templar Pure.	Posted - 2008.03.23 21:21:00 - [16] The easiest way, and the way i did it, was just getting a second account and using a hauler alt.. yes i know, it's an investment in time and money, but it makes things so much easier
Else D'Moustreir Republic University	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:31:00 - [17] Welcome to barges! I got there myself a little while ago and can't wait to hit the Hulk. A little information about myself before I answer these questions. I'm currently a few days away from being in a Hulk, and I'm in a Retriever at the moment. I am a risky jetcan miner who uses an industrial to haul the ore back and forth to where it needs to go. 1) I'm with you entirely here. I can't stand GSCs. The limit of 5000m towards everything is terrible and it takes SO much time to set them up properly and have to keep moving them to get closer to the ore you can't reach. I can't stand them + I don't use them. As for the warping and ship exchanging, it'll be over by the time you reach the Hulk. I'm currently using a Hoarder industrial that has 9100 capacity. Sure it fills quickly, but the Hulk has about that much with cargo expanders. Once you hit Hulk there will be no need for another ship to haul your goods. You'll only need one warp and then a warp back to the belt. Back to using my Hoarder though (which only needs industrial 1 and the ship isn't even 1m, so I highly recommend it). I get into my retriever, grab a nice empty belt and jetcan mine. I fill the can up until it's at 9000 and put any excess in my Retriever. It takes about 10 minutes to get it up to 9000, I think even a little more. Then I swap ships and pick it up. It is so much quicker than GSC. I've been can flipped a few times, but I don't really take heart to it. 90% of the time someone in local chat will warn miners of can flippers and will dispose of them quickly, or wait until they leave. Just let people know if it happens to you. 2) I think the Covetor is a little lame, but it's in a good spot. Some people aren't interested in selling GTCs, but 90-100m for a Hulk only a day apart may seem like a little steep. The Covetor fills that gap as it is only 20m which is VERY do-able for any new high sec miner. 3) Don't listen to people that give crap about getting friends. I do a lot of my mining solo. I'm a full time college student with a job and I very much enjoy mining solo (and with other people, don't get me wrong), but mining solo is just as great. As for the question on how you should do it solo, you can just scroll back up to my solo process! I haven't timed the difference between filling the retriever and dropping it off vs jetcan mining to 9000 though. . . I'll have to try that next! Hope this helped!
Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 05:07:00 - [18] I recommend jetcan mining in an out-of-the-way system. It is worth being in the boondocks to jetcan mine (so much easier), and the more isolated you are the more likely you are to avoid the jihadswarm.
The Geoman Anarchos Industrial Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.24 06:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Asuka Smith I recommend jetcan mining in an out-of-the-way system. It is worth being in the boondocks to jetcan mine (so much easier), and the more isolated you are the more likely you are to avoid the jihadswarm. Not to mention, those systems are less likely to be mined-out by the time you get there. As for the Jihadswarm, all the intelligence that is needed is given to the public by the Goons themselves. Simply go to their website, and take note of where they're doing their ganks...and don't mine there. Check it from time to time to see if locations change. As to the other issues raised here- GSC's are useless to you once you've reached the Hulk. One single cycle will yield more ore than a GSC can even hold. You're left with some choices, though. The base cargo hold of the Hulk is a rather generous 8000m3. If you don't mind sacrificing yield, you can use the two low slots in order to fit two t2 expanders. And if you want to spend some isk, you can throw a rig or two on for even more cargo space, though you'll spend as much on those as you did for the Hulk itself. This will give you a bit over 17000m3 of space. That's going to be more than lower-end industrial ships can carry, so its not bad. I have to emphasize, though, that nothing generates mining isk better than having a dedicated hauler around. When you can devote your hulk exclusively to getting the best possible yield, and you never have to stop mining in order to haul, its just a constant and efficient stream for you. As to the Covetor, I have to admit, I don't get it, either. I think that the requirements on it should be lowered, while keeping the Hulk requirements the same. I'll tell you that I actually did use a Covetor for that day or two that I spent getting the Hulk training done. Because the skill treadmill took so long, and I was so sick of the Retriever, I did indeed use a Covetor for a very brief time...when I got into the Hulk the next day I simply sold the Covetor and even managed to make a small profit on it.
Huberek Morchu Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 12:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Phoenix Marinus Originally by: Huberek Morchu But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends. At least with mining, there are things you need to keep track of. But guarding/hauling for a miner in high sec to protect them from can flippers is boring as hell. Friends wouldn't ask that of friends. Well, then, can I have your stuff? This is just another whine thread for people who want to play a multiplayer game solo. If you dont have any corp mates to haul for you and protect your investment, then get a better corp, or do something besides mine. CCP is not going to change things to encourage AFK play, solo play, or farming.

Asuka Smith StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.03.24 13:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Originally by: Phoenix Marinus Originally by: Huberek Morchu But really the key here is that this is a MULTIPLAYER game. Make some friends. At least with mining, there are things you need to keep track of. But guarding/hauling for a miner in high sec to protect them from can flippers is boring as hell. Friends wouldn't ask that of friends. Well, then, can I have your stuff? This is just another whine thread for people who want to play a multiplayer game solo. If you dont have any corp mates to haul for you and protect your investment, then get a better corp, or do something besides mine. CCP is not going to change things to encourage AFK play, solo play, or farming. You are right, CCP wants a lagmonster blobfest just to mine some ore... But seriously Jetcan mining is so easy, I can mine for 8 hours and not get harassed in the slightest. The key is to not mine in Motsu like an idiot.
The Geoman Anarchos Industrial Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.24 15:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Well, then, can I have your stuff? This is just another whine thread for people who want to play a multiplayer game solo. If you dont have any corp mates to haul for you and protect your investment, then get a better corp, or do something besides mine. CCP is not going to change things to encourage AFK play, solo play, or farming. It must really burn your rear that some people don't play the way that you want them to play, eh?
Ikserak tai Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.03.24 16:29:00 - [23] Okay, here's what I do solo. When I had the Retriever I flew my Industrial (Mammoth) to the belt with 5 GSC's and jettisoned them one by one. Took about 15 minutes, and while waiting the three minutes for each can I had a Miner II on the Mammoth going. Mined about 1100m3 before I had jettisoned all cans. Flew back to station, got the Retriever, back to the belt, filled the cans and the hold, and jettisoned a can with about 2000m3 of ore to completely fill up the Mammoth (capacity roughly 17000m3 with four cargo expanders). Flew back to the station and got the Mammoth to fetch the containers. In about 70 minutes the result is 5x3900=19500 + 2000 + 2000 + 1100 = 24,600m3. The drawback is the security risk, I've had cans stolen until I found an out-of-the-way system (0.9). With the Hulk w/cargo expanders II's and 2 Cargo Optimization Rigs the capacity is 17,199. Five GSC's (capacity 3900 ea = 19,500) and 2,199 leftover (the GSC's take 15000m3) we get 21,699m3 per 25 minutes with Mod Strip miner II's w/crystals. I've got a coveter if you want to buy it, the training time seems like forever to get to a Hulk but bite the bullet and do it. Exhumer skill books are 25M, by the way. Otherwise, go with Retriever option above until then. YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
Jeslik Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.03.24 17:50:00 - [24] #1: Ditto on moving. Minmatar space is/has been pretty quiet. Heimatar/Metropolis/Molden Heath. I've had flippers mess with me only a few times in the last year, but I like to hang out in the back of beyond. I will say i've spoken with our Alliance brethren in Calderi space, and they say that they don't have many flippers either (5x as many as I get, but still, not a daily occurance), but they do mine en masse usually, which provides a deterant, and they also mine in out-of-the-way systems when possible. #2 - yeah, Coveter should be moved to a Mining Barges 4. Isn't. probably won't be. #3 - I'm one of those who uses an Alt to haul. Yes its annoying that you have to pay for 2 accounts, but the increase in game-play enjoyment is worth it to me. Hauling is the most boring task in a mining op. Even if I had a corpmate available, unless they volunteered to haul (Sucka!) I'd have them mine - at least it feels like they're contributing, even if they're in a Scythe still.


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