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Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 15:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I posted this idea to my blog, ( http://beboldbebriefbegone.blogspot.com ) and thought I'd post it here as well.
One Idea GÇô Fragment Mining
***WARNING*** I am going to use some very basic equations to make my point that do not take every detail into account. One of the advantages o f ratting is that you have a chance to loot really decent items from the wrecks. It is simple, depending on the security rating of the system you an (Y %) chance of a faction/high end loot drop. So for a combat orientated player they can look at their income as: Income = ((X ISK/hour) + (Y%/Faction Kill)) . Am minerGÇÖs income, on the other hand, is based on the amount they can strip or mine in an hour: Income = (Market rate of Ore) * (Ore mined/hour). Notice that in the case of the miner he has a fixed income rate depending on the ore mined! His experience is constant & in my opinion a bit boring. I want to add + (Z%/Amount Mined)
Now how could CCP change that? What about a chance of high end ores (such as the ABCs) or possibly moon minerals such as Mercoxit dropping? This system would not merely have these prizes dropped into your cargo hold, but youGÇÖd have to work for them.
How it would work:
1- Miners begin mining a rock. Depending on the security rating of the system the miner is in & the type of ore being mined, would grant a X% chance that the rock would yield a High End Ore Fragment (HEO Fragment) per FULL mining cycle for each mining module. (or maybe based on the amount harvested?) I would suggest either limiting this benefit to strip mining modules OR grant bigger bonuses to the drop % based on the type of modules being used. A civilian mining laser should NOT have the same chance as a fully fit out T2 Hulk. (Which in turn could allow for additional benefits for using T2 mining crystals or special rigs, or maybe even allow for *new* mining ships especially designed to search for these fragments?)
2- When a mining cycle results in the spawn or drop of a HEO Fragment it appears in space, much like a loot can or wreck. It also would only remain on grid as long as any other wreck. The fragment must be targeted. Now you could simply loot this fragment like a loot can, but I think that would be too easy, and allow folks to come along and steal this precious cargo from the hapless miner. I suggest the additional steps below.
3- When HEO Fragment is targeted a special mining module must be used to extract the mineral from the fragment. It would share the same mechanics as salvaging, yet use skills specific to the mining profession. (WOOT!!! New Mining Skills & module to work for!) IGÇÖd recommend that current mining ships could be given an extra high utility slot or two that could be equipped with these modules but not additional strip miners. (Using mechanics equal to those limiting turrets/bays & utility slots on combat ships)
4- Once the minerals have been GÇ£extractedGÇ¥ from the HEO Fragment they may be looted into your shipGÇÖs cargo hold.
Until next time,
Be BoldGǪ |
Kimbeau Surveryor
Stapeley House
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 16:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Intriguing idea. And how about having a "captcha" type human interface to the special module to make it hard for macro miners?  |
Tidurious
The Dirty Rejects
Scelus Sceleris.
79
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Posted - 2012.02.17 19:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
No, god-damnit, captcha has NO business in EVE, ever! |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
339
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Posted - 2012.02.17 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kimbeau Surveryor wrote:Intriguing idea. And how about having a "captcha" type human interface to the special module to make it hard for macro miners?
tell you what...you use it...and tell us how it works out for you....for 5 months straight.
As to the OP - I like the idea...but your likely to cause the market to end off worse than it did before.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown for CSM 7! |
Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
1
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Posted - 2012.02.17 23:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd hope that CCP would consider market effects & adjust drops accordingly. The concept is to promote & reward those players that are at their keyboard. You could even use the system to simply increase mining yields of the same ore/min type.
Thanks for the feedback. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.20 04:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
imho capcha's are simplistic visual puzzles that are very limited in scope, and although in their more recognisable forms arent really implementable into eve without breaking the feel of RP, the idea of puzzles can be used but has to be created and tested against bots.
mining has always been a semi-afk profession. but i think that needs to change, and along with it, the rewards need to increase along with it, else people wont be tempted to explore it as a source of income.
Mining needs to become a skilled profession, not an afk activity, so much like mining gas clouds now... there should be real risks to all mining. but the deeper you drill the higher the chance of a catastrophic explosion or temporary immobilisation.
there should be tell tale signs both visually/audiably and a combination of both and other more abstract forms (offlining modules/change in local mode/behaviour etc... that are warning signs to change the type, depth, speed, duration and intensity of the mining cycle to stave off disaster.
These signs should be easily noticable in shallow mining where the profits are minimal... and less obvious/more obscure the deeper you mine for higher and faster profits.
Now i dont claim to know exactly what form this should appear as to be as difficult as possible for botting programs to pick up upon, but the above does correlate to what may be seen as puzzles/capchas.
You could also include warning signs not possible to be noticed by a single player on high end high yield mining to encourage co-operation to get the best results.
so:
Low End Low Yield - obvious signs (varying wildly but of low intensity/low threat) - low threat penalties if signs are ignored.
Low End High Yield - increasingly obscure/less noticable signs (including HUD/module oddities etc..) - moderate penalties
High End Low Yield - increasingly obscure less noticable signs etc... - moderate to high penalties.
High End High Yield - least noticable signs becoming not noticable to lone miners - extreme penalties.
thats how i see it anyways! |
Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
1
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Posted - 2012.02.20 18:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
One idea to work against bots.... why not make ALL the ore have to be looted from the rock, and not directly drop into the cargo hold?
I am all in favor to any idea that make those at the keyboard gain an advantage from those that simply afk mine. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
339
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Posted - 2012.02.20 18:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Agatir Solenth wrote:One idea to work against bots.... why not make ALL the ore have to be looted from the rock, and not directly drop into the cargo hold?
I am all in favor to any idea that make those at the keyboard gain an advantage from those that simply afk mine.
won't work.....bots are not as restarined or dumb as you think they are.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown for CSM 7! |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
59
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Posted - 2012.02.20 19:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
bots can easily identify colours - use keyboard shortcuts... click various aspects of the screen and react to things that occur on screen.
The advanced ones even sniff out data coming to the client from CCP's servers that even us as human players dont see. one of the main reasons why i want CCP to stop sending clients all the data and then having the client filter the data from what clients should see to what they shouldnt.
its horrendous tbh... |
0Lona 0ltor
Red Sky Morning
BricK sQuAD.
16
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Posted - 2012.02.21 13:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is agreat idea but it will be burned by botters. Yeah for sure maybe a bot will be able to do the game but maybe not and it will involve a lot of programming if CCP wants to make it hard for a bot to mine. There in lies the problem CCP don't want to make it hard for bots.
CCP wins from BOTS through subscriptions but hey up RMT is a win for players and a loss for ccp, both stem from the bots so it's a double edge sword for CCP. That is why they have only ever targeted RMT and bots ahve only ever been a colleteral casuilty such as in unholy rage. |
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Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1076
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Posted - 2012.02.21 13:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I like the idea...if anything it will bring a little more balance to mining. Rewarding those in "riskier" areas of EvE. As for the "capcha" issue...why not just make mining more interactive in general? I keep thinking of something from Mass Effect 2 where when in your little hover car you can extract minerals from sites but as you hold the button down to do so the site starts pushing your hover car around more aggressively until it either pushes you off the site or you successfully extract the mineral. This would work for mining lazers if done right as well. Granted bots WILL in time find a way around it. They always do. There is quite litterally nothing you can do to stop a bot developer from finding a way but that isn't the point. The harder we make it for them the better...within reason. It has to be fun for the player too.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Velicitia
Open Designs
635
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Posted - 2012.02.21 14:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
other than the fact you think Mercoxit is a moon mineral (it happens to be the asteroid type that you get Morphite from) ... the idea isn't terrible.
Chance based is a no no though. Make it need Modulated Deep Core [Strip] Miners to actually be able to mine.
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Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
3
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Posted - 2012.02.21 15:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:other than the fact you think Mercoxit is a moon mineral (it happens to be the asteroid type that you get Morphite from) ... the idea isn't terrible.
Chance based is a no no though. Make it need Modulated Deep Core [Strip] Miners to actually be able to mine.
Thanks for the catch... I have changed it to reflect Technetium. I should add that my actual blog post starts with me telling folks that I am industrially inept in game. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
638
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Posted - 2012.02.21 16:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:(stuff)
While "more interactive" would be great, the downside is that if you force people to be focused on that more than on local/dscan/etc, they just become easier targets.
With that said, re-working things this way would throw a huge monkey wrench into the mineral market ("yay!" for the people who can stay alive ... "this is bullshit!!" for everyone buying minerals). It might even go so far as to help draw miners into lowsec, since their defence guys can actually violence the bad guys without CONCORD stepping in... |
Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
3
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Posted - 2012.02.21 16:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:It might even go so far as to help draw miners into lowsec, since their defence guys can actually violence the bad guys without CONCORD stepping in...
Exactly! Something like this could be the carrot to draw miners out of High-Sec. You could actually make Low-Sec rewards be equal to or greater than Null-Sec. IMHO the Low-Sec rewards should be a bit higher than Null-Sec in this system. I see the risk being much higher in Low-Sec than Null. You can't bubble up gates, nor control the traffic thru it as easily as big alliances do in 0.0.
I'm thinking the Low-Sec pirates wouldn't mind hunting for miners or their haulers either. |
None ofthe Above
84
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Posted - 2012.02.26 18:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump for relevence for the Million Miner March:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=72666&find=unread
Even None ofthe Above supports Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7! |
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