Originally by: Gorthauran

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Leandro...lol

I do recall you swearing by TC's on your Abaddon beam setups in the past and since when is a TC not fit for a mission ship? Paladin doesn't need anything else in those 2 mid slots so why not use a TC considering we are using Tachyons here and a webber to make use of the ships bonus?

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With regards to your overtank comment...yeah i know you think us Amarr are blockheads=P In the same post you say Amarr like to overtank yet you fill the mids of the Nightmare with a billion+ isk tank...

Ample Paladin tank is - Faction LAR, Faction EANM, 2 Hardener II's and 3x Faction HS...i don't see how that is overtanking at all compared to what you've got on that Nightmare. The whole omni purpose shield tank point is moot as the Nightmare is still a laser boat and you have said yourself that using lasers on anything other than Bloods/Sansha/Drones is masochistic i believe. The thing is, the Paladin's armor tank is meant for these factions and what i posted is ample when DPS range tanking...there is no need for the overinflated shield tank. In fact those factions damage against Amarr armor tanks is quite poor even with just the 1 LAR, 1 EANM and 2 hardeners.

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Both these ships have identical firepower and as for the slight DPS increase through better hits because of the tracking bonus i don't view this as a massive difference because NPC's are just not that hard to hit. When i can insta pop frigates, destroyers and cruisers in a Paladin how is the tracking bonus any faster? Battleships and Battlecruisers are sitting ducks anyway. IF anything does get through and is under 15km you don't have to do the math on what will hit more with regards to a web bonus stopping the ship dead in it's tracks vs a tracking bonus.

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Marauders 5 only takes 45 odd days to train...that's not so bad when you think about it compared to the cross training involved with the Nightmare to reach the same level of effectiveness.

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At the end of the day both these ships are the best you can get for Amarr mission running and both have their strong points and i believe it's quite a level playing field between them. Comes down to personal taste and how much you want to put into either ship. As Nightmare is FOTM i can see more ppl supporting that ship which isn't a bad thing...just don't dismiss the effectiveness of the Paladin is the point i am trying to get across

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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words that are in my head while reading this thread

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Originally by: WardogX

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I fly paladin and kronos and switch them based on mission damage type.

My findings are kronos can do biggest wrecking damages but hits less excellent/wrecking shots then my kronos. The kronos does nice wrecking damages but hits then more frequently.

Both ships chew through battleships quickly. They almost always 1 hit frigates at range. Cruisers take more then 1 shot but in 3-6 shots they usually drop.

Paladin obviously shines on EM weak shield tanking rats.. it will make you chuckle at how fast they peel a shield off a caldari ship.

Kronos shines on armor tanks whereas paladin is usually weaker.

As other said Kronos is VERY easy to fit for... you can have 4-5 damage mods in low slots and room left for tank as well as well as so much power grid (even with t2 guns) that you can do insane fittings (like officer webs.. or anything else with 2000+ PG) tons of fitting options on kronos.

As others said.. Paladin is hard to fit for.. mostly cuase if you got Tachyon II they are hardcore on Powergrid and will require wasting a low slot (or rig slot) to beef up your grid. This means you lose 1 damage mod slot if you want to have the same tank as a kronos. The updside to any amarr BS is you can fit that 7% damage implant vs the 5% damage implant everyone else has to deal with.

As a loot ship kronos shines better then ALL 4 races... it is the fastest with MOST cargo space. Paladin is second best loot ship.

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Every ship has the exact same chance for wrecking hits, so both your Kronos and your Kronos (and also your Paladin I guess :P) theoretically do the same amount of wrecking hits. Any variance is pure chance. I guess a Kronos might do more well aimed and excellent, but even that would surprise me, seeing how lasers have so much higher base tracking than rails that even a tracking bonus does not make rails better.

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Originally by: WardogX

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Edited by: WardogX on 26/02/2008 20:58:54

Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Every ship has the exact same chance for wrecking hits, so both your Kronos and your Kronos (and also your Paladin I guess :P) theoretically do the same amount of wrecking hits. Any variance is pure chance. I guess a Kronos might do more well aimed and excellent, but even that would surprise me, seeing how lasers have so much higher base tracking than rails that even a tracking bonus does not make rails better.

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I have been keeping logs for last 3 weeks. Historically speaking I land more excellent/wrecking shots with kronos. Historically speaking when I do land wrecking shots on paladin they are always greater then kronos.

I also use same amount of projected tracking bonus on both ships.. so one isn't gaining an additional advantage over the other.

Side note: I use ZGL1000 on slot 10. Even with this I see bigger hits wrecking hits on pally side.

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I wasn't talking about TCs. The Web is the module that you normally do not fit on a mission ship. And seeing how it takes up a slot that could otherwise be used to AB or SeBo or whatever else you are missing, I don't like it particularly much. All it really is is a sa***uard.

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The difference is not massive, but it is there and I enjoy it. I also enjoy pulse lasers hitting orbiting inties even without a web ;)

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That depends entirely on your style of training. I guess if you are one of those speccing *****s, Marauder 5 is your wet dream. Being a diversification ***** like me, it is a horror and having multiple BS skills at lvl5 is very helpful.

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True enough. The difference is not huge. But when you are at a point where you pay 100 mil for every extra percent of damage, even small differences start to count ;)

Which is why imho the Nightmare is the better ship for the elite, and the Paladin is better for the more casual people.

And really, the Gist does not overtank the Nightmare, it frees meds so I can go into every mission with a SeBo and AB (or even two SeBos). I find those things to be one of the most underrated modules for missionrunning, especially when you kill the NPCs so fast that you simply don't have time to target new enemies 1 per 1 dead...

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Originally by: KD.Fluffy

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On a turret battleship, a web is a very standard fitting for missions.

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Yes, but most do not use pulse on missions boats for good reason. You can hit orbiting inties with your web bonus in the paladin while using tachyons... that is tight.

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Marauders 5 is a more generalized skill then any other race's bs 5 because it applies to all races.....

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Uhm last time I checked, the nightmare costs just as much as a paladin... most people in this thread are overlooking one huge advantage the paladin has over the nightmare and thats the ability to overheat guns. YOu can fit 3 offline modules that act as heatsinks and overheat your guns for a significant amount of time. Nightmare is a good mission ship, but paladin is better.

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Where did I mention cost? Cost is totally irrelevant to the debate.
And I did not even train thermodynamics (and prolly never will) in order to prevent me from accidentally frying my officer guns, so this might be a point but does not apply to me.
And like I said, for people like you (and citing a web as standard mission fit definitely identifies you as casual Razz) the Pally is better. But I know for me the Nightmare is better.

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