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Scrutt5
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.02.25 12:04:00 -
[1]
Viqer,
Firstly I would like to congratulate you on the professionalism of your pilots, not once were we taunted in local or smacked for failing to undock when heavily outnumbered.
One question I have for you if I may.
Under the title of your campaign against us, you described the operation as ôNew Homeö. Having had a conversation with one of your pilots, I was informed we were the subjects of a contract that had been concluded, and, having been paid, as a unit you wouldnÆt be hanging around. I would appreciate if you could confirm this was indeed a contract rather than an attempt to take our system for your own use.
I appreciate that you may not wish to comment on Trinity NovaÆs relationship with the pirate outfit Muffin Factory and the Sex Panther alliance. I just find it strange that an organisation such as yours, on many occasions allowed outlaw Muffin pilots to sit in very close proximity to your gangs, warp with them and even appear to be scouting on your behalf. This really reinforced our belief that you did indeed plan to move into our system and had pre-arranged standings with our next-door neighbours and adversaries.
Although vastly outnumbered we thoroughly enjoyed the conflict and wish you every success in the future.
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Pride NL
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2008.02.25 12:46:00 -
[2]
We have a utility for this sort of thing. Its called EVEmail. Thanks. I want my 3minutes back.
Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave. |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.02.25 12:52:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Scrutt5
I just find it strange that an organisation such as yours, on many occasions allowed outlaw Muffin pilots to sit in very close proximity to your gangs, warp with them and even appear to be scouting on your behalf.
Even appear to be scouting on their behalf? Outlaws? Well I never
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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blanked
Caldari
Vitai Lampada
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Posted - 2008.02.25 13:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: blanked on 25/02/2008 13:05:12
Dear Viqer,
Thank you for your kind, and understanding words, they were much appreciated. It would be a complete lie to say that you guy weren't good at your job and there appears to be a lot of talent within your corporation. Again, thank you, we have all enjoyed this war.
Something I would like to raise, like Scrutt5's, however, is the terms of this "contract". Trinity's announcement and campaign on the killboard refered to this as "operation new home"
To quote yourself:
"TNT is pleased to announce its relocation to the Huola System as part of its new contract.
The full termns of Operation New Home are at this time confidential but we are confident that the results will again be reflective of TNT's dedication to getting the job done."
To consolidate this, your killboard announced that: "TNT moves operations to its new central office of Huola". Screen shots are available.
And to an extent this was your new home. You each brought in a varied number of ships, averaging on three each, a week yesterday, and you brought in 5 caps: 2x thanatos, naglifar, moros, phoenix. I could be wrong here, you may have brought more, but this is what i remember.
So far then it would appear that your contract would be to move into huola and to eliminate the threat within the said system; namely Snuff and Vitai Lampada.
The contract boundaries were from "Sat 16th Feb, 2008 - Tue 25th Mar, 2008 (Active)" Stating that this was indeed a large move by your corporation.
On Sunday the 17th we became aware of this contract and made the war mutual and put in our best efforts to maintain our home. The losses on Saturday to us were huge putting TNT +2bil on the first day and us up 100mil. After a week, however, we stand at +1bil (should be +1.2bil check the huginn loss and the value of its modules on your board faction stuff is a lot) and minus -2.5bil. Now, arguably KDR isn't everything. No doubt TNT have the greater stats but the cost has come at demoralizing its members and fighting a war in a style they don't like.
As a result:
2008.02.25 00:02
The war between Trinity Nova and Vitai Lampada is coming to an end. Trinity Nova has retracted the war against Vitai Lampada. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours.
And Viqer claiming that the criteria of the contract has been met and they are moving on. When clearly the contract was intended to last until 25th March.
I would like to clarify, therefore, exactly what the contract was. It would appear with certain evidence that TNT are trying to pull out of this war of which they have failed to meet their goals with their KDR still in tact as not to tarnish their reputation.
Huola was to be their home system, Viqer said on the first night to Battle Dog that they liked the idea of Huola because it was a central base for them to work out of on all their future operations.
I could be wrong, this could have been a contract just to fight us for the week, cause us losses and you moving in Huola whilst you do this.
If I'm correct, however, please do us the honour of saying we fought well and have maintained our home against overwhelming odds. We have fought as much as we can and we respect the skill you have brought. Many criticize those for being docked and never once did TNT say anything. Again respect.
Thank you for the fights they have pushed our members,
blanked - CEO of Vitai Lampada
(This is intended to be a discussion and has been left in that format, if you would like to criticize the argument of evidence feel free.)
You are perhaps the sexiest eve gamer I have ever had the fortune to encounter on these forums! -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Much love Conuion <3 |
Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.25 15:12:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 25/02/2008 15:15:29
Afternoon Gentlemen,
You raise a few valid points and hopefully I will be able to answer them all without appearing to be to vague. TNT has a long standing track record of integrity when it comes to client confidentiality and we have never broken this trust so I am not able to give you full disclosure here.
What I am able to say is that Trinity Pilots are employed under the strictest of terms when it comes to respecting our clients privacy and to this end we have an ongoing rule that pilots are not to communicate with the targets or in local under any circumstance. There are two exceptions to this rule. The first being that I do allow my pilots to acknowledge the occasional "good fight" remark but given that a lot of kills achieved tend to be where the target internally must be saying "Oh crap why didn't I use a scout" as he dies we don't always reply to the regular "gf"'s we see in local. The second is when communication with the target is specified within the contract term. I trust you will understand that I cannot elobarate any further on this point.
Trinity Nova has an established history of strong performance and as such we are often asked to extend contracts. With this in mind the contract terms from our killboard are often not representative of the true term agreed. This gives us the ability to save on management time mucking about with the killboard records but also adds a strong element of doubt into the targets mind as to what is happening in terms of "Is TNT here for a week or for 2 months???". In respect of the contract titles all i will say is that they are carefully worded to generate specific inferences by third parties.
Our fleet deployments are an internal security matter and as such I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of any Capital nor Super-Capital deployments at any time.
Trinity Nova has a long running policy of maintaining a neutral stance to all parties. As such any standings we hold are of necessity short lived any specific to our clients requirements. Any agreements in this respect remain confidential and as such I cannot comment on any speculation or rumour regarding Sex Panthers presence in neighbouring systems.
When I accepted this contract we knew it would be tough to achieve the clients expectations and we attempted to manage these accordingly. I don't belive anything that happened over the last week came as a surprise.
It was anticipated that both pilots from Snuff Inc and Vitai would predominantly remain docked and that engagements with them would be risky as they would likely only occur when our presence was diminished due to timings or if we miscalculated.
I am happy to confirm that on the whole the week passed by smack free and with the occasional enjoyable gank/fight on both sides.
I think it must have been as equally frustrating for you guys to be forced to spend 90% of your time docked or playing the dock/undock game as it was for us to stare at the undock point for hours and hours with few breaks. Please don't take that as a taunt either, it's merely an observation not a criticism of your actions. It is equally as frustrating when we have a policy of non-piracy within TNT. As such whilst a pirate corporation would be happy camping you in as they also had a throughflow of targets from the gates we were resolved to simply sit and watch the nuetrals fly safely past as we camped you in.
Overall I think you guys did what any sensible corporation would do in the same situation. Remain docked and try to use the attackers boredom against them by randomnly engaging en masse.
I think from our perspective we achieved what we expected to achieve. We kept you from being able to pirate effectively in huola and surrounding systems during the term of our presence.
Trinity Nova is now on a period of R&R having being on contract for almost 8 weeks solid.
Kind regards.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
blanked
Caldari
Vitai Lampada
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Posted - 2008.02.25 16:11:00 -
[6]
Edited by: blanked on 25/02/2008 16:12:30
That's all well and good but you have failed to tackle the main criticism:
What were your goals?
The evidence clearly states that you wished to move into Huola to live there and operate there. If you want evidence of caps i have fraps but that's not the point.
You stated that huola would be a central base for you guy and for the future. You have now left there meaning that you have failed to achieve what you set out to do.
Regardless of client confidentiality, the time of the contract and the caps in deployment, you clearly stated that Huola would be your home.
It is not.
As a result, you have failed to achieve what you have set out to do.
I understand that your reputation of honour and integrity are the most important thing to you and i feel you would earn more now by simply putting "thanks for the fights, you won" as opposed to manipulating the truth to state that the goals of your contract were different to those originally stated.
You are perhaps the sexiest eve gamer I have ever had the fortune to encounter on these forums! -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Much love Conuion <3 |
Flashh Gorden
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.25 16:39:00 -
[7]
You obiously cant read between the lines of what Viqer has said.
I will say one thing too you, we are Mercs.
The only place I get to call home is the place where I run my level 4s during R&R.
Now im going to shut up because I have said enough already.
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kublai
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.02.25 16:41:00 -
[8]
Well I thi...oh ohhh i'm sorry, I didn't realize this was a private conversation, I will just go back to knitting.
------
Art of War is recruiting - Think you got what it takes?
Buying sig - eve-mail "Jonny 101" |
Scrutt5
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.02.25 17:56:00 -
[9]
Many thanks for taking the time to reply Viqer,
Enjoy your R&R and we wish both yourself and your corp. every success in the future.
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.25 18:18:00 -
[10]
Regardless of what Flash said where he knows he shouldn't have posted on here (bad flashh!) he does have a point. You need to learn to read between the lines.
Let me make it a little clearer for you though.
"It is our policy not to communicate in local or privately with our targets during a contract unless the contract specifically requires it.".
Follow that thought process through and see where it leads you.
I am fully aware of what was said to you at the start of the contract because it was worded very specifically to back up the other mis-information. I am also aware of what ships I ordered deployed to the region (my memory may be a little flaky but your offer of screenshots is not really required).
As to what the goals were, well that is between us and the client. Any mercenary organisations reputation and standing with their clients is based upon trust and a few ill-informed jibes are not going to persuade me to betray that trust.
I recognise that the only reason you are now thinking what you think is because you believed the mis-information that was put out so I guess I can't really blame you for believing it but now is the time to let it lie.
Short and sweet version. We had a contract, we deployed, the contract ended, we redployed. No TinFoil hats necessary.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Damol
Jovian Elite Squad
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.02.25 19:33:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Damol on 25/02/2008 19:33:51
Originally by: blanked
stuff
So what you guys are trying to say is, you stayed docked up in a station for a week, but still won...
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.25 20:43:00 -
[12]
Let us keep this civil please, blanked merely had a misunderstanding. We don't need to go down the whole who was docked / wasn't docked etc route.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Battle Dog
Vitai Lampada
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Posted - 2008.02.25 21:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Battle Dog on 25/02/2008 21:23:10
i believe the point we are making is that we do not see what u have accomplished against us other than to make us stay docked when u had overwhelming force in system. i.e. was your contract simply to stop us camping the gate and killing indivduals or corps? if it was to kill us then from our point of view we are still here and ready to fight, also we have not been forced to move or been restricted in supplying our selves.
I dont not wish to engage in a forum argument about this and nor do i really expect a answer saying your objectives for the campaign i just felt it was important to clarify our point of view.
I think its fair to say we were surprised by your retraction of the war dec as we were enjoying the fight and did not feel that you had achieved any particluar objective against us.
as has already been said some good fighs were had and respect for the professionalism of all involved.
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.26 00:08:00 -
[14]
I understand the point you are trying to make, you don't understand why we left and you have made some ill-informed and ultimately incorrect guesses as to why. That's a pretty fair summation of your post.
As previously noted our contract goals are confidential between us and the client. Without being harsh it is irrelevant whether you can comprehend them or even guess them.
As for the nature of our visit to Huola, I fully expected you guys to do exactly what you did. Stay docked 95% of time. Play the Dock/Undock/Dock game and to try and sneak kills when you spotted a brief window. You did so. I respect your pilots for mostly sticking to the game plan and for keeping any nonsense out of local. We never expected to walk away after the job was done with a hat full of killmails because put simply I never expected either corp we declared against to put up a sustained fight.
Please do not take that as a dig either. I fully respect your method of combatting us, sometimes the only way to get your revenge on a mercenary force who has you camped is to try and frustrate them. By hardly ever being in space you sure did add an element of frustration to the job however we are professionals and we weren't going to let a little boredom stop us from completing the job at hand.
I suppose in many respects here we are falling afoul of our own PysOps. It is not your fault that you believed what you were told by us a week ago simply because we chose what we said carefully. I would ask you this though, if I told you I was holding up an Apple and then a week later revealed it to be an Orange would you still be arguing that it was an Apple I held simply because I told you it was? No clearly not, you would realise I had misled you at first. Follow that idea and see where it leads you.
Ultimately though your comprehension is not required for us to have completed our task. I have attempted to politely clarify the reasons for our entry into Huola and our Departure.
The short version of it is thus.
Job Offered, Job accepted, Deploy Assets into Theatre, Job finished, Re-Deploy Assets out Theatre.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Rechal
Active Measures
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Posted - 2008.02.26 06:02:00 -
[15]
Pride NL, did it really take 3 minutes to read that first post? 
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.26 08:14:00 -
[16]
Now that made me chuckle.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
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