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Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
198
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Posted - 2012.02.19 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maybe its due to mining and industrials being a neglected profession and supply is falling due to less activity in this as a choice over other professions that simply use the market and don't supply it, incuring a hike in prices as supply effectively goes down or stays the same but with rising demand?
That and griefing/war activities which don't help with supply being lost?
If PvP is on the rise then demand will naturally increase.
The factors above can be contributing to price increases as a result regardless of inflationary issues.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
198
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 15:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Regarding plex specifically.
Also volumes of plex sold per month are considerable, much more then you'd expect from just incursion runners alone.
So plex behaviour cannot be attributable as an incursion issue alone.
Needless to say plex is nothing to do with inflation as it simply moves isk around.
However, if behavioural shifts are changing that certain professions are neglected because people are focusiing on isk generation to obtain plex, then the supply of goods will dimish due to the industrial profession being neglected as an isk generating proffession.
As such if plex prices spike again behaviour will shift to compensate for those wishing to plex.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 17:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wes Magyar wrote:The point of this was to Establish a Gold Standard... be it Plex or some other type of item. I think plex is a good choice because it will allow the price not to get to high for noobs to afford. And it is a real world Tangible asset that everyone can use.
For my first year in eve 100 million isk was a stupidly large amount of isk. Of course that was a long time ago. now a days it may not be so much after say 3 or 4 months in the game. but i digress. as it stands 500 million isk is a bit high for any newish player to conceivably afford and still be able to fund other activities in the game. it can be rather difficult for even relative veterans. and god forbid if you want to run multiple characters. putting a hard Cap on plex prices would give Isk a set Value that the rest of the market could fall around and help prevent inflation. while at the same time Ensuring that noobs would have the ability to purchase them. 350-400 mil is a pretty good goal and is still a decent amount of isk. For years 30 day GTC's cost around 180-200 million isk and they where still fairly while traded as i can attest. My alliance at the time made a pretty penny in commissions for selling them for CCP.
The other solution that is feasible is Lowering the payouts for most incursions while increasing the amount of sites in them. but that will just expound the problem. There are other Fundamental problems with the growth of eve (IE supercapital online and the inability of small alliances to hold space anymore without being someones *****) but those are outside of the scope of this thread.
How about this.. instead of shooting down my proposal put forward some ideas of your own? All i know for certain is that for me and most of my friends with plex prices being as high as they are it is rather difficult for us to justify paying for eve month in and month out using ISK.
First prove that the main plex issues are associated with incursions. Rather than using it as a scapegoat.
Plex volumes are too large to soley be attributable to incursion runners. Incursions are not the main isk faucet to the game by contribution.
Also negating the effects as you claimed as an inflation issue to the economy and behavioural changes and neglect to the industrial base now or the isk transferance associated with supply and demand? Wonder why?
Thusly other issues either associated with behaviour or other income generating sources may be the issue here.
Possibly erroneaous tactics focussed by predjudice IG as a meta issue while missing the real problems or issues could simply propogate if not make the EvE experience even worse in the long run.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 18:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wes Magyar wrote:ok first off didn't understand 90% of your reply but as for plex prices.
this time last year they where 300 million now they are near 500 million...
so what happened around this time last year? the release of incursions. if you go further back in the price data you will find that before then plex prices where fairly steady. floating between the 250 to 300 million range for quite awhile. And as more and more people started doing incursions the price has climbed steadily, now people are going to say well thats becuase demand is higher... well that's not true.. looking at the numbers there have been ups and downs but the amount being sold has actualy declined.
This information is easily accessible. open your market in eve. search for plex. then select it and click on price history. and voila.. data...
And the plex spike occured around the time of the crucible announcement and was a "spike" not a gradual increase you would have seen over time if incursions where he cause for the period they have been introduced.
Prior to that there was the "power of two" promotion.
There were also people manipulating the prices at the time of the spike.
Seems to me to be more likley attributable to re-activation of accounts and ongoing plexing to achieve things, maybe stock up on new BC BPs or the BCs themselves aswell as numerous other additions. Seems more likley seeing as it occured co-incidentally around it dont you think?
When you combine that with volumes of plex as I mentioned before and all other potential isk faucets it still seems unproven to me in a big way.
Seeing the price history does not attribute who is buying them then if you can't find an attributable link to incursions as the main issue for plex increases then you can't use it as a logical argument to afford changes solely to them as a "nerf" as a result. QED.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 18:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daeva Teresa wrote:Guys, you all are looking at this problem from bad angle.
People will buy plex for real money and will sell it for isk only if they need isk - large amount and fast. Since its really easy now to make large amounth of isk fast (incursions, sleepers) lot of people who funded theyr's pvp with real money just dont need this anymore.
Please stop looking at this problem from view of people who buys plex for isk. The real problem here is with people who buys plex for real money and then sells it for isk (im one of these people).
If RL money were to blame then if there are too many of them are buying plex you'd expect to see prices come down due to supply out stripping demand.
But volumes traded rather than spikes at certain points seem to remain stable looking from the history, it doesnt seem to be trending up overall over the last year anyhow.
If volumes went down then you'd expect prices to increse, but the volumes spike at the times of the spike incresaes. So it can only be attributable to player value placed on them.
Also I see it as a partnership of any blame (if deserved) as it takes someone to sell them and someone to buy them for the market to be active.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 19:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wes Magyar wrote:And everyone seems to think i place blame entirely on Incursions. in my initial post i just stated that was the primary factor i noticed. But inflation overall has been occurring. But that being said can you point to any empirical evidence other then incursions that can explain the phenomenon? Sure there where spikes around the times of the expansion and the promotion "But" there has been a steady increase in prices even outside of those time periods, an increase of 200 million isk per is rather large. plexes have almost doubled in price. and they probably will if trends continue.
And eve's population has actually declined. not increased.
Sepculation and scaremonegering without proof. Could be more damaging due to erroneous reasoning.
I have explained a viable reason for the plex spikes due to behaviour with plex purchases and development/promotions, and supports it better due to co-incidental changes. Your problem is you havent associated that the majority of the isk and purchases are associated with incursion runners. I would consider there is more money to be injected from missioning/ratting overall by the vast majority of the databse that generates more isk than incurions. This will get sloshed around the game due to various isk transaction movements. And like I said the clearest indication we have is volumes of Plex involved.
Responsibility is on you to support your claims.
Also I remember seeing a recent graph from a CCP twitter about populations that suggested the playerbase had stagnated. Happy for you to actually present some proof for once to support another claim however.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 20:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Wes Magyar wrote:The market Data is in the client... The Volume of plexes on the market has stayed relatively the same and the price has raised by 200 million isk while actual sales have gone down. The price has increased relatively steadily since the incursion launch (with some spikes around the expansion and promotions) while mission payouts have gone down due to changes in the amount of loot that rats drop in the missions has decreased. (there where devblogs about that last year)
the information is there if you choose to look for yourself.
The prices have increased with spikes surrounding game changes, they are clear to see from the graph how they co-incide with features and promotions. Player attitudes due to these will change relative values accordingly surrounding plex.
Loot doesnt provide and isk faucet or sink, sale of goods/minerals only moves isk around it does nothing on an inflationary scale, it relates to bounties. Which given playerbase skill improvements and awareness you'd expect to see increase. Would help if you could grasp basic understanding here.
Last year isnt very relevant is it, other than it shows from the last QEN the relative isk injection associated with bounties as being the most significant, but seeing as this is prior to relevant game changes it can hardly be used to substantiate anything.
As far as I can see its a "strawman" for meta nerf of incursions, especially as no supporting evidence to prove the claims. Or its I go for the obvious thing rather than understanding EvE economy holistically. Not going to go round in circles with you about it.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 20:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wes Magyar wrote:lol your the one going in circles the simple matter of fact is there is inflation. plain and simple you cant deny that. prices have gone up. things cost more isk.
The fact that plexes cost 500 million isk per now proves that. the fact that just about everything costs twice as much. with maybe the exception of Minerals. ships cost more. ammo costs more. drones cost more. so on and so forth. i don't see any trends of this going down. that is a problem. do you not at least agree with that much?
Yes, and inflation was reported as 1% per month or 12% a year according to last CSM minutes reported by CCP. Which when you look at the figures of a change from 300 to 500 over the period of a year it is an increase of 66%. So it really doesn't add up does it as a progressive incremental change? Its nearly 6 times as relevant.
I don't disagree that inlfation is relevant, however I don't simply attribute it to your prefered scapegoat of incursions as the main issue.
Plenty of faucets to consider.
Sinks likley need to be evaluated and adjusted or new ones added likley are on an ongoing basis. (e.g npc tax increase)
People need to look at isk flow or movement as this can equally relate to "price changes" rather than just inflation. E.g. the dramiel has gone down due to changes. Theres also plenty of examples of items that have gone down in price aswell as remained static.
Again neglect to, griefing affecting infrastructure and loss of popularity in industrial professions might be affecting supply.
Also If people from industrial base transition to other activities it increases demand.
Increases in trends for PvP could be increasing demand.
Market manipulation by traders.
All these things can account for price increases without them all accountable due to inflation.
However, inflation will likely trend to price increases overall in the market or with contracted items or other payments and use. I just wouldn't plump for what seems obvious as being the explanation to where the main problem actually exists.
Griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems.
Stop EvE Apathy |
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