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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.27 12:50:00 -
[1]
Preamble
As many of you know I've been running a semi-private corp for about 9 months now. Since 1.85B of shares were first issued, market capitalization now stands at approximately 30B with shares held by 28 individuals and 1 corp (excluding alts and myself) We've grown gradually over that time in a number of different ventures. A large POS for alliance use near Rens; rig, T1 ship and capital production; invention; BPC sales; logistics services and of course trading. 100% of profits are paid out to shareholders which to date is total (cummulative) returns of 62% and 10,156,092,000 Isk.
The point being, I'm in it for the long haul and I have at least some idea how to make isk. Even though I spend most of my logged-in time AFK, and most of my playing time doing stuff not related to corp business operations 
Outline
Normally MMTAR expands by issuing new shares for the value of the assets to be acquired. Currently on the horizon are 2 projects that would complicate this process somewhat which is the reason for this post. Not all the assets acquired to get these projects off the ground will be kept long-term. This would lead to either shares being de-valued or a large amount of liquid isk sitting in the corp (mostly) idle and screwing up the books  Neither option is desriable, so I'm here to create a 3rd.
I'm looking to borrow 20B for the current project (the 2nd is likely months away, if ever, so don't need to deal with that now obviously).
- I'm looking to pay a fixed monthly interest rate.
- I anticipate the temporary part of the aquisition to be done within the first month allowing a 50% repayment to coincide with the first interest payment.
- Further repayments will coincide with subsequent interest payments until the debt is eliminated.
- Once the debt is reduced to only the value of the long-term assets a debt for equity exchange MAY be offered at the discretion of MMTAR and, if offered, will not be mandatory.
- Existing MMTAR shareholders will have first right of refusal on this offering. Some is already spoken for (and the requested amount adjusted) but the amount and short-ish notice will likely leave us well short
- There will be no shares issued for this debt! Tracking/interest/repayment will be done manually. For this reason participation will be limited to multiples of 100 million.
- Following the 50% repayment lenders may request full repayment on a FIFO basis as cash is available. Such repayments requested to be processed mid-month will receive interest pro-rated and rounded DOWN do the nearest 1 mil.
*IMPORTANT* If market forces dictate, the 50% repayment may be delayed until the 2nd month to ensure full value for the temporary assets being liquidated. I don't expect it to be necessary but better to have it in there now than create a panic later if it is.
What am I spending it on? I'd rather not specify here other than that it's an expansion of an existing business line, so yes I know I can make Isk. More specific, I'd only be willing to share with a large investor, but then exactly what's going on.
The Twist
Send no isk at this time!
The more observant of you will have noticed I don't mention what the interest rate will be. Those interested in particpating should Evemail this character stating the amount they are willing to lend and the desired rate. In the event more funds are offered than are required I will update this post with the current highest rate to achieve full funding so that people can adjust their bids if they wish 
Running out of characters for this post and some errands to run, so I'll reply with my main for ID confirmation and then fill that post out with some more info. Since I'm sure that by then the usual suspects will have replied with a barrage of FAQs  but for some reason this part took longer to type out than I expected so it'll have to wait a bit.
 Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.27 12:50:00 -
[2]
Confirming that Mr Minmatar is my CEO alt.
Originally by: CCP Explorer
This is intended, to not clutter the overview with information that new players don't need in their first few hours.
(on stargates not being on overview) |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:11:00 -
[3]
Create an EBANK Account (www.eve-bank.net) and apply for a loan. Read the FAQ for more details as well.
Accounts can be opened for 0.01 isk.
Interest charges are transparent and are updated daily.
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:19:00 -
[4]
I'm interested but it would be nice to have some idea of interest rate. 5%, 7%, 10%+? It's kind of critical...
I'm guessing yor're trying to do a sort of auction where whoever offers you the best rate for you gets the deal... bit of a wierd way to go about it but whatever.
I'll contact you in-game about this.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Henry Shirburn
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:48:00 -
[5]
i'm interested. what's the minimum you'd like from each investor?
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.02.27 13:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ambo
I'm interested but it would be nice to have some idea of interest rate. 5%, 7%, 10%+? It's kind of critical...
I'm guessing yor're trying to do a sort of auction where whoever offers you the best rate for you gets the deal... bit of a wierd way to go about it but whatever.
I'll contact you in-game about this.
The idea is to get the funding he requires at the lowest possible rate. You will be bidding in multiples of 100m and going down in interest rates to what you are happy with.
As a starting point I would assume you would have to bid UNDER what a loan would cost from EBank. I assume the OP is looking for <7.5%.
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Raskor
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Posted - 2008.02.27 14:08:00 -
[7]
You might want to look at this thread.
It took a little bit for people to get the hang of it but that auction style proved successful.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.27 18:57:00 -
[8]
It seems to me whenever things are handled through eve-mail and not out in the open via forum posts the situation is ripe for abuse. No one has any way of knowing if the bids are real, etc.
Why can't people just post their offers here at the rates they wish to pay. If someone wishes to underbid them they can. Let this go on until a certain date, then collect money. Doing it privately is not the way to go and would definitely keep me from even thinking about investing.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.02.27 19:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadarle
It seems to me whenever things are handled through eve-mail and not out in the open via forum posts the situation is ripe for abuse. No one has any way of knowing if the bids are real, etc.
Why can't people just post their offers here at the rates they wish to pay. If someone wishes to underbid them they can. Let this go on until a certain date, then collect money. Doing it privately is not the way to go and would definitely keep me from even thinking about investing.
^^this^^
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.27 20:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shadarle
It seems to me whenever things are handled through eve-mail and not out in the open via forum posts the situation is ripe for abuse. No one has any way of knowing if the bids are real, etc.
Why can't people just post their offers here at the rates they wish to pay. If someone wishes to underbid them they can. Let this go on until a certain date, then collect money. Doing it privately is not the way to go and would definitely keep me from even thinking about investing.
I strongly agree, transparency is always a good thing.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.02.27 20:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
I strongly agree, transparency is always a good thing.
Except for stop signs.
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Why do it the hard way when you can do it the AMARR way. |
Nicole Maher
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Posted - 2008.02.27 23:52:00 -
[12]
I'll talk to you ingame.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.28 00:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Ambo
The idea is to get the funding he requires at the lowest possible rate. You will be bidding in multiples of 100m and going down in interest rates to what you are happy with.
As a starting point I would assume you would have to bid UNDER what a loan would cost from EBank. I assume the OP is looking for <7.5%.
Largely correct. The truth is banks are a scam, so I'd prefer not to deal with them on principle. Not just in Eve, I even use a Credit Union in RL, so let's not have anybody take offence to that .
There's also the matter of collateral. Most corp assets are used on a daily basis and it would not be practical to transfer them. Neither I nor my corpmates have an army of alts to make use of them elsewhere. There are some items that could be escrowed to a 3rd party, but nowhere close to 100% coverage.
As for interest rate, I know what rate I could break even, what rate would allow me to make early profits for shareholders and what rate some investors seem content with buying shares/bonds on the markets. Yes, lower is clearly better for MMTAR. Then again, I may have dealt with a number of individuals and corps but not with the broad public, so this method also allows each lender to way risk vs reward for themselves.
Originally by: shadarle
Why can't people just post their offers here at the rates they wish to pay.
I never said they couldn't, my intent was merely to direct which character those desiring privacy should contact. When the time comes this will be the character gathering the isk so easier organization to keep all the information in one place on my end.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:22:00 -
[14]
Just edited the OP. Changed amount to be borrowed from the public from 20B to 12B. This 40% reduction means interest payments will be less of an impediment to ongoing operations so I also removed the 50% 1st month repayment target. Repayments will now simply be made as much and as early as practical on anniversary dates as was going to happen anyway after that initial target.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
|
Mr Minmatar
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.02 22:55:00 -
[15]
Have received some interest on this, but not enough to proceed yet.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:25:00 -
[16]
Just realized I hadn't updated this. Got a bit distracted keeping the business running smoothly during 2 weeks of wardecs (and a bit of PvP fun on SonOfAGhost as well  ).
Anyway, the deal fell through, the seller changed their mind  . For anyone interested in how my experiment in financing worked out, we did eventually achieve full coverage with intial interest bids all between 7 and 8%. No point seeing how the bidding part would have worked out since there's nothing left to buy. Should another opportunity arise that can't be funded in a timely manner by current shareholders I'd certainly consider trying it again.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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Hexxx
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:34:00 -
[17]
Maybe next you could try a Bank (BMBE, EBANK, or FuryBank) and avoid all the headaches and delays. 
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Roguehalo
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2008.03.24 13:59:00 -
[18]
I have no problem with the auction for you to get the best interest rate but, as several previous posts have stated, please do it publicly for the sake of transparency
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Mr Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.25 01:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mr Minmatar on 25/03/2008 01:35:27
Originally by: Hexxx
Maybe next you could try a Bank (BMBE, EBANK, or FuryBank) and avoid all the headaches and delays.
Hehe, shameless as always Hexxx, how much to hire you to market MMTAR products and services?
Originally by: Roguehalo
I have no problem with the auction for you to get the best interest rate but, as several previous posts have stated, please do it publicly for the sake of transparency
As I said a few posts up, the intent was to provide the option to those wishing privacy and direct their mails all to the same character, not to make it a requirement. I suppose the OP should have somehow been phrased more clearly.
Frankly, I was quite surprised that was the only means by which I received interest from outside my existing shareholders. Nobody from outside that group even convoed either of my characters for further discussion much less posting here. I at the very least expected a lot more questions before being offered that much investment isk. Flattering yet worrying at the same time, odd.
Originally by: Fabricati Diem
Raising the issue in this forum is akin to a gazelle appealing to lions about the predatory tactics of leopards.
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Hexxx
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mr Minmatar
Edited by: Mr Minmatar on 25/03/2008 01:35:27
Originally by: Hexxx
Maybe next you could try a Bank (BMBE, EBANK, or FuryBank) and avoid all the headaches and delays.
Hehe, shameless as always Hexxx, how much to hire you to market MMTAR products and services?
Yeah...except I was serious. Time is money, and you wasted it trying to find an alternative to the traditional Bank loan strategy. If you saved some money somehow in doing so, I just hope it balances out for your sake.
Paranoia is only occassionaly useful as a survival trait. A man wiser than myself once said, "Fortune favors the bold" and I believe this to be true. 
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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