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Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 16:23:00 -
[1]
Are there businesses out there renting BPOÆs for a fee?
I would like to rent a researched Capital Construction Parts BPO for one week. The one I have is in the research lab and I would like to continue my Freighter production. I offer to pay 14 M for the weeks rental; thatÆs equivalent to a 6.12% monthly ROI. Rental fee is negotiable. Please contact me or leave a post if you have a BPO collecting dust in your hangar and would like to rent it.
Also, I would like to know what other BPOÆs are available for rental.
Thanks in advanced.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.28 16:54:00 -
[2]
Nice idea but as far as I know there aren't any corps currently doing this.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
No Mahd
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:00:00 -
[3]
Once having rented a BPO - why would you give it back?
Is there something inbuilt into the game that allows this - or does it have to be based on trust?
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:08:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: No Mahd
Once having rented a BPO - why would you give it back?
Is there something inbuilt into the game that allows this - or does it have to be based on trust?
You would do it the same way you rent ships. There's a type of contract where you put down cash collateral, a fee and a time and after the time expires either the item or the ISK goes to the owner, if memory serves.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: No Mahd
Once having rented a BPO - why would you give it back?
Is there something inbuilt into the game that allows this - or does it have to be based on trust?
Yes, it would have to be based on trust. The BPO in question is worth about 915 M ISK.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Ghost Emperor
Amarr
EvE Mutual Fund Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:22:00 -
[6]
My main can lend you the BPO...where are you based...eve mail me :)
EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange EMFI blog at: http://emfi.blogspot.com/ |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:22:00 -
[7]
Why not buy BPC's? You could get about 15 runs off BPC's for 15 mil. Granted you may need more runs then that... in which case you should really offer more than 15 mil, as 6.12% monthly ROI is quite low. The person would prob make more running his own copies.
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Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: No Mahd
Once having rented a BPO - why would you give it back?
Is there something inbuilt into the game that allows this - or does it have to be based on trust?
I think Loan contract should work well. It lets you set collateral, price for renting the item and number of days after it must be returned. I never tried it with BPOs though (only with ships).
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 21:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shadarle
Why not buy BPC's? You could get about 15 runs off BPC's for 15 mil. Granted you may need more runs then that... in which case you should really offer more than 15 mil, as 6.12% monthly ROI is quite low. The person would prob make more running his own copies.
If I were to build Freighters using 1 Mil per run BPCs I would make about 10 Mil per Freighter.
6.12% is an average return for a Freighter manufacturing business. Not sure why I should pay more than what I get out of it. There is no point to pay more than my loss due to research delay.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.28 22:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Block Ukx
If I were to build Freighters using 1 Mil per run BPCs I would make about 10 Mil per Freighter.
Yes, but currently your other BPO's are yielding 0% returns because you don't have this one... so paying 1 mil per would allow you to continue profiting off the other BPO's.
Originally by: Block Ukx
6.12% is an average return for a Freighter manufacturing business. Not sure why I should pay more than what I get out of it. There is no point to pay more than my loss due to research delay.
I find it shocking that you're making only 6.12% with freighter production and yet you're still producing them, especially considering the sell prices on them are dropping so much as of late.
But I agree, if someone is going to give you the BPO for such a low amount you should take it. But considering you don't want to pay more than you make from the overall production, why should anyone else take less than they can make selling BPC's?
Basically you're lucky someone has stepped forward that cares less about ISK than he does about helping you. Because if he wanted to maximize his ISK he'd just be running copies.
Finally, I'm sure you realize that paying more than 6% on 900 mil in order to make 6% on 6 bil (or so) is still a profit... compared to making nothing on that 6 bil. But again, someone is willing to give you the BPO for this low amount so I guess there are people out there willing to make less than optimal profits, even if you aren't.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 22:39:00 -
[11]
While sales margins are about 25%, because of the capital needed to operate a freighter business, the return on investment is on average 6%. This applies not only to me but to anyone building Freighters.
If you are lucky enough to be selling BPCs at 1 Mil, then this offer is definitely not for you. However you need to realize that at 1 Mil BPCs, Freighter Cost which in this case is mineral cost plus BPCs cost equals current market price. So BPCs are for people that mine their own minerals or that donÆt mind the extra cost to build in 0.0.
My offer is a pro-rated value of what the BPO provides the business. I think it is a fair offer and not a low amount as you describe it.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.02.28 23:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Block Ukx
So BPCs are for people that mine their own minerals.
Please tell me you understand why this is complete nonsense.
Your second reason as well as a few others are the reasons people buy BPC's, mining minerals yourself has nothing to do with it as it doesn't change the price at all.
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 23:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shadarle
Please tell me you understand why this is complete nonsense.
As a nonsense as it sounds, I know a lot of people that mine their own minerals with the sole purpose to build their own ships using BPCs.
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Shadarle
Please tell me you understand why this is complete nonsense.
As a nonsense as it sounds, I know a lot of people that mine their own minerals with the sole purpose to build their own ships using BPCs.
the mind boggles!!!
Are these the same people who mine Omber to get Isogen?
Hey that is why there are rich people and poor people!!
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.02.29 04:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 29/02/2008 04:58:19
BIG (?) did something kinda like that with T2 BPOs,, cept you bought "part" of the BPO and got BPCs regularly
Improve Market Competition! |
Poison
House of Kobal
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Poison on 02/03/2008 02:39:29
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Block Ukx
So BPCs are for people that mine their own minerals.
Please tell me you understand why this is complete nonsense.
Your second reason as well as a few others are the reasons people buy BPC's, mining minerals yourself has nothing to do with it as it doesn't change the price at all.
When people where just starting to get into BS before they had limited run bpc people use to offer byom deals plus isk for corps to make bs. Well limited run bpc where made to one to prevent everyone from having an unlimited copy and two prevent scams from corps taking the minerals and not giving the ship.
BPC is a safe way of making ships and not having to move minerals. I know it sounds weird but some people feel more stronger with there first ship if they made it.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Poison
I know it sounds weird but some people feel more stronger with there first ship if they made it.
It isn't strange at all, it is idiotic.
The same kind of people travel 25 jumps to save 10,000 isk on a module instead of buying it in the station they were in. Thus losing 1 hour or more in travel time that they could have spent running even a single level 1 mission to make more ISK than that.
You can call it "strange" or "peculiar" but really it is just a lack of intelligence. There is no reason to sugar coat it. No different then someone who travels 10 more miles to buy gas for 2 cents less per gallon.
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Poison
House of Kobal
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Posted - 2008.03.02 03:41:00 -
[18]
It isn't strange at all, it is idiotic.
The same kind of people travel 25 jumps to save 10,000 isk on a module instead of buying it in the station they were in. Thus losing 1 hour or more in travel time that they could have spent running even a single level 1 mission to make more ISK than that.
You can call it "strange" or "peculiar" but really it is just a lack of intelligence. There is no reason to sugar coat it. No different then someone who travels 10 more miles to buy gas for 2 cents less per gallon.
Well just because you dont think its a good idea does not mean its idiotic. Sure i would not want to jump 5-10 jumps to save even 2m isk. But just because someone wants to does not mean they are idiotic. Just because someone wants to build there own ship spending days solo mining does not make mean they lack intelligence. Just because block wants to borrow a bpo and not pay more then 6% then thats fine. If not one wants to take him up then so be it.
People play eve to have fun and not to be judged.
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.03.02 04:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 29/02/2008 04:58:19
BIG (?) did something kinda like that with T2 BPOs,, cept you bought "part" of the BPO and got BPCs regularly
They still off the "BIG Deal" but it only relates to Battleship BPO's
Link here
Which in todays market with invention is a pretty decent idea. I wonder if they get many offers. Or if there is any demand for this now that invention pretty much requires BPC's.
Amarr for Life |
Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.03.02 07:24:00 -
[20]
The BIG Deal is still very much alive. From what I hear it's doing well. But I can tell you that contracting all those BPCs is no idle task. Sure glad it's not me doing it anymore.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.02 07:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Shadarle on 02/03/2008 07:42:32
The Big Deal appears to be The Big Ripoff. Or perhaps The Big Profit Maker For The Founders And Poor Investment For Everyone Else, otherwise known as NAMBLA.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.03.02 10:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shadarle
The Big Deal appears to be The Big Ripoff. Or perhaps The Big Profit Maker For The Founders And Poor Investment For Everyone Else, otherwise known as NAMBLA.
Nice unqualified comment there. It seems any time someone turns a profit in a venture it's assumed a rip-off for the investors.
The BIG Deal was started back, way back, before the NPC market was affected by a 10% window. So from the outset it was very much beneficial to the investor, rather than the founders. Prices were in line for an exact 1/10th share of the price of a BPO.
Sine the 10% window has started affecting prices it was deemed safe to keep the existing price matrix, paying 10% over board is nothing unique. And when the tier 3 BPOs were released they were at the full base price, which is what most of the ones obtained by the BIG Deal were bought at.
The BIG Deal has also been running for something near 3 years, and pays out BPCs every week (give our take some periodic lapses) with no charges for research. As a long term investment I don't see how you could call this a rip-off.
But again, thanks for qualifying your statement, Shadarle, and looking at the bigger picture.
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Jaarlax
Ratty Corp PLC
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:04:00 -
[23]
BIG deal works, when your starting out you cant afford 1bn for a bs bpo, but you can buy a slice of one with BD, so the bs you make are just that bit more profitable.
according to my market dump of an hour ago, i'm worth umm well desent amount (12 figures), and that only came about from my first big deal (i did a few), a dominix, it took me a week of scrounging to get the mins to build one in time for my bpc to be ready, then a ferry trip to yulai to sell, till i made enough to get the bpo.
It's not for everyone, but in the right place it can be all you need to get going!
as for the BPO rental, there are 1 or 2 that rent t2 bpo's, not seen any that do t1.
if your margins are to tight to warrent bpc's, i'd leave it, build extra from the other cap bpo's to give you some stock, then once the bpo is out of the lab you'll be able to use the stockpile and rotate the others through the labs without interupting construction.
if i was feeling nasty, i could point out it was a bit short sighted to lab the bpo with a freighter due without making plans to cover it's absence.......but i'm not so i wont say anything.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.02 17:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Shadarle
The Big Deal appears to be The Big Ripoff. Or perhaps The Big Profit Maker For The Founders And Poor Investment For Everyone Else, otherwise known as NAMBLA.
Nice unqualified comment there. It seems any time someone turns a profit in a venture it's assumed a rip-off for the investors.
The BIG Deal was started back, way back, before the NPC market was affected by a 10% window. So from the outset it was very much beneficial to the investor, rather than the founders. Prices were in line for an exact 1/10th share of the price of a BPO.
Sine the 10% window has started affecting prices it was deemed safe to keep the existing price matrix, paying 10% over board is nothing unique. And when the tier 3 BPOs were released they were at the full base price, which is what most of the ones obtained by the BIG Deal were bought at.
The BIG Deal has also been running for something near 3 years, and pays out BPCs every week (give our take some periodic lapses) with no charges for research. As a long term investment I don't see how you could call this a rip-off.
But again, thanks for qualifying your statement, Shadarle, and looking at the bigger picture.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that because something was a good idea 3 years ago that it still has to be a good idea! I bow to your grandfathered experience.
Now, living in the world of today, this yields some pretty massive returns for the people running it. We have Advanced Mobile Labs now, new implants, easy access to BPC's, more information, more efficient markets, etc.
I don't fault the people who ran it, I just fault anyone who still uses it to this day.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.03.02 19:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shadarle
I don't fault the people who ran it, I just fault anyone who still uses it to this day.
Why? Nothing has changed for the investor, it's just a more profitable venture for those that run it. That certainly doesn't make it a bad investment.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.02 19:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Why? Nothing has changed for the investor,
Back in the day, being able to get 1 BPC a week for 1/10th the cost of the BPO was decent.
It's not anymore for many reasons. First, it's not 1/10th the cost anymore. Second you aren't even coming close to getting 1 out of every 10 BPC's produced, you're getting 1 out of every 18 or so BPC's produced. Basically you're getting 1/18th of a BPO for 1/9th the cost. Or in other words you're getting half of the value of your investment.
Any person with 108 mil to invest for a Raven share in this would be far better off buying cheaper BPO's and working with those until they had 1 bil to buy the Raven BPO themselves.
That said, most of the people who buy BS BPO's are making an incredibly tiny profit margin off them. Most of which are probably making on the order of 1-2% monthly off the BPO's if not less. Very few are making even 5% off them. So I don't really expect much from new producers... they tend to not be incredibly good at math.
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