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Feral
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Posted - 2004.04.05 17:10:00 -
[1]
It appears that some people are using insta-complete missions to spam their agents and earn massive rewards from l3 agents. Just looking at the Willpower implant market compared to the others displays this. In an effort to bring this under control, could we please have the L3 agent mission timers brought back, at 5mins between missions?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 17:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 05/04/2004 17:19:37
Seconded.
Issue being raised (hopefully).
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Feral
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Posted - 2004.04.05 17:20:00 -
[3]
Papsmurf has posted Here that this is an exploit.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 17:44:00 -
[4]
..and remember that all anybody has to do to spot exploitation of this is to look at agent transactions. The agents info~ points directly at who, confirmation is off your own Character transactions info~.
"There's nowhere to hide."
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Kakita Jalaan
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Posted - 2004.04.05 17:59:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
..and remember that all anybody has to do to spot exploitation of this is to look at agent transactions. The agents info~ points directly at who, confirmation is off your own Character transactions info~.
"There's nowhere to hide."
Not everyone reads these forums, so you can either raise public awareness by posting something in the in-game news (which you are all but forced to read at char selection) and THEN coming with the ban-bat, or just close the exploit and that's that.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 18:43:00 -
[6]
not something I can do.. and upon consideration of the issue im not sure they can do anything except fix it tbh.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.04.05 21:02:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Papsmurf has posted Here that this is an exploit.
And who's gonna report the exploit?
Are the devs gonna do a DB query to find the exploiters.... I think not
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.04.05 21:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 05/04/2004 21:23:56
Quote:
It appears that some people are using insta-complete missions to spam their agents and earn massive rewards from l3 agents. Just looking at the Willpower implant market compared to the others displays this. In an effort to bring this under control, could we please have the L3 agent mission timers brought back, at 5mins between missions?
Massive rewards? You want my collection of shuttles and 75mm Railgun 1 blueprints, or maybe the xxxxxx numbers of small ammo bp's. Or how about my collection of frozen food that could probably feed the starved all over the world. Or how about tons of consumer electronics, antibiotics, or maybe some oxygen will do you nice? How about some mines? or basic cap rechargers?
Have you ever considered the amount of agent runners doing courier missions in corps's that got r&d agents? Or got r&d agents as aim? those corps's gives out mostly WILLPOWER implants. I have agents who give me kill missions as well, kill missions within same system as agent, wich can happen several times in a row how is that any better? The corp I got highest standing with, 9.84.. do you think I got that just by doing instant missions all the time? get real  there is so many taking their mouth full without any knowhow at all.
Please go out and do thousand++ missions, then come back and tell us how easy it was with all the instant missions, sigh.
Btw, looked you up ingame, you are in the Kaalakiota Corperation. a standing of 2.53... Now this corp give out WILLPOWER implant missions, now tell me. How many instant missions do you do for this corp? My current standing with them is 4.96, I had ONE implant mission from them. Guess how many missions in total? About 200 missions wich I probably had 10 instant.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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SC0RPY
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Posted - 2004.04.05 21:22:00 -
[9]
Well i dont know what to say :)
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 22:37:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Quote:
Papsmurf has posted Here that this is an exploit.
And who's gonna report the exploit?
Are the devs gonna do a DB query to find the exploiters.... I think not
erm - why not? its not hard is it?
Look up agent X at station Y, details allready supplied, then see their letest transactions records to find the individual chars. You can do it - i can do it, aint no hassle for the devs to do it a lot easier.
Or do you think its right and fair that people cna rake in 5 or 6 million an hour and 10+ implants a day?
Honestly sometimes people just cant think beyond their own noses.
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Feral
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Posted - 2004.04.05 22:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Feral on 05/04/2004 22:42:21
Quote:
Btw, looked you up ingame, you are in the Kaalakiota Corperation. a standing of 2.53... Now this corp give out WILLPOWER implant missions, now tell me. How many instant missions do you do for this corp? My current standing with them is 4.96, I had ONE implant mission from them. Guess how many missions in total? About 200 missions wich I probably had 10 instant.
If you looked me up in game, I suggest you look harder next time. Home Guard Corp rating: 9.96, Lai Dai Corp rating: 9.31, Caldari State Standing: 8.47. Just cos I am in Kaala Corp doesnt mean I do missions for them. For your information, since you think I havent done many missions and dont know what I am talking about, I have been doing missions since last September. I had a Shield Booster Amp BP by October.
Quote:
Please go out and do thousand++ missions, then come back and tell us how easy it was with all the instant missions, sigh
Been there, done that. Havent used insta missions. Papasmurf might be able to tell me how many missions I have done, but I lost count a loooong time ago.
Edit: typo corrections
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 22:50:00 -
[12]
Ruffio I dont think you are understnading the problem here. THisisnt about the odd insta-mission being wrong.
How about I told you that people are doing 5 or 6 mission per minute? All at a profit, many with additional rewards and bonuses.. and then also getting 8 to 10 implants a day on top of all that.
Thats what Feral is talking about.
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Ooke
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Posted - 2004.04.05 23:20:00 -
[13]
at a huge profit I can see this being a problem, but how long does it take you to gather millions of ores and minerals to 1 station, whether that's buy or mine them. There is still significant overhead involved. and no agent only gives out buy missions that I've found.
and for the record all the implants I've gotten from research corps have been Int implants, not willpower.
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
AbraKadaver
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Posted - 2004.04.05 23:25:00 -
[14]
But some missions such as killing a single target in the same system dont actually take that long and this could be misconstrued as an exploit 
..:: Electro-shock therapy ::..
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.05 23:45:00 -
[15]
Quote:
But some missions such as killing a single target in the same system dont actually take that long and this could be misconstrued as an exploit
Nope, not really - you cant do 5 or 6 of those missions inside one minute can you?
Quote:
at a huge profit I can see this being a problem, but how long does it take you to gather millions of ores and minerals to 1 station, whether that's buy or mine them. There is still significant overhead involved.
Erm.. the required effort is minimal compared to the potential gain... Im not saying anything more on *how* or everybody will be doing it... but it takes no time at all in comparison to the earnings and it vastly outweighs anything you can do with any other agent in normal circumstances/gameplay.
Quote:
and no agent only gives out buy missions that I've found.
Im not going to promote the exact activity that is going on, lets just say i looked into it myself and its easily done, hugely profitable and obviously being exploited to its fullest potential.
Its an inherent weakness in the (otherwise) fairly solid system that needs plugging, it quite specific and can be fixed by reintroducing a timer limit onto agents - it only needs to be small, 3 or 4 minutes to not really affect anybody else.
The practical reality of doing even the quickest same-system kill mission is still about 3-4 minutes. Being able to do, lets say best/worst case, 15-24 missions in that time in comparison, well, I dont see why or how anybody can complain at such a huge hole being plugged.
(Other than those currently hammering it for all they are worth)
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Kakita Jalaan
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Posted - 2004.04.05 23:46:00 -
[16]
Let's keep the discussion to one thread, makes it easier to follow everything that's said. My vote goes for the longer one, where PS posted as well. See Feral's post above for the link.
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Aldelphius
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Posted - 2004.04.05 23:58:00 -
[17]
umm, wp implants have been cheaper than dirt since castor. why? the lack of wp skills, thats why. if these insta missions were causing a real problem, there would be cheap implants of all kinds.
only real problem i see is the increased supply of t2 components, leading to reduced prices and reduced prices of t2 modules....wait, is that really a bad thing???
if its not one complaint its another, and if this is the worst thing people can come up with, then i think its doin alright.
you can please some people all the time,
and all the people some of the time,
but never all the people all the time.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.04.06 00:00:00 -
[18]
Quote:
If you looked me up in game, I suggest you look harder next time. Home Guard Corp rating: 9.96, Lai Dai Corp rating: 9.31, Caldari State Standing: 8.47. Just cos I am in Kaala Corp doesnt mean I do missions for them. For your information, since you think I havent done many missions and dont know what I am talking about, I have been doing missions since last September. I had a Shield Booster Amp BP by October.
Kaala corp was the only corp we both had in common wich I could refer too, and wich you MIGHT had some experience with regarding instant missions. Didnt mean to come on as strong as I did 
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.04.06 15:41:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Papsmurf has posted Here that this is an exploit.
And who's gonna report the exploit?
Are the devs gonna do a DB query to find the exploiters.... I think not
erm - why not? its not hard is it?
Look up agent X at station Y, details allready supplied, then see their letest transactions records to find the individual chars. You can do it - i can do it, aint no hassle for the devs to do it a lot easier.
Or do you think its right and fair that people cna rake in 5 or 6 million an hour and 10+ implants a day?
Honestly sometimes people just cant think beyond their own noses.
If you think I'm not against this exploit you're badly mistaken.
I know it might be "easy" to look up the exploiters, I just don't think they will look into it that's all. And it's not because I believe they have better things to do either. Their track record show that they won't -bar the Zor mission exploit... but then did anyone get banned for that in the end?
Don't rush into attacking what ppl say
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3names
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Posted - 2004.04.06 20:24:00 -
[20]
So are we saying that if my agent wants Trit im not allowed to refine a batch of the otherwise total useless shuttles,
that I have to go mine the stuff ?
Please dont think Im all for any exploit im not, but lets try and keep sensible limits on whats called an exploit. By all means put a timer between missions or stop mutlple drops of the same items that nobody wants to buy and it now appears you cant refine. 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.06 20:27:00 -
[21]
Quote:
So are we saying that if my agent wants Trit im not allowed to refine a batch of the otherwise total useless shuttles,
that I have to go mine the stuff ?
Please dont think Im all for any exploit im not, but lets try and keep sensible limits on whats called an exploit. By all means put a timer between missions or stop mutlple drops of the same items that nobody wants to buy and it now appears you cant refine.
eh?
Who said anything about not being able to refine stuff?
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methuselah
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Posted - 2004.04.06 22:25:00 -
[22]
Why not just add more other mission types to "miner" agents to reduce the frequency of these missions? Is anticipating my research agents' needs also an "exploit"? Please don't add a timer between missions it sucks to have to sit there doing nothing. Until you fix the "colossal bad luck" issue I'm not going to start running multiple agents (again). Personaly, I think the market is taking care of the surplus of willpower implants, they are worth significantly less than the others. Although this is partially due to the fact that a lot of research corps give out willpower implants too. If you look at this link showing implants by corp, you'll notice that there are twice as many corps giving out willpower implants as there are for any other implant type.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.06 22:34:00 -
[23]
Once again - i am not sure you appreaciate the issue here. Its got nothing to do with completing the odd instant mission.
Its about doing 5-8 per minute, over a period of hours. Where the normal pay and the bonus pay outweighs any costs, where that and bonus materials add up to many millions per hour and where, on top of all that, relatively massive numbers of implants are being generated by exploitation of the system, per day.
How you think the massive price slump in WIllpower Implants is "ok" to the guy who legitimately worked for 8 hours to get just one I really don't know.
I dont see how people can support the idea of being able to do 8 missions a minute for huge profits and mutliple implants per day as being "right"... and crusade for it to be not changed.
It makes me wonder if people actually read the thread at all, or even stop to appreciate the issue.
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methuselah
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Posted - 2004.04.06 23:15:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Once again - i am not sure you appreaciate the issue here. Its got nothing to do with completing the odd instant mission.
Its about doing 5-8 per minute, over a period of hours. Where the normal pay and the bonus pay outweighs any costs, where that and bonus materials add up to many millions per hour and where, on top of all that, relatively massive numbers of implants are being generated by exploitation of the system, per day.
How you think the massive price slump in WIllpower Implants is "ok" to the guy who legitimately worked for 8 hours to get just one I really don't know.
I dont see how people can support the idea of being able to do 8 missions a minute for huge profits and mutliple implants per day as being "right"... and crusade for it to be not changed.
It makes me wonder if people actually read the thread at all, or even stop to appreciate the issue.
Yes we read the thread, stop whining. If you read my post, I am all for reducing the frequency of insta-complete missions. However of the 50+ agents I work for, I've never encountered one where you could repeatedly insta-complete missions for a minute, let alone "hours". I have no sympathy for people farming implants. If that's all you want, it is much faster to mine and buy them. If agent runners want to make a career out of harvesting implants from agents, then they will need to switch to a different corp to get a more valuable type of implant. Since the other implant corps lack these insta-complete mission agents, then there is no problem.
What I do have a problem with is reinstating the 15 minute delay between lvl3 agent missions, that sucked and I am glad it is gone.
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Ooke
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Posted - 2004.04.06 23:35:00 -
[25]
even 1 minute would be ok, 15 sucked.
I think I understand "how" it's done, with very specific agents and rejecting unwanted missions.
I still like the idea of scenario mining missions where you actually have to do some mining, that would most effectively throw a wrench in the system... (course coding up new types of things to mine isn't exactly the fastest or easiest way though...)
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.06 23:55:00 -
[26]
Quote:
What I do have a problem with is reinstating the 15 minute delay between lvl3 agent missions.
Who said they were?
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MasterTao
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Posted - 2004.04.07 00:06:00 -
[27]
Actually it would average out, cause after an average of 8-10 missions, an important mission would pop out and you would have to do it unless you want to take big standing hit. And that takes at least 20-30 minutes.
So in an hour you would probably get to do only 20 standard missions and 1-2 important ones. The implant mission are more annoying that others as it takes a long time and you can hardly sell it.
Of course i agree somethign need to change, but give advance agent runners some constant big money making opportunites. Miner gets to mine mega/zyd and get rich, npc hunters can go farm BS and sell those components. Agents can.... hmm I dunno what agents can do except those few getting lucky on the tech2 bpos...
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.04.07 01:24:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Actually it would average out, cause after an average of 8-10 missions, an important mission would pop out and you would have to do it unless you want to take big standing hit. And that takes at least 20-30 minutes.
So in an hour you would probably get to do only 20 standard missions and 1-2 important ones. The implant mission are more annoying that others as it takes a long time and you can hardly sell it
Try checking out their transactions. You will change almost everything you just wrote.
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Kerosene
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Posted - 2004.04.07 02:35:00 -
[29]
I've been half thinking about posting something but wasn't sure which side of the fence I stood on. I had a think about it last night and come up with this..
Mining missions still require work because you need to buy/mine minerals and ore in order to be able to frontload mining missions. That said, it's had the following effects..
1. People putting buy orders at stations for higher than normal prices to ensure a steady supply of minerals.
2. This in turn boosting/knackering mineral markets.
3. Implants easier to get so a lot cheaper now. (Unsure whether that's a good or bad thing)
4. People becoming very rich for very little work.
imo, this isn't an exploit but unfortunately my opinion doesn't count. The devs unfortunately didn't quite have the crystal ball required to see what would happen so they programmed lvl 3 mining missions to be like any other. I would argue that the profit/bonus/implant's should be reduced for these missions and the standing gain be minimal to keep in line with the risk/reward curve.
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Durin
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Posted - 2004.04.07 05:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Durin on 07/04/2004 05:51:36
I would say the cash reward can be a bit much for mining missions, I usually get anywhere between 2 and 4 times market value (depending on mission bonus) I actually tried doing the agent missions for alonger time, and I must agree with Morkt Drakt that getting implants is too easy, I got 4 implants in just as many hours, and even while they are practically worthless, this is just too much.
I think the best solution would be to just adjust the rewards for agent missions, and reduce the frequency of important mission on mining agents. Also, lower the ammount of standing you get from mining missions. That way you can still mine in advance (like I do) and do missions for them, but buying the minerals and ores at high prices will be less atractive. Demanding that people only mine the ammount the agent asks is ofcourse just stupid.
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