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ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu on 02/03/2008 14:15:59
After seeing this discussion I thought I'd put together some statistics from the first two days, looking at the usage and success rates of logistics vessels.
Keep in mind that IÆm a reporter, not a statistician, thereÆs probably some errors.
Keep in mind also that success rate depends on many things, not just whether or not you field logistics. Some matches almost went the other way û statistics only tell one part of a far more complex story. The win percentages are just included for some additional information to discuss.
We hope to bring you some more statistics as part of our coverage of the tournament. You can expect a few articles featuring various stats and information when itÆs all over. One can only hope that theyÆre not written by poor mathematically-challenged Tsuki.
I've not drawn any conclusions from these numbers, that's for you guys to do. Us reporters are completely neutral and lacking opinion, after all. 
Matches 1-8
1: No logistics û Cruisers Vs HAC/Support
2: No logistics û BS/HAC Vs BS/Support
3: No logistics û HAC/Support Vs BS/BC/Support
4: 1 logistics û BC/HAC/Basilisk/Cruiser/Inty Vs HAC/Support û Logistics team loses.
5: No logistics û BS/Support Vs BS/Support
6: 1 logistics û BS/Support Vs BS/HAC/Guardian/Support û Logistics team wins.
7: 2 logistics û BC/Recon/2 Guardians Vs BS/BC/Support û Logistics team wins.
8: No logistics û Recon/Cruiser/Support Vs BS/BC/Support
2 x Single logistics teams. (12.5%)
1 x Dual-logistics team. (6.25%)
13 x No logistics teams. (81.25%)
50% success rate for single logistic teams. (1 win out of 2 times fielded)
100% success rate for dual logistics teams (1 win out of 1 times fielded)
66% success rate for teams fielding logistics. (2 wins out of 3 times fielded)
Matches 9-16
9: 2 Logistics û BS/Cruiser Vs Recon/HAC/2 Guardians/Support û Logistics team wins
10: No logistics û BC/Cruisers Vs HAC/Support
11: 3 Logistics û BS/Cruisers/Basilisk/Support Vs 2 Basilisk/Support û Dual logistics team wins.
12: No logistics û BC/Support Vs Cruisers
13: 3 Logistics û Cruisers/Guardian/Support Vs BC/2 Oneiros/Cruisers û Dual logistics team wins.
14: 3 Logistics û BS/Recon/Basilisk/Support Vs BS/2 Guardians/Support û Dual logistics team wins.
15: 3 Logistics û 2 Basilisks/7 Support Vs BC/Basilisk/Support û Dual logistics team wins.
16: 1 Logistics û HAC/Oneiros/Support Vs BC/Cruiser/Support û Logistics team loses.
5 x Single logistics teams. (31.25%)
5 x Dual logistics teams. (31.25%)
6 x No logistics teams. (37.5%)
0% success rate for single logistic teams. (0 wins out of 5 times fielded)
100% success rate for dual logistics teams (5 wins out of 5 times fielded)
50% Success rate for teams fielding logistics. (5 wins out of 10 times fielded)
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ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu on 02/03/2008 14:14:30
Matches 17-24
17: 2 Logistics û BS/Recon/Cruiser Vs BS/2 Guardians/Support û Logistics team wins.
18: No logistics û HAC/Support Vs BS/Recon/Support
19: No logistics û HAC/Support Vs BC/HAC/Support
20: 4 Logistics û 2 Basilisks/HAC/Support Vs 2 Basilisks/Cruisers/Support û Dual logistics team with Phantasms alphaÆing like mad takes the win.
21: 3 Logistics û BS/2 Basilisks/Recon/Support Vs BS/Guardian/HAC/Recon û Draw.
22: 2 Logistics û Cruiser/Support Vs BS/2 Basilisks/Support û Logistics team wins.
23: 2 Logistics û BS/2 Guardians/Support Vs BS/Support û Logistics team wins.
24: 2 Logistics û BS/Support Vs 2 Basilisks/BC/Cruisers û Logistics team loses.
1 x Single logistic team. (6.25%)
7 x Dual logistics teams. (43.75%)
8 x No logistics teams. (50%)
0% success rate for single logistic teams. (0 wins out of 1 times fielded)
43% success rate for dual logistics teams (3 wins out of 7 times fielded)
37.5% success rate for teams fielding logistics. (3 wins out of 8 times fielded)
*The drawn match was not factored into the statistics.
Matches 25-32
25: 3 Logistics û BS/2 Onieros/Support Vs BS/HAC/Guardian/Support û Dual logistics team wins.
26: 2 Logistics û HAC/2 Basilisks/Support Vs HAC/Support û Logistics team loses.
27: 2 Logistics û 2 Basilisks/Cruiser/Support Vs BS/Recon/Support û Logistics team wins.
28: 4 Logistics û BS/2 Guardians/Cruisers Vs BC/2 Guardians/Recon/Cruisers û Triple-thorax team fielded by Ev0ke jams opposition logistics with ECM drones and wins.
29: 1 Logistics û BS/Recon Vs BS/BC/HAC/Gurdian û Logistics team wins.
30: 2 Logistics û BC/2 Basilisks/Cruisers/Support Vs Cruisers/Support û Logistics team wins.
31: No logistics û BC/Cruisers Vs Cruisers.
32: 2 Logistics û BS/2 Guardians/Support Vs Cruisers û Logistics team wins.
2 x Single logistic team. (12.5%)
7 x Dual logistics teams. (43.75%)
7 x No logistics teams. (43.75%)
50% success rate for single logistic teams. (1 win out of 2 times fielded)
85% success rate for dual logistics teams (6 wins out of 7 times fielded)
63% Success rate for teams fielding logistics. (7 wins out of 9 times fielded)
Overall Statistics
10 out of 64 teams (15.625%) of teams have fielded one logistics ship for a 20% success rate (2 wins out of 10 times fielded).
20 out of 64 teams (31.25%) have fielded a dual-logistics vessel setup for a 75% success rate (15 wins out of 20 times fielded).
30 out of 64 teams (46.875%) have fielded at least one logistics vessel for an overall success rate of 56.67% (17 wins out of 30 times fielded)
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steveid
SkyMarshal Logistics
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:19:00 -
[3]
first and thankyou for putting it into official perspective
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DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:30:00 -
[4]
Edited by: DHB WildCat on 02/03/2008 14:31:20
this is enjoyable I like the squirming 8). So you are taking the number of overall matches and putting percentages of logistic usage, and winning. Thats very cool I like the numbers and I thank you for that.
Let me ask these questions to our fearless organizers who number 1 complaint is how long they're afraid matches will go.
1. I want to know the time length of matches when logistic ships are used vs not using them.
2. I want to know the number of total hell deaths in logistics vs non.
3. I want to poll the audience to see if you would rather watch a duel repping logistic team battle a non logistic team..... or if you would rather watch rigged out battleships duke it out since the arena is too small to allow any other tactics than remote rep, or ecm. 8)
I vote slugfest between rigged out nuetron throns, and pulse geddons. Of course I would rather see a larger arena where viable sniping and speed tactics may be used.
Anyways continue on with the tournament 8). Im sure I am the only person with these views so I must idiotic enough that an ISD member felt it necessary to try to argue. Or maybe Im just that big of a threat because the players might just know what the players want to see! Then again I am who I am so hate away.
Oh and to the guy whos sole job is to edit my posts and remove the color. I hope you enjoy it because I just re-edit it 8). Unlike other people I dont do a half assed job when I start something.
WildCat
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ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:36:00 -
[5]
I'm not arguing anything DHB, just providing stats for your discussion which I found quite interesting. You guys can draw your own conclusions, it's not my job to do that and I'd likely get spanked for doing so! 
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Narciss Sevar
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:51:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
I'm not arguing anything DHB, just providing stats for your discussion which I found quite interesting. You guys can draw your own conclusions, it's not my job to do that and I'd likely get spanked for doing so!
If that is your reasoning please give all information so we can decide for ourselves. Otherwise it's just a bunch of stats that show half the story.
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GAJY
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Posted - 2008.03.02 14:52:00 -
[7]
I'd like to see the cost of logistics go up, in game they are much more balanced but in the tournament they are just boring and annoying due to restrictions on what you can use and the size of the arena.
+ Everyone report my name so I can change it thanx.
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Zenst
Gallente
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
I'm not arguing anything DHB, just providing stats for your discussion which I found quite interesting. You guys can draw your own conclusions, it's not my job to do that and I'd likely get spanked for doing so!
Firstly thank you for taking the time to put this all together.
Well from what I can see a limit of 1 logistics ship would appear to be the order of the day going on here. But could apply that logic to pirate sets (1 person in a team can have a set), or rigs (same logic).
But what does stand out overall is what is required is some form of weighting system. Akin to boxing based upon character age say (could have collective age in months per team). Or as with boxing or indeed football or probably hockey and other sports of a competition bias is ranked leagues.
Maybe next year we have 3 tournements were you can only enter 1 and are ranked for example you could have a group for characters under 2 years of age only allowed, one open as is now and another were its completely open and allows pirate, officer uber faction - any modules/rigs/items worth alot and you risk allowed. Of course would have to scale a bit for time (or run over a month) with say 5 per team.
But back to the main stats here and they do show that a limit of one logistics ship per class would be the calling of the day, though that said - both teams have the option and there are counters. But hey I'd like to see a 3 way battle, would make it more realistic to those who pvp alot :). Also allow poddings and make em stick, that alone would make the risk/return and viewability alot more exiting.
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ISD Deckard Bishop
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Narciss Sevar
Originally by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
I'm not arguing anything DHB, just providing stats for your discussion which I found quite interesting. You guys can draw your own conclusions, it's not my job to do that and I'd likely get spanked for doing so!
If that is your reasoning please give all information so we can decide for ourselves. Otherwise it's just a bunch of stats that show half the story.
The figures above were worked out from the match data in the match review articles. Its not something we have been given by CCP/Devs.
We have no extra or special access to match stats at. If we do manage to get any from the tournament officials will will share it.
Deckard Bishop
Captain
Interstellar Correspondents
Submit News Lead - Email Us |
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Arachidamia
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: GAJY
I'd like to see the cost of logistics go up, in game they are much more balanced but in the tournament they are just boring and annoying due to restrictions on what you can use and the size of the arena.
Would be nice if the cost of a second/third logistic ship would go up, to take into account just how staggering powerful the logistics can be when there are two or more spider tanking.
And yes, dual logistic setups are mind numbingly boring to watch.
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:46:00 -
[11]
Maybe I'm sad and don't have anything better to do but I don't mind a tense 20 minute match with logistics wearing each other down, probing for weaknesses. It certainly beats 20 cruisers suiciding into each other and all exploding within 2 minutes.
That said logistics ARE overpowered, in game and in the tourney. They got a massive boost cos very few people used them. But the reason they weren't used before (except in tournies) was not because they were underpowered but because they're a bit boring to fly.
The trouble is the bonus just gets far too powerful by level 5 because it's a negative bonus:
"Logistics Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array and Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level"
A decent fix might be:
"+15% bonus to Energy Transfer and Remote Armor amount per level"
Making them very powerful in the short term still but not nearly so sustainable.
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:49:00 -
[12]
I honestly dont think there is a problem with 2 heal + dps setups...
If anything DPS ships are to costly point wise and/or no-one has fielded a decent alpha striking or gank/ewar setup to counter the logi circlejerking.
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GAJY
Caldari
RONA Corporation
RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:49:00 -
[13]
*YAWN*
Another dual Logistics match....
You know I have a wife to bore me at home.
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MAXSuicide
Cosmic Fusion
When Fat Kids Attack
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:50:00 -
[14]
generating cap from nowhere surely is a bit dodgey?
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.02 15:55:00 -
[15]
Let me put it another way:
How many of the people claiming these kind of matches are boring are soccer fans?
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2008.03.02 16:10:00 -
[16]
Oh look a decent alpha strike setup just raeped a double logi setup.
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Adamus TorK
Amarr
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.02 16:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
...just providing stats for your discussion which I found quite interesting....
I think I saw a mach yesterday when a dual logistic team lost against a non-logistic setup. Also saw a few minute ago a very nice setup killed a dual logistic team.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but anytime my Race was nerfed, people said "adapt or die".
Not the ships making boring the matches, but the tactics behind the scenes. Those who fielding their setup should know their weakness and how would they defeat their own setup if their opponent would field that.
There are many way to kill a dual logistics setup, don't blame the ship if many dont know how to. :P
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.03.02 16:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Bacchanalian on 02/03/2008 16:38:39
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Edited by: DHB WildCat on 02/03/2008 14:31:20
1. I want to know the time length of matches when logistic ships are used vs not using them.
2. I want to know the number of total hell deaths in logistics vs non.
Use the recorded matches and look it up then!
http://www.eve-online.com/evetv/tunein.asp
____________________
GM Sunshine > oops
Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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ISD Tsuki Kiyuu
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
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Posted - 2008.03.02 17:40:00 -
[19]
What Bacchanalian said.
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2008.03.02 17:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DHB WildCat
Edited by: DHB WildCat on 02/03/2008 14:31:20
this is enjoyable I like the squirming 8). So you are taking the number of overall matches and putting percentages of logistic usage, and winning. Thats very cool I like the numbers and I thank you for that.
Let me ask these questions to our fearless organizers who number 1 complaint is how long they're afraid matches will go.
1. I want to know the time length of matches when logistic ships are used vs not using them.
2. I want to know the number of total hell deaths in logistics vs non.
3. I want to poll the audience to see if you would rather watch a duel repping logistic team battle a non logistic team..... or if you would rather watch rigged out battleships duke it out since the arena is too small to allow any other tactics than remote rep, or ecm. 8)
I vote slugfest between rigged out nuetron throns, and pulse geddons. Of course I would rather see a larger arena where viable sniping and speed tactics may be used.
Anyways continue on with the tournament 8). Im sure I am the only person with these views so I must idiotic enough that an ISD member felt it necessary to try to argue. Or maybe Im just that big of a threat because the players might just know what the players want to see! Then again I am who I am so hate away.
Oh and to the guy whos sole job is to edit my posts and remove the color. I hope you enjoy it because I just re-edit it 8). Unlike other people I dont do a half assed job when I start something.
WildCat
I thought you had done all this work before making these posts about exactly what everyone thought about the tournament and exactly what setups everyone was using.
I am disappointed to discover your just talking out the top of your hat afterall.
Still I like the stats, much more useful than whine and blah blah.
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Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
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kessah
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.02 18:00:00 -
[21]
Fantastic review Tsuki.
I would like to add Blood Blind & Fat kids are willing to put on a show would really love to know what you and Miss Brown think you would like to see!
Linkage
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ISD Clarity Brown
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Posted - 2008.03.02 19:15:00 -
[22]
Mmm, what an interesting idea, kessah! What would I like to see? Hmm...
It's got to be a three v three inty fight round a structure, so speed, mutual boosting or ewar and use of environment can come into play (and it's pretty).
Or what about nanoship spaceball? Two teams of nanoships try to ram an Osprey through goals...
Just out of curiosity, what do people posit as the ideal length of a tournament match? And which is better - a total hell-death, or a scrap that boils down to a one-vs-one at the end? Or does it all depend on the tension of the fight in action?
I am not just asking questions so Tsuki doesn't ask me to draw a chart... honest...
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Malar
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.03.02 21:56:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Malar on 02/03/2008 21:59:41
Edited by: Malar on 02/03/2008 21:58:34
Originally by: ISD Clarity Brown
Mmm, what an interesting idea, kessah! What would I like to see? Hmm...
Just out of curiosity, what do people posit as the ideal length of a tournament match? And which is better - a total hell-death, or a scrap that boils down to a one-vs-one at the end? Or does it all depend on the tension of the fight in action?
As someone participating, the best match i love to see is one where two teams sit there for 15 minutes unable to break eachother's tank :P
0-0 for both is like if they would both have a loss for them.
Then again, apart from that unlikely match earlier, i doubt we will see it again.
From the viewers perspective, the ideal length of a match is around 8 minutes in my eyes. Faster than that, then you have too much studio talk. Slower than that, then its usually just people trying to somehow deal enough damage.
The only time it is really boring, when it is obvious that the two sides are unable to deal with eachother. Say a couple of short range gun fitted ships against a couple of remaining ceptors orbiting them at a distance.
Then they could just as well call the match and be done with it.
Apart from that, its all game.. and wonders / great tacitcal decisions can always happen that people might then very well talk about for days.
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*Comments in this post are mine and mine only* |
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