| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
evildrome
   |
Posted - 2008.03.03 00:55:00 -
[1]
I don't know if anyone has already brought this up but here goes:
I've been watching the tournament and have been enjoying it but... it seems to be a test of ones luck rather than ones skill. A bit like rock/paper/scisors. If you turn up on the day with the wrong set of ships as compared to the other teams ships you are toast. This is evidenced by the number of hell deaths.
If you want to test skill, send teams out in identical groups of ships, chosen at random from a large set of possible ship combinations. Each team wouldn't know what ships they'd be in till they warp into their beacon in pods. Then they have say, 2 minutes to decide who's flying what and discuss tactics. That'd keep them on their toes.
Ideally I'd like to see that format run in parallel with the current format so that'd test both tactical choice & piloting skills.
Just a thought.
Cheers,
evildrome.
|
evildrome
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 00:55:00 -
[2]
I don't know if anyone has already brought this up but here goes:
I've been watching the tournament and have been enjoying it but... it seems to be a test of ones luck rather than ones skill. A bit like rock/paper/scisors. If you turn up on the day with the wrong set of ships as compared to the other teams ships you are toast. This is evidenced by the number of hell deaths.
If you want to test skill, send teams out in identical groups of ships, chosen at random from a large set of possible ship combinations. Each team wouldn't know what ships they'd be in till they warp into their beacon in pods. Then they have say, 2 minutes to decide who's flying what and discuss tactics. That'd keep them on their toes.
Ideally I'd like to see that format run in parallel with the current format so that'd test both tactical choice & piloting skills.
Just a thought.
Cheers,
evildrome.
|
Zarlak
Caldari
Quam Singulari
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:35:00 -
[3]
correct me if im wrong, but it looks like your suggesting that ccp mail the teams and say
right team a, you can fly either 3 sb 2 logistics and a bs for example (if its not plausible dont spam me i cant be bothered adding the points up for a quick forum post) or you can have 3 bs and 3 ew frigs and a hac, or you can have 10 t1 cruisers, and the same to team b with 3 different setups,
if this is right, then whatever setups the teams pick its still going to be rock paper scissors, unless both teams fly the exact same ships with exact same setups, its always going to be rock/paper/scissors rather than pure skill
--------------------------
Smoke me a kipper, ill be back for breakfast |
Shandelzare
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:41:00 -
[4]
No, what he is suggesting, is that ccp spawn ships at random to a bookmark in space and then would have the team warp in to the bookmark in their pods and board those ships, so they would get completely random ships and fittings that they would only see few minutes before the start of the match.
Really bad idea if you ask me.
|
trixterr
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:43:00 -
[5]
since this is suppose to mirror real pvp *cough*lol*cough* when your roaming around in a 10 man gang you don't run into another group and say hey can you guys come in this and we'll grab this?
of course you have the option to run home and get bigger and better ships, but when you get in a fight you can't back down from say you get caught on a gate or something then your going to fight no matter what they're flying just like the tourney.
|
Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises
Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:46:00 -
[6]
Do you go with a gimmick setup, 10 T1 cruisers fit to gank for example, or 2 logistic/#stealth bomber setups that will do very well against some teams and fail horribly against others? Or, do you go with something a little more balanced, 2 BS, 1/2 Logistics and various other support? The balanced team will be able to work more tactics and try different things before they're down and out, whereas 10 T1 cruisers they basically have one tactic and one tactic only (and if it doesn't work they've lost).
No matter what you bring, there will always be *something* that can beat you (See BoB's "Unbeatable" setup) but unless you just meet your perfect counter a lot of matches can really go either way (Look at all the matches that go back and forth, or basically get called right away and the match goes the complete opposite direction).
|
Spleenmash theDestroyer
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:46:00 -
[7]
Yes, I am suggesting that both teams fly the exact same ships with exact same setups. Thats what I meant by "identical groups of ships". I meant that each team gets the same 'set' of ships. Sorry, I could have been clearer about that.
Basically they get the same ships and very little time to decide what to do with them.
Cheers,
evildrome.
|
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 01:53:00 -
[8]
Riiiiight.
One question - have you heard of this thing int he game called "Skills".
How on earth would you guarantee that both teams could fly all the ships in the given combo if they're just doled out and you warp to them and pick them up? I mean, what are the odds that you can fly the exact combo and use all the items, let alone be specced in them.
One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Spleenmash theDestroyer
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:13:00 -
[9]
OK, I would put the competing pilots current skills into 'a computer' (you may have heard of these) and it would pick a set of ships that both teams could fly. It might even try and pick a set of ships that would minimize the advantage one team would have over the other given that they don't posses equal skills.
Or... it might look at the skills of both teams and er.. adjust them. So maybe one guy gets +1lvl on his Targeting and -2lvls on MWD skills (just for the match of course).
But this is just the fine detail. All that can be worked out later. I'm just trying to get away from a test of luck to a test of leadership, teamwork and piloting.
Cheers,
evildrome
|
Zhecao Vai
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:19:00 -
[10]
So now strategizing, ship selection, and fitting are suddenly not important or interesting parts of PvP? Maybe you should play a different game if all you want is premade setups exercising twitch judgment. I hear TF2 is fun.
|
|
|
Jonathan Priest
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:37:00 -
[11]
Personally I think teams should be able to look at their opponents before the match and be allowed to switch out X number of points worth of ships from there setup. |
Valkazm
Amarr
Knights of Tiberius
Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:50:00 -
[12]
I think the op is failing to see all the things we dont get to see dampning , jamming , neutron , handling cap, staying in range.
There is a bunch of stuff we dont get to see that i bet the pilots are in there sweating over all we see is shooting back and forth someone taking damage . Rep shields are back up shooting . Thats bassicly what were seeing .
.......................................
Signature
Breaking Eve news
|
Wolf Parade
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 03:03:00 -
[13]
Totally agree, it's funny that the commentary people act like it is based is skill (Timing and odds but not skill)
|
Ky Mena
Gallente
Mouse Click
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 04:00:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Valkazm
I think the op is failing to see all the things we dont get to see dampning , jamming , neutron , handling cap, staying in range.
There is a bunch of stuff we dont get to see that i bet the pilots are in there sweating over all we see is shooting back and forth someone taking damage . Rep shields are back up shooting . Thats bassicly what were seeing .
couldnt have said it better, just because we cannot see what is going on doesnt mean there is nothing going on.(CCP need to work on those effects btw)
it is far from rock paper scissor. however, there is atleast one counter to whatever setup you bring, the time given to you prior to the matches are used to make these choices and try to field one or more setups that have the least weak points to it.
and i can see how it can be boring seeing two logistic repping each other forever, but this is also when skill of pilots on each side and FC comes into play, target switching, jamming, or use a smartbomb and chase them out of the arena are all tacitics and considered part of your "skill"
I sell, I buy, I survive |
Gutsani
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 07:20:00 -
[15]
I ate the rock
Sig Locked. Moderator abuse.
|
G Mooo
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 08:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gutsani
I ate the rock
I ate the paper
|
Entreri Finwe
Raptus Regaliter
Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 10:29:00 -
[17]
I ran away with the scissors
Originally by: jarack
I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands 
|
IgnisFatuus
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 10:51:00 -
[18]
dont run with scissors!
|
voidvim
Minmatar
Genco
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 13:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: voidvim on 03/03/2008 13:25:17
and if I was willing to sell you a pair of scissors made out of rock ?
Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
Adonis 4174
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 13:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: voidvim
and if I was willing to sell you a pair of scissors made out of rock ?
omgh4x!
----
Anything less is wasted effort |
|
|
xStealthx
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 15:25:00 -
[21]
This isnt WoW where you can say, each team gets to have 3 lvl 70's. you cant take away all their epic armor and give them all lvl 1 items and tell them to duke it out.
we in eve arent bound by level caps (character caps, 70 in the case of WoW), A persons SP defines them and what they are good at, not the ship they currently fly. Thats like saying, this tourny is only for ppl with SP between 15-20mil SP...
imo, the tourny as great as is 
-XS
|
Uncle Mo
|
Posted - 2008.03.03 17:59:00 -
[22]
I think there should be a couple rounds where ships types are exactaly the same on both sides. We would then see a competition of ship fitting, teamwork and field commanding and eliminate the 'Rock-Paper-Scissors' effect.
|
Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Knights Of Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 07:42:00 -
[23]
Well, one solution is to make it more like Card game tournaments.
You have a main setup worth say 100 pts. And you have a sideboard of ships that you can swap in and out, let's say 30 points.
Everyone has to post their setup so everyone knows what everyone is playing mainboard and sideboard.
So the teams have to come up with resilent setups, and can potentially guess/forsee what the opponent will do, and sideboard their setup before they field it.
---- sig ----
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. |
Vestia
Dirty Girls Holding
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 08:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: trixterr
since this is suppose to mirror real pvp *cough*lol*cough* when your roaming around in a 10 man gang you don't run into another group and say hey can you guys come in this and we'll grab this?
of course you have the option to run home and get bigger and better ships, but when you get in a fight you can't back down from say you get caught on a gate or something then your going to fight no matter what they're flying just like the tourney.
You mean your corp chat doesnt look like this?
FC - "X for gang"
FC - "Remember we only have 100 points"
FC - "We have any Griffin pilots?"
FC - "Guys?"
Isn't that how people get all these fair fights we see posted all over the forums?
|
Ryu Kibegami
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 09:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vestia
Originally by: trixterr
since this is suppose to mirror real pvp *cough*lol*cough* when your roaming around in a 10 man gang you don't run into another group and say hey can you guys come in this and we'll grab this?
of course you have the option to run home and get bigger and better ships, but when you get in a fight you can't back down from say you get caught on a gate or something then your going to fight no matter what they're flying just like the tourney.
You mean your corp chat doesnt look like this?
FC - "X for gang"
FC - "Remember we only have 100 points"
FC - "We have any Griffin pilots?"
FC - "Guys?"
Isn't that how people get all these fair fights we see posted all over the forums?
Sorry, "go fish"
|
gusta
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 11:34:00 -
[26]
Eve itself is always a rock/paper/scisors contest tbh. no one will just say "right this is what we are bringing," becuase then each sides will fit their ships to counter the exact set up. Somtimes you have the have the bad luck of the draw up against you. But that is where your skills come out if you ask me, going up agaisnt a set up that could potentialy beat yours and come out on top of it. Take our fight with Phalanx, they had 2 falcons and a bb. The blackbird had amarr racial ecm fitted and pretty much had our guardians perma jammed. From the start of that fight. So we sent our only form of defence after the ewar, becuase our bs were in at 0 and we had to make the call not to go after the ewar, or let Phalax get those hyperions on our guardians. through alot of overloading of anti ewar modules we managed to break the jam cycles and get reps in here and there.
|
Blaise Farmoon
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 14:19:00 -
[27]
Computer-generated teams?! Ludicrous. Now you take even team building out of the player's hands. Oh and what if I draw the all-gallente fleet and I can't fly gallente?
Keep the current format. There will be R-P-S and that's a good thing. Every now and then you'll see rock v. rock and you'll have a more strategic match. But at least the actual fleet make up is up to the players.
Rule changes are imperative to keep fleets fresh. The card games have an influx of new cards and rules each tourney to prevent all players from just playing the same deck. Change the ships around or adjust the point totals to mix it up a bit.
I also like the "sideboard" idea of having a a ship or two on the side to quickly swap out during the 60 second pre-battle. Getting it there would be wonky I think though.
__________________________________________________
The meek shall NOT inherent the earth, they will be beaten and their toys taken from them. - Blaise Farmoon |
Trigos Trilobi
X-Fire
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 17:23:00 -
[28]
I think both the identical ships and the random ship approach are fatally flawed, big part of the so called 'skill' lies in how you fit your ship and what's the composition on your fleet and in that sense the current system imo better reflects the nature of the game on tranq. Fights can and often will be decided the moment you leave the station etc.
One interesting twist though would be sort of texas holdem style, where teams would have to announce some point value worth of their ships in advance and then decide what they're going to bring with the rest of their points based on what's on the table. There'd be more tactical options available at multiple stages: at first to decide what ships you're going to announce yourself, then trying to deduct what the opponent intends to do with his ships and how your opponent is going to react to yours and how that all plays out when you choose the rest of your ships.
|
leich
Amarr
dust to dust
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 18:35:00 -
[29]
I think The Biggest Issue for Making the tournetment more exciting is the Dual logistics setups that just slow the matches right down. up the cost of these ships. making it harder to field.
also one setup per tournemnt so they would have to field the same setup for the entire thing or mabey one for the group stages and another for the knockout stages. Althought mabey alowing them to change one ship per match.
the only other idea i had was to rather than making it harder to field dual logistic setups make it easer for them to field more Firepower. which would increase the amount of firepower every one can take and might speed the matches up abit.
I surgest more points while increasing the amount of points for logistic setups.
|
Spleenmash theDestroyer
|
Posted - 2008.03.04 18:42:00 -
[30]
Please read my original post.
My suggestion is an additional format, not a replacement for the current format.
The current format does reflect actual PvP in that largely you don't know who you'll meet out there or what they will be flying. Which brings me idley to the thought that the chances of 10 ships meeting 10 other ships in real life is approximately zero.
So if you're moaning that my format doesn't reflect real PvP, have a good look at the current format.
Whilst the current format does test some aspects of PvP it does not (in a fair manner) test them all. I am merely suggesting another test to run along side the current one. A test that I hope would prove as entertaining as the original one.
Cheers,
evildrome.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |