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Voltaire Leriel
Minmatar
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.03 05:56:00 -
[1]
We've heard the opinions of the commentators that the best matches are the oens that are back and forth, close matches with many ships dying on either side.
I must agree.
So why was it decided to give 50 bonus points to the most lop-sided matches? Why not give bonuses to teams that go to the brink and win anyway?
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BIG Corporation Website |
Setanta NaFianna
FinFleet
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Posted - 2008.03.03 06:29:00 -
[2]
Because that sounds alot like rewarding people for almost winning and thats not what this tourney is about. Also, how do you define a good match? Simply one where its hard to tell who will win? You really need a more balanced and stable scoring system than that.
The THD bonus is to encourage ganking and less turtle setups.
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Gutsani
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2008.03.03 07:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Gutsani on 03/03/2008 07:17:32
 Originally by: Setanta NaFianna
The THD bonus is to DIScourage ganking and MOAR turtle setups.
fixed
Sig Locked. Moderator abuse.
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IgnisFatuus
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.03 10:04:00 -
[4]
Maybe put in a bonus for wins within a certain time? That would surely encourage ganking, especially if ships lost within x minutes didn't hurt the quick-win bonus.
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Shrouded Nameless
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Posted - 2008.03.03 10:24:00 -
[5]
Allows for embellishment or ungentlemanly conduct I thought that would be obvious.
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IgnisFatuus
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.03 10:43:00 -
[6]
so does the current method 
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.03 11:11:00 -
[7]
the THD rule is frankly horrible and makes the tourney worse
but too late to change it so whatever
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Calmdown
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.03.03 12:53:00 -
[8]
Because as we discussed, although a match may be boring, it also makes for a good technical fight.
Teams are right to field tough setups and go for max points.
As we keep seeing, there are many ways to beat dual logistics, and dual logistics often goes home with no points. There are plenty of downsides to it.
The simple fact is a lot of teams dont have the forethought or the ability to build a setup that can both tank and gank, and those that do will win the tournament.
See: Notoriety, Green.
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Suitonia
Gallente
interimo
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Posted - 2008.03.03 13:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: IgnisFatuus
Maybe put in a bonus for wins within a certain time? That would surely encourage ganking, especially if ships lost within x minutes didn't hurt the quick-win bonus.
This.
A time bonus, i.e. kill all enemy ships within the first 3 minutes (or whatever just using 3 as an example) nets you the THD bonus. Would encourage people to fit more gank and finish fights quickly rather than dual logistics and slowly wear down the enemy team.
Not that theres anything thing wrong with fielding dual logistics, it's just a bit painful to watch.
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I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots... |
Setanta NaFianna
FinFleet
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Posted - 2008.03.03 13:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gutsani
Edited by: Gutsani on 03/03/2008 07:17:32
Originally by: Setanta NaFianna
The THD bonus is to DIScourage ganking and MOAR turtle setups.
fixed
Fair one, I'd forgotten about the no losses thing. So yea I stand corrected. THD in current form = fail.
That being fail to deliver ganktastic matches. We all want to see them, but is it not more likely that one side will totally dominate the other due to the rock scissor paper nature of the game?
IMO the second tourney was the best, but only the finest teams produced the best matches I think, considering there are some...lesser known faces in this years tournament, the current setup balances the whole thing.
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Voltaire Leriel
Minmatar
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.04 02:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 04/03/2008 02:43:54
Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 04/03/2008 02:40:51
I think the solution might be a slightly more complex point system.
How about this:
The team that wins gets the points for killing enemy ships and as an added bonus gets 1/2 the point cost of all thier own lost ships.
Another way would be to have an initial "pot" that increases as each ship is destroyed on either side, and the winner is awarded the entire pot. The base pot would be enough to secure some decent points and the "carnage bonus" would only be enough to suppliment. That way it would still count for a good bit if you steamroll your opponent.
The only drawback to somthing like this is to have a team that deliberately looses ships for the extra points or allow the enemy to kill ships near the end of a match in order to get more. Ofc, these tactics could severely backfire and actualyl allow the enemy team to win.
TBH - the best solution is to just get rid of the THD rule entirely.
And I don't think that many teams will gear thier entire setup just to try and get the THD bonus. Any team that does that will probably miss out on some fundamentals and end up loosing everything.
My point still stands - THD rewards the most boring and lop-sided matches whe nit's the close, well-fought matches that deserve extra points.
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BIG Corporation Website |
Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Rialtor on 04/03/2008 05:19:27
Personally I don't like the THD system. Points should be based on some function of Points Remaining, and Time of Match + Kills. It's pretty standard for games, ala streetfighter.
---- sig ----
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. |
Damarkin
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:21:00 -
[13]
I'd like them to get rid of points completely, and base it off of WINS and LOSSES. If the two top teams end up with the same w/l ratio after the group matches, they fight each other to see who progresses.
Its really stupid that a team can win all 4 preliminary matches and still be beaten by a team that only wins 3, but scores more points (see quote at bottom). Screw points, the team with the best record should move on, after all, if ONE of your ships survives and the other teams ships all die, your TEAM still wins. That team should get rewarded for it. That is what the tourney is about no? The best team? So only 1 team would advance to eliminations if done this way instead of 2. Who cares, it would be the team with the best record from each bracket.
And THD is ********. Bonus points of any sort are ********. And no i'm not just saying that because atm Tri is ahead of us with thier THD points. If they beat us Kudos to them, they deserve to go, and i'll be the first to admit it. I just think the team that actually wins the most matches should be the one to move on, no matter who it might be. Win or go home!
The rules for winning would be really simple. The team who survives wins. Would get rid of this rediculous crap..
"In the elimination rounds, fights will be stopped after 20 minutes if both teams still have ships on the battlefield. The winners will be declared based on the following:
8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins.
8.2. If both teams have destroyed equal amounts total point worth, the team which advanced from the brackets with a higher total score will advance."
And get rid of dual logistics. Sure remote tactics and stuff are all well and good, and they are effective, but they are anything but fun to watch. You know it's lame and a snorefest when they pan back to the studio DURING a match. When the commentators lame ass jokes are the high point of a match, somethings wrong. Well not all thier jokes are lame, but...anyways.
To sum it up, winners go on, bonus points suck, Turtles are only good for soup and speedbumps.
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Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rialtor on 04/03/2008 05:30:55
Originally by: Damarkin
I'd like them to get rid of points completely, and base it off of WINS and LOSSES. If the two top teams end up with the same w/l ratio after the group matches, they fight each other to see who progresses.
Its really stupid that a team can win all 4 preliminary matches and still be beaten by a team that only wins 3, but scores more points (see quote at bottom). Screw points, the team with the best record should move on, after all, if ONE of your ships survives and the other teams ships all die, your TEAM still wins. That team should get rewarded for it. That is what the tourney is about no? The best team? So only 1 team would advance to eliminations if done this way instead of 2. Who cares, it would be the team with the best record from each bracket.
And THD is ********. Bonus points of any sort are ********. And no i'm not just saying that because atm Tri is ahead of us with thier THD points. If they beat us Kudos to them, they deserve to go, and i'll be the first to admit it. I just think the team that actually wins the most matches should be the one to move on, no matter who it might be. Win or go home!
The rules for winning would be really simple. The team who survives wins. Would get rid of this rediculous crap..
"In the elimination rounds, fights will be stopped after 20 minutes if both teams still have ships on the battlefield. The winners will be declared based on the following:
8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins.
8.2. If both teams have destroyed equal amounts total point worth, the team which advanced from the brackets with a higher total score will advance."
And get rid of dual logistics. Sure remote tactics and stuff are all well and good, and they are effective, but they are anything but fun to watch. You know it's lame and a snorefest when they pan back to the studio DURING a match. When the commentators lame ass jokes are the high point of a match, somethings wrong. Well not all thier jokes are lame, but...anyways.
To sum it up, winners go on, bonus points suck, Turtles are only good for soup and speedbumps.
The issue with just straight wins and losses is that it may promote turtling again. Try to kill the weak target and try not to lose any of your own. So try to get past on frig kills with interceptors and run away, things like that. Just some things that can arise, I think we'd see more stalemated matches and not less.
But I would prefer straight wins and losses to the system now.
I have no real issue with dual logistics, but dual logistics with 2 BSes, AND 2 frigs is a bit much for the field imo.
---- sig ----
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. |
Damarkin
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.04 05:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rialtor
Edited by: Rialtor on 04/03/2008 05:30:55
The issue with just straight wins and losses is that it may promote turtling again. Try to kill the weak target and try not to lose any of your own. So try to get past on frig kills with interceptors and run away, things like that. Just some things that can arise, I think we'd see more stalemated matches and not less.
But I would prefer straight wins and losses to the system now.
I have no real issue with dual logistics, but dual logistics with 2 BSes, AND 2 frigs is a bit much for the field imo.
That would be an issue, unless teams were required to clear the field, which i think they should be. People would be forced to use teams with higher DPS.
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