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Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.05 09:44:00 - [1] I'll preface this by saying that I have no ability to make Hulks, and neither the time or inclination to buy/sell them for any numbers. No one will believe it, but just saying. I've been trying to make out whether Hulk sales and prices are being affected by having all of those ships destroyed so quickly, but I just can't make sense of the charts on market details. For basic info, I can do alright, but the reason I never got much into things to make money is because I can't read market charts without my brain sliding over the numbers and telling me to buy high and sell low, or something equally wrong. Market dyslexia, some sort of missing piece of info, or simple stupidity: I have no idea. But I know people here can figure it out, and already have. If people are not comfortable actively discussing it here, firing me a mail ingame is cool. I just want to know, and for the life of me can't quite grasp the picture here. "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Alha Qmar Caldari Xenon Logistics	Posted - 2008.03.05 09:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Alha Qmar on 05/03/2008 09:51:00 You wont see any affect on the market at all, across empire a number of 15-20 hulks are sold everyday per region. Multiply with 15 empire regions is 300 hulks sold everyday. The goons killed 300 hulks in 2 weeks, shared across 14 days is only an increase of sales volume of 21 per day. On a scale of 300 units sold per day is only an increase of 7% with is notable but not to see on the market graph. It might maybe lead to an adverse affect, people temporarely being afraid to buy any with the risk of being blown up and not buy em at all so sales might even drop.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.03.05 09:54:00 - [3] From what I see so far there really arent enough Hulks being destroyed to make a significant difference. Now if this was something they had started before Hulks were inventable, the story would have been very different. Now Something I would look at is maybe Mackinaw's, since I doubt as many people are geared to produce them, and the jihad seems to be killing them off in decent numbers too. --
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.03.05 09:59:00 - [4] Hulks like everything else T2 will have prices based on the following 1) The cost to produce (when I say produce, I mean T2 BPO Owners) 2) The cost to invent 3) Demand on the product Commonly producers will try to focus their sale price on those of the inventors due to less competition from other producers. There are exceptions to the rule with things such as crappy items/ships, or large amounts of producers (T2 mining laser, t2 ammo etc). Now, inventors generally know their build costs. However build costs can fluctuate rather wildly due to various factors: 1) Success Rates (an average should be employed but isn't always done so) 2) The moon mineral market (not dealt with by inventors but they see the slide-on effect) 3) The t2 component market (fluctuations here as a result of supply/demand, and most notably fluctuations in raw moon minerals supply/demand) 4) I would suggest the demand on an item would also have an effect on the market however it would be a temporary one adapted until the market adjusted (profits soar, more people invent, profits stabilise). The biggest drawback to T2 in my eyes is that it has become an almost infinite source. Prices cannot be fixed over sustainable periods, and many items sell below even a producer's (t2 bpo owner) build cost simply because inventors are stupid and value their products incorrectly. Now there is only one single thing in place that is currently able to cause these fluctuations, and that is raw moon minerals. Most are plentiful in supply however a small cache of them are finite in that their supply is limited. They are the only true items left in Eve with finite supply (that I can think of right now). Imagine Goonswarm done a huge alliance raid on every single Ferrogel moon in Eve. They focused their entire alliance efforts on this one item. They could effectively charge any price they wanted on this which in turn would cause mass inflation on many T2 item/ships. If anyone wanted to "win eve" in terms of financial domination this is the way to do it.
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.05 10:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Karanth I'll preface this by saying that I have no ability to make Hulks, and neither the time or inclination to buy/sell them for any numbers. No one will believe it, but just saying. I've been trying to make out whether Hulk sales and prices are being affected by having all of those ships destroyed so quickly, but I just can't make sense of the charts on market details. For basic info, I can do alright, but the reason I never got much into things to make money is because I can't read market charts without my brain sliding over the numbers and telling me to buy high and sell low, or something equally wrong. Market dyslexia, some sort of missing piece of info, or simple stupidity: I have no idea. But I know people here can figure it out, and already have. If people are not comfortable actively discussing it here, firing me a mail ingame is cool. I just want to know, and for the life of me can't quite grasp the picture here. Look at Jita Hulk market graph. There is 70-110 Hulks sold every day only in Jita and brave goonies kill like 150 per week in entire empire, that is ~21 per day. Even if half of that was replaced on Jita, it represents only 10-15% demand increase, which can be easily covered by increased production. There is slight growth in last few days in that graph, but it turns down again and only God knows if it was caused by the Jihad. They would have to kill a lot more of them to significantly affect markets.
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.05 10:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: Karanth Stuff Look at Jita Hulk market graph. There is 70-110 Hulks sold every day only in Jita and brave goonies kill like 150 per week in entire empire, that is ~21 per day. Even if half of that was replaced on Jita, it represents only 10-15% demand increase, which can be easily covered by increased production. There is slight growth in last few days in that graph, but it turns down again and only God knows if it was caused by the Jihad. They would have to kill a lot more of them to significantly affect markets. I dunno, I'd think a 10% or 15% increase would make a bigger difference. Seeing as how all sorts of things use Ferrogel to make, wouldn't any sort of increase in consumption show all over the place in T2 items? Or are the quantities involved such that it doesn't really matter in a meaningful way? "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.05 11:00:00 - [7] uhmm ric? what is a "ferrogel moon...?" :D - putting the gist back into logistics
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.03.05 11:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Roemy Schneider uhmm ric? what is a "ferrogel moon...?" :D leave ricdic's dreams alone....his impossible dreams.... --
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.03.05 11:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Roemy Schneider uhmm ric? what is a "ferrogel moon...?" :D You know what I mean, don't make me come over there
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Karanth I dunno, I'd think a 10% or 15% increase would make a bigger difference. Seeing as how all sorts of things use Ferrogel to make, wouldn't any sort of increase in consumption show all over the place in T2 items? Or are the quantities involved such that it doesn't really matter in a meaningful way? It would make bigger difference if supply was limited. With invention, you can increase your production very quiclky and easily. Component / Advanced material requirement for building these extra Hulks is very very tiny compared to volume of these markets, so they are not affected.
cosmoray	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:33:00 - [11] Surprised that when T2 Hulk BPO holders were the only game in town, they didn't try this then. With hulks selling for 500m, the cartels could have paid the large alliances 50-100m per destroyed hulk with guaranteed business. Probably pushing hulks upto 600-700m range.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.05 14:01:00 - [12] adds some more defence to those 10 involved POSes anyways, MD has made out raw (high-end) materials to be the new bottleneck back when invention hit. as it goes, it required trinity (a year leter) to speed up the process and finally mobilize the mob, aka to have them whine about prom/dysp. official reactions haven't come further than a "we're aware of the imbalance (but so far we kinda like it)" that'd be an excellent topic for the alleged economist. like... total amounts of moons (dysp, prom, neod, thul, etc), comparing them to the actual need (be that market demand or a shopping basket full of t2 blueprint material requirements) - and then draw game balancing conclusions for once! (moving high-end to null-sec only, reduction of mud, maybe even new reactions ) but yeah... nothing will change unless someone "pushes" an imbalanced game mechanic. be that wardec'ing the whole galaxy, POSbowling with (super)capitals, moms low-sec-camping, t2 BPOs, ... so i kinda agree - if this jihad is supposed to make a difference, just spamming dysp POSes into reinforced is already a cute idea: every hour means 800 less gel on the market ^^ - putting the gist back into logistics
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.05 15:09:00 - [13] All I can see is that demand has gone up. There are a couple of days recently when Mackinaw volume in The Forge was over 100 (first time in the history of the market). That's probably due to Goon activity. But I don't see any part of the market as being very inelastic. It's pretty easy to crank out more retriever and covetor BPCs. There's plentiful supply of datacores. Covetors are easy to produce and transport and plenty of moon materials to go around. I don't even see changes in the price of ices or basic minerals like trit. No having said that, I see that the reported kills by the Goons is increasing. They've killed around 90 in the last 2.5 days. Comapre that to 180 reported exhumer kills the week before. I also wonder how exhumer pilots are adapting. Surely any tricks will reduce mining output, be it through fittings less optimal for mining, more obscure locations, evasion tactics, or using covetors instead. If this campaign continues for a long period of time, we might see some change in low end mineral prices. At the least, the Goons are applying considerable pressure in favor of some sort of nerf for suicide ganking.
Altaree Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.05 15:52:00 - [14] flying through citadel. No influence yet.... Blue Sky
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.03.05 16:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Tasko Pal I also wonder how exhumer pilots are adapting. Surely any tricks will reduce mining output, be it through fittings less optimal for mining, more obscure locations, evasion tactics, or using covetors instead. There seems to be some movement into discontinuous hi-sec (systems where no hi-sec route to Jita exists). Of course, correlation does not imply causation, and my operation is extremely sensitive to such changes. I wouldn't expect that to impede the jihad. It may simply be a case of miners favoring slightly quieter corners of the galaxy. In the long run, those minerals will get to market , so I would not expect such movement to cause much change to prices. Cheers, Brisco Smiley This is pure ferrogel! Have you any idea what the street-value of this moon is?!?
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.05 16:36:00 - [16] How about the market for the ships that GS is using to suicide against the Hulks? I'm sure the market for these ships is far larger than those for the hulks, but it should have some impact. My train of thought: GS is targeting miners in Hulks. Hulks mine the most minerals of all the mining ships. Hulks and suiciding ships are destroyed, these ships need to be replaced. So there are less minerals to build new ships (hulks and suicide ships). Less supply and more demand should mean an increase in price for minerals. I also assume that GS and the victims insure their ships, thus more isk is available to purchase ships, and thus minerals. I have to wonder if the pace that GS is going through resources (both their own and their victims) is increased or decreased compared to open warfare with BoB. If not increased, then I don't really expect any thing to change, but if it is it should affect prices. It would also be interesting if other big alliances would join GS, that way resources wouldn't be expended between 0.0 alliances, but between 0.0 alliances and high sec inhabitants. That should increase consumption dramatically.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.05 17:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Cergorach GS is targeting miners in Hulks. Hulks mine the most minerals of all the mining ships. Hulks and suiciding ships are destroyed, these ships need to be replaced. So there are less minerals to build new ships (hulks and suicide ships). Less supply and more demand should mean an increase in price for minerals. This is what I was thinking as I read this thread. People are ignoring the massive supply bottleneck this may cause. Sure, if everyone knows GS is going around doing this randomly they would just get another hulk immediately and begin mining again. But a lot of miners don't keep up on 0.0 news. I personally had no idea GS was killing hulks. To an ordinary player they might think GS was targeting them... and be afraid to go out and mine for a few days. If they got popped twice they'd be even less likely to go back to mining right away. Now multiply this times hundreds of people and the supply of minerals starts to decline. Maybe not by a large amount, but even a 5% drop in mineral supply will definitely have an impact, the market is very well established and will react to changes like that over a week or two. Then factor in that a lot more minerals are being used up in all the suicide ships. Also factor in hulk pilots stripping out some of their mining gear for more defensive gear. Hulk Prices are unlikely to change much unless those more recent numbers are indeed kept up, if 30-40 per day are destroyed just by GS then prices will likely start to move upwards a little bit until supply catches up again. If this is kept up long enough it will start to have a very large impact, mostly by instilling fear in the common miner. They will start getting very mad their ships keep getting blown up and some may switch professions. The impact will be in minerals though, not in hulk prices or t2 component prices. If GS really wanted to have an impact though, like has been said, they'd roam lowsec with a large fleet and put every single POS they see into reinforced mode. That would seriously dent the market.
cosmoray	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:36:00 - [18] This topics brings up some interesting market effects. Even if the numbers of hulks being popped is small relative to the market there are other effects. My corp has seen several Corp mining ops (observations): 1. When in a mining op, a dedicated BS with remote armor repair on each hulk. Result: 1 less hulk in fleet = less ore/ice 2. Change ship set up vs. Alpha strike. change rigs and lows. Less ore/ice mined or speed cycle. 3. My corp has abandoned ice mining in favor of lvl 4 missions. There may be a few effects not yet seen on the market. 1. The price of ice products MAY rise for a short period, until it becomes too profitable to ignore 2. Volatility in ore markets 3. Increase sale of mission rewards as corp spends more time on this. e.g. implant price drops The above is not definately gonna happen but may play out in the next few weeks. With GS even doing this, causes industrial/mining/mission corps to re-evaluate how they make money.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:22:00 - [19] The 'problem' GS is facing is that there are many systems where Ores can be mined in high-sec, covering them all, is almost impossible. On the other hand, there are only ~120 systems in high-sec that have Ice in them, definitely possible to cover them all for a large alliance such as GS. Especially when combined with jump clones, the disruption of high-sec Ice mining could be a possibility. While Ice mining isn't essential in production of T1 items, it is necessary to fuel POSes and ships that can jump. If you want to keep your toys (POSes) alive, you better make sure that it's fueled, if you don't it has the potential to cost you 100s of millions of isk. Now imagine that GS has ten suiciding players in each system that contains Ice, imagine what would happen to the availability of ice in High-sec. Larger protection fleets could be sent to the Ice fields to protect the miners, but suddenly the price of Ice sky rockets and GS calls in an additional contingent of troops (through jump clones), the protection fleet wouldn't last very long (or the corp is wardeced by GS). What would happen if Ice prices sky rocket? BPO research, BPC production, and invention would grind to a halt in high-sec. Either the players shut their operations down due to the increased costs of running a POS (not being profitable anymore) or the POS gets blown up because it doesn't have enough fuel to protect itself. No BPO copies or invention, no Tech2 items on the market (through invention). The only production of Tech2 items would come from Tech2 BPO owners, prices would increase dramatically. No invention in High-sec, means no need for datacores, a lot of datacore farm accounts wouldn't be profitable anymore, so no need to buy GTC for isk. Prices of GTCs drop dramatically. Just a thought, but a scary one ;-)
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Ulstan on 05/03/2008 19:41:09 -Jihadswarm isn't killing enough of the hulks to drastically increase demand -What increase in demand is caused by pilots needing new hulks would probably be balanced out by a decrease in demand caused by people hearing of the notoriety of Jihadswarm and deciding that they don't want a hulk afterall, if it's just going to be suicide ganked. Personally, if I lost an expensive mining ship to a suicide ganking, I would not run out and purchase another one. Quote: Seeing as how all sorts of things use Ferrogel to make, wouldn't any sort of increase in consumption show all over the place in T2 items? I would think a small increase would be asborbsed simply by inventors shifting some of their production from a less profitable item to the new, now more profitable hulk. I don't think the demand for T2 items is that tight compared to the supply that there isn't enough wiggle room for such small adjustments.
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:03:00 - [21] I was surprised to see some of the directions that this might go, but now that I think about it, what does that leave? If things like mineral and ice markets are affected, and invention suffers for it, won't it go back to a smaller equilibrium? Also, is there an area that won't be affected by this? Aside from NPC trade goods, I can't see this leaving anything untouched if they pick it up. I read from a few Goons that people mining ice in Minmatar space wouldn't be shot at, or at least mining for Hydrogen Isotopes. I have been looking for a killboard link to see if that is the case, but I can't find one. Can someone confirm or deny that claim? "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Brisco Smiley Peppermint Bay Trading Company	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Karanth I read from a few Goons that people mining ice in Minmatar space wouldn't be shot at, or at least mining for Hydrogen Isotopes. Considering where they come from, I wouldn't bet a ship on it. This is not some sinister campaign to shape the galaxy as they see fit. It is a sinister campaign to unshape the galaxy as they see unfit. These are people driven tragically sane by the campaign of aggressive mediocrity we call civilization. They hate everything that is normal, mundane, accepted and safe. They have some sort of cultural need to make people fear the things they take for granted. The amorphous and inscrutable fury of an anonymous mob spares no one. GoonSwarm isn't really an organization, the way most people use the word. They're more of an ongoing riot with a web site. ianag. ymmv. ttfn. Cheers, Brisco Smiley
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.06 06:37:00 - [23] Edited by: Shadarle on 06/03/2008 06:39:47 Well, anyone who said in this thread this would have no impact on the market was clearly mistaken. The mineral market is exploding it seems. Supply is drying up very quickly. The overall supply in Jita is much smaller than the daily traded volume, which means it's going to evaporate and then prices jump. EDIT> As I was posting here pyer just vanished from the market. Fun times ahead! Not sure what else to attribute this to but GS's efforts. Perhaps it was due for a while... but it looks like they broke the levies open.
Yuck Fu	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Yuck Fu on 06/03/2008 12:32:00 Well as a Miner it would be silly for me not to just stockpile my mins till the full effect of the GS jihad is felt. Not that its haveing that much effect on the miners themselves. Just as much mining is takeing place in empire as ever im sure .. People just think there should be a shortage and a price jump. I for one are happy to give them that. Realy the Jihad is the best thing that could have happend for large scale miners. Im no market expert but im hopeing to make a tidy bit of extra profit in a week or 2. Edit\| Just thought id add that i agree that the Jihad will effect Ice miners and the Ice product market much more than the mineral market .. (I personaly think that was GS intent)... But i dont mine ice
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Cergorach The 'problem' GS is facing is that there are many systems where Ores can be mined in high-sec, covering them all, is almost impossible. On the other hand, there are only ~120 systems in high-sec that have Ice in them, definitely possible to cover them all for a large alliance such as GS. Especially when combined with jump clones, the disruption of high-sec Ice mining could be a possibility. While Ice mining isn't essential in production of T1 items, it is necessary to fuel POSes and ships that can jump. If you want to keep your toys (POSes) alive, you better make sure that it's fueled, if you don't it has the potential to cost you 100s of millions of isk. Now imagine that GS has ten suiciding players in each system that contains Ice, imagine what would happen to the availability of ice in High-sec. Larger protection fleets could be sent to the Ice fields to protect the miners, but suddenly the price of Ice sky rockets and GS calls in an additional contingent of troops (through jump clones), the protection fleet wouldn't last very long (or the corp is wardeced by GS). What would happen if Ice prices sky rocket? BPO research, BPC production, and invention would grind to a halt in high-sec. Either the players shut their operations down due to the increased costs of running a POS (not being profitable anymore) or the POS gets blown up because it doesn't have enough fuel to protect itself. No BPO copies or invention, no Tech2 items on the market (through invention). The only production of Tech2 items would come from Tech2 BPO owners, prices would increase dramatically. No invention in High-sec, means no need for datacores, a lot of datacore farm accounts wouldn't be profitable anymore, so no need to buy GTC for isk. Prices of GTCs drop dramatically. Just a thought, but a scary one ;-) Could this mean... that people would possibly consider mining ice in low-sec? Oh please let it be! If the goons accomplish this...
Night Crow	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:42:00 - [26] If they really went to affect the market they would go after freighters. What do you think would happen to the market if they did? Jita Meltdown Ice is heavy and the amount of trit you need for items so this would make a lot of prices go up I think this have more affect on the market than hulks
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Night Crow If they really went to affect the market they would go after freighters. What do you think would happen to the market if they did? Jita Meltdown Ice is heavy and the amount of trit you need for items so this would make a lot of prices go up I think this have more affect on the market than hulks This is very true, especially because of all the ships that would die trying to pop the freighter. The combined number of minerals used up is massive. It's even a bigger win if that freighter being popped is carrying minerals/ice or other super valuable loot. But even if they are empty it starts to have a massive impact on the market if you take out just 5/day full of cargo.
Traverse Moonstalker GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 22:55:00 - [28] Edited by: Traverse Moonstalker on 06/03/2008 22:55:41 Edited by: Traverse Moonstalker on 06/03/2008 22:55:24 Originally by: Brisco Smiley Originally by: Karanth I read from a few Goons that people mining ice in Minmatar space wouldn't be shot at, or at least mining for Hydrogen Isotopes. Considering where they come from, I wouldn't bet a ship on it. This is not some sinister campaign to shape the galaxy as they see fit. It is a sinister campaign to unshape the galaxy as they see unfit. These are people driven tragically sane by the campaign of aggressive mediocrity we call civilization. They hate everything that is normal, mundane, accepted and safe. They have some sort of cultural need to make people fear the things they take for granted. The amorphous and inscrutable fury of an anonymous mob spares no one. GoonSwarm isn't really an organization, the way most people use the word. They're more of an ongoing riot with a web site. ianag. ymmv. ttfn. Cheers, Brisco Smiley this post is a beautiful shining star among the doldrums of eve-o banter
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 22:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Brisco Smiley Originally by: Karanth I read from a few Goons that people mining ice in Minmatar space wouldn't be shot at, or at least mining for Hydrogen Isotopes. Considering where they come from, I wouldn't bet a ship on it. This is not some sinister campaign to shape the galaxy as they see fit. It is a sinister campaign to unshape the galaxy as they see unfit. These are people driven tragically sane by the campaign of aggressive mediocrity we call civilization. They hate everything that is normal, mundane, accepted and safe. They have some sort of cultural need to make people fear the things they take for granted. The amorphous and inscrutable fury of an anonymous mob spares no one. GoonSwarm isn't really an organization, the way most people use the word. They're more of an ongoing riot with a web site. ianag. ymmv. ttfn. Cheers, Brisco Smiley Impressive. Most impressive.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.06 23:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Jhyme The prophet Karttoon-- peace be upon him-- has stated that Mimmatar space will not be cleansed. A great way to get a ton of hulks in a single section of space, so you can pop tons of them at once.
Traverse Moonstalker GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 23:49:00 - [31] :tinfoil:
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.03.07 00:06:00 - [32] While it may not increase the market price of Hulks and Mackinaws right away, it will increase the volume of Hulks and Macks sold immediately. Since there are a number of Goons who produce Exhumers, they profit. Immediately. Exhumers are not especially difficult to manufacture and the profit margin they enjoy is, even these days, significant. Since invention has driven the price of Exhumers down considerably, it is reasonable to assume that Goons are simply trying to create a volume market to compensate for the loss of obscene profit margins which they once enjoyed. Regards, Windjammer
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.07 00:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Windjammer While it may not increase the market price of Hulks and Mackinaws right away, it will increase the volume of Hulks and Macks sold immediately. Since there are a number of Goons who produce Exhumers, they profit. Immediately. Exhumers are not especially difficult to manufacture and the profit margin they enjoy is, even these days, significant. Since invention has driven the price of Exhumers down considerably, it is reasonable to assume that Goons are simply trying to create a volume market to compensate for the loss of obscene profit margins which they once enjoyed. That sounds so... organized. These are Goons we are talking about! ;-)
Ava Santiago	Posted - 2008.03.07 06:31:00 - [34] The goons have realized that 0.0 space alliances are dependent upon hi-sec markets. A supply shock in minerals and Ice products will filter through to the production of goods and cause Eve-wide inflation. Should these prices rise high enough, insurance will no longer cover ship loss. For an alliance that flies very small ships this is less of a problem than for alliances that fly very big ships. If the trend of 0.0 alliances influencing markets through militaristic actions continues we could have some very dynamic market movements in 2008.
Windjammer	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:58:00 - [35] Originally by: Cergorach That sounds so... organized. These are Goons we are talking about! ;-) Nice tongue in cheek. However, for those that don't understand that, it should be pointed out that while the Goonswarm combat style is simplistic, it does not originate from simple minds. Flawed personalities, yes, but not simple Regards, Windjammer
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.03.07 21:01:00 - [36] Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 07/03/2008 21:01:58 I will agree with the above post. EDIT: Above 2 posts. :-) ALL !'s SIGN HERE and the reason for this is as follows The Server Issue ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.07 22:44:00 - [37] Quote: A supply shock in minerals and Ice products will filter through to the production of goods and cause Eve-wide inflation. Prices on certain items will go up, yes, but that's not really the same thing as universal inflation, is it?
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.03.08 10:23:00 - [38] Originally by: karttoon Originally by: Brisco Smiley Originally by: Karanth I read from a few Goons that people mining ice in Minmatar space wouldn't be shot at, or at least mining for Hydrogen Isotopes. Considering where they come from, I wouldn't bet a ship on it. This is not some sinister campaign to shape the galaxy as they see fit. It is a sinister campaign to unshape the galaxy as they see unfit. These are people driven tragically sane by the campaign of aggressive mediocrity we call civilization. They hate everything that is normal, mundane, accepted and safe. They have some sort of cultural need to make people fear the things they take for granted. The amorphous and inscrutable fury of an anonymous mob spares no one. GoonSwarm isn't really an organization, the way most people use the word. They're more of an ongoing riot with a web site. ianag. ymmv. ttfn. Cheers, Brisco Smiley Impressive. Most impressive. Someone just got Sponsored. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Karanth Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.08 20:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Loads of quotes. Someone just got Sponsored. MP I'll have you know that I came in under my own power. I did learn a few things here, though, so I'd like to say thank you. "Current Earth-Destruction Status"

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