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[low sec and 0.0] My reasons why I am not there

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Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:47:00 - [1] Summary: It is too hard, to the point of being counterproductive for your average EVE player to 'make it' in low and null sec (excepting haulers). These areas are too top heavy in old players (i.e. those who have been playing for a very long time). Detail: For the low/null sec pilots who've played EVE since pre 2006, their life is a happy one. They've trained a lot of skills, they've been in 0.0 for a long time and they've accumulated enough revenue to fund their risky life in low and null sec. For the low/null sec new entrant though, life is cruel. Low sec space is absolutely dominated by faction fitted interceptors, HACs and a smattering of other ship types flown by pirates whose sec is below -7. To back up my accusations, I gave low/null sec life a try for two weeks. I haven't just made a bold statement here and hoped for the best. Whilst I was there, I took note of players in system, how long they'd been playing, what their sec was and what they were flying (assuming I saw the players in space). Who I met in Low sec, in order of most prominent to least: - Industrials flying from gate to 0m gate, presumably hauling. - Pirates with anything from -1 to -10 security. The overwhelming majority had been playing since 2004/5 (over 90%) - Pilots docked in station The entire time I was there, I encountered one single person in local that was not a hauler, pirate or docked player. But I never did find them. I presumed they were at a safespot (no stations in system). As a late 2006 player myself, I found it very daunting being faced by all these pirates with low sec ratings and far longer play times than myself. I did however tell myself that just because a player has playedlonger, does not mean that they are in a ship that is superior. So I went in search of pvp. Finding pvp I could win though was excrutiatingly hard. A lot of people are well aware of how dangerous low sec is and simply arrive in system, and then warp to 0m of a gate. I tried to find miners, but to no avail, except a mining operation guarded by an entire corporation. I even tried to find pirates to pvp with, but discovered that the odds were stacked severely in my opponent's favour. Faction interceptors, HACs flown by 3 year old players and plenty of 'teams' (pilots grouped together to take down people like me). What I found was a total absence of anyone like myself, or any middle ground. It all seemed to be extremes. Either haulers desperately warping to 0m, miners guarded by a fleet, or pirates with enough play-time, bounty and low sec rating to make anyone think twice. There was no-one average, no-one just out there casually looking for some pvp or just generally hanging out in low sec. Who I met in Null sec: This one is easy. Two vast extremes. Either I met nobody at all, or I met entire alliances. The conclusion I've come to is this: If you've played EVE for a long time, you have accumulated many skillpoints, and you'll have the advantage generally over those players younger than yourself, which will be the majority of players. You may still lose encounters against those players, but more likely you will win. If you're in null sec and part of an alliance, your funding and security comes from being part of that alliance. And that funding allows you to pvp inthe safe knowledge that your ship can easily be replaced. For the visitor to low and null sec though, losing a ship is losing a lot. It means you have to accumulate all of those funds again before you can head back out for another fight. And not only that, but the odds are against you because you've got less skillpoints than that 2004 player. I'm running out of characters in this post, which means it's got to wall of text point. Bottom line though, is that I'm staying in high sec where a**holes who want to make my life a misery are not rife, where I can enjoy missions in relative peace. I'm not coming to low sec, because I dont want to stroke your ego :)
Intigo Amarr Art of War	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:54:00 - [2] Yadda yadda yadda. I went to lowsec on my 14-day trial and scored multiple kills solo in my Punisher. EVE has changed since then, sure, but everyone making low-sec or 0.0 sound so 'horrible' and 'scary' are delusional. I fight people with skillpoints that exceed mine on a daily basis, it's not as big a factor as you make it out to be. --
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:56:00 - [3] Despite being a late 05 character I don't even attempt to live in lowsec or 0.0. It's just too much of a pain to do anything. You can't buy much without going to a highsec trade hub. You can't sell much because everyone just goes to a highsec trade hub to buy things. You can't find a fight you won't just lose horribly without bringing your own gang. All in all it's just incredibly inconvenient. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
podadot	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:59:00 - [4] Posting with an alt so as not to offend anyone in my former corp/alliance. Having spent about a year in 0.0, I must say that I found it quite boring. It seemed like all there was to do was rat, sit in a gang and babysit a gate, sit in a gang and fly around desperately trying to find an interesting fight, or occasionally mine. That was pretty much it. Then of course were the occasional security lockdowns. These were great - your corp basically tells you to stay docked or in a pos - so you can't even play Eve. No, I did not find it fun on the alliance side of the equation either. Perhaps some people do have a good time. Lowsec is not much better. I spent some time in lowsec and it was kind of the same with more stations and less ratting. I think this is a big reason why so many people stay in empire. Not because they are afraid to lose ships or whatever, but because there's just more to do.
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Intigo Yadda yadda yadda. I went to lowsec on my 14-day trial and scored multiple kills solo in my Punisher. EVE has changed since then, sure, but everyone making low-sec or 0.0 sound so 'horrible' and 'scary' are delusional. I fight people with skillpoints that exceed mine on a daily basis, it's not as big a factor as you make it out to be. Bullsh*t. I'm sorry, but you lie through your arse. Unless you somehow managed to find a secret cache of new players as new as yourself in low sec, then you did not kill anyone in your 14 day punisher. As an Amarr player myself, I actually find it insulting you even suggest such absolute farce. You know, if you're going to lie about things in pvp in an attempt to somehow weaken or diminish any opinion that stops people from visiting, at least make it believable.
Honethite Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:01:00 - [6] Had some brief, but terrible experiences in 0.0 with previous corps whose alliances held them on a tight leash, clearly I'm missing very little staying away from it all. ----- --> Give Eve Online the score it deserves - Eve Online ftw ! <--
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:02:00 - [7] Originally by: podadot Posting with an alt so as not to offend anyone in my former corp/alliance. Having spent about a year in 0.0, I must say that I found it quite boring. It seemed like all there was to do was rat, sit in a gang and babysit a gate, sit in a gang and fly around desperately trying to find an interesting fight, or occasionally mine. That was pretty much it. Then of course were the occasional security lockdowns. These were great - your corp basically tells you to stay docked or in a pos - so you can't even play Eve. No, I did not find it fun on the alliance side of the equation either. Perhaps some people do have a good time. Lowsec is not much better. I spent some time in lowsec and it was kind of the same with more stations and less ratting. I think this is a big reason why so many people stay in empire. Not because they are afraid to lose ships or whatever, but because there's just more to do. That's an interesting viewpoint that I hadnt considered. But a valuable one none the less.
Popperr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:03:00 - [8] Congratulations on owning this game for two years and never actually playing it.
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Popperr Congratulations on owning this game for two years and never actually playing it. Really? Well I would say the same to you perhaps, were I arrogant enough to propose that there is only one way of playing the game. I suppose the rest of the playerbase should thank ther lucky stars that you dont get to decide how people play EVE. Besides your wild accusation though, I have spent a large portion of my EVE life in low and null sec. I've fought alongside alliances and I've spent a short while as a pirate. I've taken part in gate camps and I've disrupted mining ops. Does that count as 'playing' the game for you? If you insist on bashing keys on your keyboard, maybe put some thought into it first.
Sunabi Caldari Defiance Corp Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:10:00 - [10] The idea that lowsec and 0.0 are full of three-year vets is a myth. The main difference is that you really need to be in a corp and employ teamwork to prosper in lowsec.

Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Intigo Yadda yadda yadda. I went to lowsec on my 14-day trial and scored multiple kills solo in my Punisher. EVE has changed since then, sure, but everyone making low-sec or 0.0 sound so 'horrible' and 'scary' are delusional. I fight people with skillpoints that exceed mine on a daily basis, it's not as big a factor as you make it out to be. Bullsh*t. I'm sorry, but you lie through your arse. Unless you somehow managed to find a secret cache of new players as new as yourself in low sec, then you did not kill anyone in your 14 day punisher. As an Amarr player myself, I actually find it insulting you even suggest such absolute farce. You know, if you're going to lie about things in pvp in an attempt to somehow weaken or diminish any opinion that stops people from visiting, at least make it believable. When I first started pirating around the end of 06 I used a brand new character so I don't tarnish my main "reputation". Killed a few frigs and one brutix with a t1 fitted kestrel. Take it as you well.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:15:00 - [12] There are plenty of month-old players in 0.0 - most alliances have some. And you're "late 2006"? So you have 20-25M SP? That's enough to be a very well specc'd command ship pilot, or battleship, or whatever. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kian Qel'Droma Amarr How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb Unaffiliated	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:15:00 - [13] Although I don't really have any strong feelings one way or the other, I have to say that 0.0 life for me has neverbeen as horrid as some people make it out to be. On a previous character I had a blast doing small-gang pvp... on this character, I never really had the time to accumulate much isk due to work, having perhaps fifty million at any one time max. A couple weeks back, on a whim, I joined up with a nullsec corp, ran my stuff in, set up shop, and promptly made a couple billion isk ratting. I have yet to loose a single ship while out there, though I don't doubt that time will come, and frankly I don't care all that much. Really, with just a basic grasp of using local and the scanner, and even a moderately supportive corp, there isn't really any reason why someone couldn't hack out a decent profit from nullsec. ------------------------------------------------- "In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity."
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Xaen Despite being a late 05 character I don't even attempt to live in lowsec or 0.0. It's just too much of a pain to do anything. You can't buy much without going to a highsec trade hub. You can't sell much because everyone just goes to a highsec trade hub to buy things. I made an offer in the other thread to help with this problem. No surprises nobody has taken me up on it.
Praxis1452 The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Intigo Yadda yadda yadda. I went to lowsec on my 14-day trial and scored multiple kills solo in my Punisher. EVE has changed since then, sure, but everyone making low-sec or 0.0 sound so 'horrible' and 'scary' are delusional. I fight people with skillpoints that exceed mine on a daily basis, it's not as big a factor as you make it out to be. Bullsht. I'm sorry, but you lie through your arse. Unless you somehow managed to find a secret cache of new players as new as yourself in low sec, then you did not kill anyone in your 14 day punisher. As an Amarr player myself, I actually find it insulting you even suggest such absolute farce. You know, if you're going to lie about things in pvp in an attempt to somehow weaken or diminish any opinion that stops people from visiting, at least make it believable. lmfao. Your the idiot here. It's quite possible to find targets in low-sec/0.0 I've killed things in my incursus while on trial. It takes effort. IF you don't want to put any in too bad. -------------------------------------------- ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it*"
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Sunabi The idea that lowsec and 0.0 are full of three-year vets is a myth. The main difference is that you really need to be in a corp and employ teamwork to prosper in lowsec. I meant to include this, sorry. Yes with a corp or alliance there you may well be okay. Presuming you dont meet an established alliance for example. But yes, thanks for pointing that out :)
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:21:00 - [17] There is so much bull****, lies and flat out wrong information in the OP that its just hilarious. Join a corp. Get some real experience in low-sec or nul-sec. Roaming around by yourself with no experience and your head full of 'omg, all the ceptors must be faction fitted and all the 3 year old players will always beat me no matter what' is not how to experience low-sec. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Ridley Tree There is so much bull****, lies and flat out wrong information in the OP that its just hilarious. Join a corp. Get some real experience in low-sec or nul-sec. Roaming around by yourself with no experience and your head full of 'omg, all the ceptors must be faction fitted and all the 3 year old players will always beat me no matter what' is not how to experience low-sec. Firstly, I have (and others) already stated that joining a corp helps. Secondly, I do have some real experience in low AND null sec. And it's because of that experience that I know what people are fighting me with. You're just flaming. Post somehting constructive.
Sereifex Daku Intergalactic Squad Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:29:00 - [19] When it comes down to it, people who play in 0.0 like to play EVE on hard mode. They like to think on their toes, they like to feel a rush of adrenaline when being chased by overwhelming odds. People who play in empire are fine, but the ones who live in empire and also ***** about how hard 0.0 is are the people who want everything easy. They want to everything to be available to them the instant they want something. They want protection. I convey none of this with contempt. I'm merely stating that we have our diffierent worlds. Don't whine about how nobody loves you and we won't wine about how you belong in a carebear game.
Ki Tetro Vanquish Inc	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Jmanis Catharg I made an offer in the other thread to help with this problem. No surprises nobody has taken me up on it. What you offer is nothing that organised corps dont already do for themselves. Why should they pay you to do it?

Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:42:00 - [21] Quote: What you offer is nothing that organised corps dont already do for themselves. Why should they pay you to do it? And I ask again, why should I go to 0.0/Low sec? More importantly, what do you mean by 'organised' anyway? Because by the sounds of it you mean it's a corp that does everything by itself. Let me ask you one simple question. What's more powerful? A corp with 20 committed combat characters, or a corp with half the people running logistics and the other half committed to combat? But you highlight the issue pretty well anyway. Why should I, as a carebear, go to low/0.0 space when the corporations there refuse to provide the market environment I need to and operate in for my eve-career to survive? It's purely a result of this control-freak attitude, where the Corporation must be responsible for everything
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:45:00 - [22] Edited by: Ridley Tree on 05/03/2008 22:45:39 Originally by: Senghir Firstly, I have (and others) already stated that joining a corp helps. Secondly, I do have some real experience in low AND null sec. And it's because of that experience that I know what people are fighting me with. You're just flaming. Post somehting constructive. Mate you are one month younger than I am. You think low-sec is full of faction fitted crows, 3+ year 'demi-god' players in HACs and run away scarred. I am administrating a succesful pirate corp/alliance with plenty of old guys, and plenty of 5 mil sp guys. There is nothing constructive to post for you. You think low-sec and nul-sec is some big scary place where you can never win. And you entered it with that expectation, and that is exactly what you found. I entered nul-sec when I was a week old and started pirating proper with the Rabbits in a thorax when I was three months old. I've been -10.0 since 4 months playing this game. I've never looked back and I've made plenty of isk in the process. You need to get your head out of the 'I can never win' mind-set, otherwise you're not going to get anywhere. Thats the only constructive thing I can say to you. Cheers. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Gamesguy When I first started pirating around the end of 06 I used a brand new character so I don't tarnish my main "reputation". Killed a few frigs and one brutix with a t1 fitted kestrel. Take it as you well. I can vouch for that I too, after about 2 months was in a 0.0 corp, 30 jumps from low sec. Granted, it wasn't the most exciting time of my life, but I was in 0.0, getting into the odd fight. The first player corp I joined was based in low sec (although I didn't know, at the time) and then later 0.0. Surviving in low sec is easy. AFAIK I've never actually been killed there. At least, not in the last 18 months. -- Ralara / Ralarina
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:55:00 - [24] As an addition. Your later posts in the thread contradict your statements in the op. "Besides your wild accusation though, I have spent a large portion of my EVE life in low and null sec. I've fought alongside alliances and I've spent a short while as a pirate. I've taken part in gate camps and I've disrupted mining ops." does not jive with "I tried to find miners, but to no avail, except a mining operation guarded by an entire corporation." or this really "The entire time I was there, I encountered one single person in local that was not a hauler, pirate or docked player. But I never did find them. I presumed they were at a safespot (no stations in system)." As I've killed or probed out the killing of at least a hundred mission runners. The only bit of your post that I like is "I'm not coming to low sec, because I don't want to stroke your ego :)" Because you realize that for some reason you just can't compete. And its not skillpoints thats holding you back mate. Stay in hi-sec. Pray you don't get suicide ganked and run your missions. If thats how you want to play and you enjoy it, more power to you. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Ridley Tree Edited by: Ridley Tree on 05/03/2008 22:45:39 Originally by: Senghir Firstly, I have (and others) already stated that joining a corp helps. Secondly, I do have some real experience in low AND null sec. And it's because of that experience that I know what people are fighting me with. You're just flaming. Post somehting constructive. Mate you are one month younger than I am. You think low-sec is full of faction fitted crows, 3+ year 'demi-god' players in HACs and run away scarred. I am administrating a succesful pirate corp/alliance with plenty of old guys, and plenty of 5 mil sp guys. There is nothing constructive to post for you. You think low-sec and nul-sec is some big scary place where you can never win. And you entered it with that expectation, and that is exactly what you found. I entered nul-sec when I was a week old and started pirating proper with the Rabbits in a thorax when I was three months old. I've been -10.0 since 4 months playing this game. I've never looked back and I've made plenty of isk in the process. You need to get your head out of the 'I can never win' mind-set, otherwise you're not going to get anywhere. Thats the only constructive thing I can say to you. Cheers. Well thanks for the more constructive post. I am aware that being in a corp makes things much easier, but if you dont have one in low sec, or you dont want one, then you really are screwed. Whereas this isnt the case for high sec obviously. There is definitely no scared attitude or expectation of loss from me. That may be well be the stereotype of a 'carebear' high sec dweller, but it isnt me. I've won a fair few of my engagements, probably about half actually, which is what I'd expect. What I'm telling you though is that I've experienced both sides of the coin, and overall it is just too hard in low and null sec. Note, that isn't just that it's challenging, but that it's too hard.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Ridley Tree Edited by: Ridley Tree on 05/03/2008 22:45:39 Originally by: Senghir Firstly, I have (and others) already stated that joining a corp helps. Secondly, I do have some real experience in low AND null sec. And it's because of that experience that I know what people are fighting me with. You're just flaming. Post somehting constructive. Mate you are one month younger than I am. You think low-sec is full of faction fitted crows, 3+ year 'demi-god' players in HACs and run away scarred. I am administrating a succesful pirate corp/alliance with plenty of old guys, and plenty of 5 mil sp guys. There is nothing constructive to post for you. You think low-sec and nul-sec is some big scary place where you can never win. And you entered it with that expectation, and that is exactly what you found. I entered nul-sec when I was a week old and started pirating proper with the Rabbits in a thorax when I was three months old. I've been -10.0 since 4 months playing this game. I've never looked back and I've made plenty of isk in the process. You need to get your head out of the 'I can never win' mind-set, otherwise you're not going to get anywhere. Thats the only constructive thing I can say to you. Cheers. Well thanks for the more constructive post. I am aware that being in a corp makes things much easier, but if you dont have one in low sec, or you dont want one, then you really are screwed. Whereas this isnt the case for high sec obviously. There is definitely no scared attitude or expectation of loss from me. That may be well be the stereotype of a 'carebear' high sec dweller, but it isnt me. I've won a fair few of my engagements, probably about half actually, which is what I'd expect. What I'm telling you though is that I've experienced both sides of the coin, and overall it is just too hard in low and null sec. Note, that isn't just that it's challenging, but that it's too hard. What makes it too hard, though? -- Ralara / Ralarina
Senghir Amarr Deep Space Security	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Ridley Tree As an addition. Your later posts in the thread contradict your statements in the op. "Besides your wild accusation though, I have spent a large portion of my EVE life in low and null sec. I've fought alongside alliances and I've spent a short while as a pirate. I've taken part in gate camps and I've disrupted mining ops." does not jive with "I tried to find miners, but to no avail, except a mining operation guarded by an entire corporation." or this really "The entire time I was there, I encountered one single person in local that was not a hauler, pirate or docked player. But I never did find them. I presumed they were at a safespot (no stations in system)." As I've killed or probed out the killing of at least a hundred mission runners. The only bit of your post that I like is "I'm not coming to low sec, because I don't want to stroke your ego :)" Because you realize that for some reason you just can't compete. And its not skillpoints thats holding you back mate. Stay in hi-sec. Pray you don't get suicide ganked and run your missions. If thats how you want to play and you enjoy it, more power to you. They don't contradict, you just havent read my post. My original post I tell you that I ran a test for two weeks. The results I state in the original post are for those two weeks. The other statements you quote from my replies are about my experiences of low and null sec in the complete sense. Not just those two weeks.
Sereifex Daku Intergalactic Squad Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:08:00 - [28] Something else to consider is that 0.0 is a big place. Your experience depends on where in 0.0 you go, which corporations/alliances you encounter, etc. Some areas are almsot devoid of players while other areas are extremely busy and dangerous warzones. It is likely that you think 0.0 is hard to lonely or boring because you haven't spent enough time there.
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:12:00 - [29] Edited by: Ridley Tree on 05/03/2008 23:13:55 Originally by: Senghir They don't contradict, you just havent read my post. My original post I tell you that I ran a test for two weeks. The results I state in the original post are for those two weeks. The other statements you quote from my replies are about my experiences of low and null sec in the complete sense. Not just those two weeks. Na, they do contradict. What exactly is the point of 'To back up my accusations, I gave low/null sec life a try for two weeks.' if you've already lived in 0.0 or nul-sec? Frankly I don't buy your 'I've done awesome 0.0 and low-sec stuffs.' Unless this is not your main. You've been a member of some Khanid RP corps and a Khanid RP alliance that failed and doesn't exist anymore. All of the corps are now dead or very low-members and none of them have any website or killboards to look at it. So yeah, I don't buy you as an experienced 0.0 pvper or low-sec pirate. Originally by: Senghir Note, that isn't just that it's challenging, but that it's too hard. This might be more to your liking. I just had a gate-camp crashed by four motherships and seven carriers. Low-sec is hard. Its fun. Deal with it. ____ Black Rabbits Recruitment
The Herrick Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:16:00 - [30] I have 4mil sp, live in lowsec, have enough funds to keep me in cruisers/battle cruisers, have made a profit and had a huge amount of fun. My first kill was a ratting moa (lol, tracking) while on my trial time whilst in an incursus with less then 900ksp. A lot of your issues are in your head. So long as you take the time to watch your back and use the map functions to plan your routes (to either avoid or seek out combat) it's quite possible to make it in lowsec/nullsec. Cruisers are cheap, durable and provide a nice amount of punch even with vanilla t1 fit buy 5 or so ships, insure them and park them on the highsec side of your stomping grounds and go have fun. Originally by: Tania Russ Those of us who actually build stuff and accomplish something worthwhile in Eve, as opposed to pirates, who basically don't accomplish anything but stealing other people's stuff.



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