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low sec and much of 0.0 offers little to no benefit

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RC Denton	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:23:00 - [1] I'm seeing a ton of threads about pushing carebears into low sec and 0.0. But it will never happen given the current condition of low sec and most of 0.0. The reason being is that when you go into low sec and also in large sections of 0.0 the risk goes way up while the reward is only marginally greater. Let's take lonetrek and the pure blind regions for example. The majority of lonetrek low sec areas have little to no differentiation in ore types from high sec. There are a few systems with some nice "low sec" ore like hedbergite, but not very many. In addition the rats are only marginally better in terms of bounties. Yet when you go into low sec the risk goes way up. Gate camps, pirates in the belts, station camps, etc. The only real draw is the exploration sites which are by and large superior to the high sec ones. The same holds true of pure blind and large regions of 0.0 space. Deep 0.0 is owned by large alliances, and that's a different story. If you want to deal with large alliance politics and BS then you can do quite well out there, but medium to close to empire 0.0 sucks. The best ore in pureblind is crokite, it exists only in one system. And that system is the most highly camped system in EVE. The rest of pureblind has jaspet, I.E. crapola. In terms of exploration sites it's about the same as low sec, and with alot of the exploration loot tanking in price (books, parts, etc) it's less of a draw than it used to be. Ratting is nice out there, but that's more of an occasional thing to do vs a lifestyle. People can take "weekend" trips to 0.0 to rat then head back to empire. There's no compelling reason to stay out there. This is why the vast majority of people stay in empire. There's a large buffer of mostly useless space between Empire and the real treasures in 0.0.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:29:00 - [2] Did we really need another entire thread on this? ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:31:00 - [3] only the 0.0 systems that are true-sec below -0.5 have even a marginal PvE value, compared to missions and mining in hi-sec. and only the ones below -0.7 are really worth ratting in. the majority of 0.0 is little more than just space to occupy and have wars in. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
RC Denton	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Tarminic Did we really need another entire thread on this? If it got the famous tarminic to respond to it. Then it was all worthwhile.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:40:00 - [5] You are 100% correct about low sec. As for 0.0 I cannot say just yet but I will be heading that way some time soon. This is what I do hear though that there are vast expanses of 0.0 that are empty yet are still claimed by the Alliances. Perhaps if they made some changes to holding 0.0 space in such a way that a corp or small alliance could head out and stake a claim to these largely abandoned systems. Systems that these Alliances hold for no other reason than they drop a freighters worth of fuel into a POS every so often, and can claim cause they can show up in force and crush everything anyone else tries to set up there even if THEY consider it a useless "trash space" systems. I don't have a solution, but i guess I'm saying it seems too easy to hold 0.0 space as long as you can choose 10-20 people to camp a gate every night. I could be wrong but I will know better when I head out there.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:42:00 - [6] Originally by: RC Denton Originally by: Tarminic Did we really need another entire thread on this? If it got the famous tarminic to respond to it. Then it was all worthwhile. I'll have you know that flattery has no effect on me, and I see no reason why you should have not made this original and well thought out post. ---------------- Tarminic - 33 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.79
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.07 19:45:00 - [7] 0.0 is where the epic stuff happens empire is just a place to cool down from all the excitment, sell some loot
Dirtee Girl Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.03.07 20:00:00 - [8] empire is like an old age home where people are most likely to die from boredom or old age rather than combat . * *
Mith Dahn	Posted - 2008.03.07 20:11:00 - [9] Empire is somewhere you can actually undock without being ganked by a) reds/hostile players, and/or b) your own alliance for not spending all night in a roaming gang scanning for the cloaked rapier thats been sitting in system for 48 hours straight. Oh yeah that's the entire population vs you, have fun or logoff,.... or oh yeah go to highsec! DOH I forgot Goonswarm is locking that down too. Thanks CCP if I remain logged off for the rest of the month whats the point of paying for this crap anymore?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.03.07 20:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Alora Venoda only the 0.0 systems that are true-sec below -0.5 have even a marginal PvE value, compared to missions and mining in hi-sec. and only the ones below -0.7 are really worth ratting in. the majority of 0.0 is little more than just space to occupy and have wars in. 0.0 Missions = more ISK, much more LPs, pirate implants, pirate faction ships and otherwise comparable faction LP items. Those implants alone are pretty valuable. Except maybe Halos which suck (but even they sell). Can't say too much about the Ore, but I do remember a couple of years ago mining Crokite was a pretty amazing income even for a combat pilot such as myself (trained up just enough to use T2 lasers on an Osprey). But Zydrine was also worth a lot more back then...
Guillame Herschel Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.07 22:25:00 - [11] Originally by: RC Denton I'm seeing a ton of threads about pushing carebears into low sec and 0.0. But it will never happen given the current condition of low sec and most of 0.0. The reason being is that when you go into low sec and also in large sections of 0.0 the risk goes way up while the reward is only marginally greater. Really? Gosh, no one has ever brought that up before. What a novel insight you have produced. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. --*
RC Denton	Posted - 2008.03.07 22:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: RC Denton I'm seeing a ton of threads about pushing carebears into low sec and 0.0. But it will never happen given the current condition of low sec and most of 0.0. The reason being is that when you go into low sec and also in large sections of 0.0 the risk goes way up while the reward is only marginally greater. Really? Gosh, no one has ever brought that up before. What a novel insight you have produced. Well gosh if it's so un-novel why do we get a ton of crybear threads stating "waahh I've blown my sec status to heck and now I can't find anyone to gank anymore, please shield me from taking responsibility for my actions by forcing people into low sec where I can gank them again."
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.03.07 22:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Alora Venoda only the 0.0 systems that are true-sec below -0.5 have even a marginal PvE value, compared to missions and mining in hi-sec. and only the ones below -0.7 are really worth ratting in. the majority of 0.0 is little more than just space to occupy and have wars in. 0.0 Missions = more ISK, much more LPs, pirate implants, pirate faction ships and otherwise comparable faction LP items. Those implants alone are pretty valuable. Except maybe Halos which suck (but even they sell). Can't say too much about the Ore, but I do remember a couple of years ago mining Crokite was a pretty amazing income even for a combat pilot such as myself (trained up just enough to use T2 lasers on an Osprey). But Zydrine was also worth a lot more back then... My point is that most of 0.0 is worthless. Your arguments point out that yes there are valuable areas, but they still don't cover a "majority" of 0.0 systems out there. Out of all the 0.0 systems in EVE, the ratio of systems with 0.0 mission agents to the number of systems without them is less than the ratio of systems below -0.7... You will not find Crokite or similarly valued ores in systems with true-sec above -0.5. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.07 22:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Tarminic Did we really need another entire thread on this? I would suppose, as long as people think it is broken, there will be threads about it. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Khanitoph	Posted - 2008.03.08 09:08:00 - [15] 0.0 is awesome. where else am I going to find nice belts just packed with arkanor or bistot?
Pantaloon McPants	Posted - 2008.03.08 10:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Khanitoph 0.0 is awesome. where else am I going to find nice belts just packed with arkanor or bistot? Yeah thats great, but he was referring to low sec, re-read his post. He has a point, low sec is hopeless, we should turn it into highsec or 0.0 and push all lowsec pirates into hellokittyonline where there greifing will reach such magnificently exponential new heights of awesomeness there epeens will grow so large as to blow off there pants, and thus requiring them to wear skirts or kilts instead of pants in the future. ummm ..
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.08 11:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Pantaloon McPants Originally by: Khanitoph 0.0 is awesome. where else am I going to find nice belts just packed with arkanor or bistot? Yeah thats great, but he was referring to low sec, re-read his post. He has a point, low sec is hopeless, we should turn it into highsec or 0.0 and push all lowsec pirates into hellokittyonline where there greifing will reach such magnificently exponential new heights of awesomeness there epeens will grow so large as to blow off there pants, and thus requiring them to wear skirts or kilts instead of pants in the future. ummm .. Are you saying all pirates are of Scottish or Samoan origin? Also....LOL. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
RIP T'orn Ravenclaw Manufacturing DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.08 12:00:00 - [18] I love how most people will say how horrible and useless 0.0 is, but they've never been out there for any amount of time. Getting set up in 0.0 IS a pain, but it's well worth it if you know how to live out there. Take ratting for example: In my area of 0.0, I can find triple 1.8 mill spawn, and kill them in just a few minutes. That's a lot of isk for one belt not even counting loot. Also, corp members can find explorations sites and other goodies. There's a lot of money to be made there also. 0.0 IS useless if you don't know how to live out there, or decide, "Hey, I feel like taking my noobcorp ass out there to live for a while." It doesn't work like that. Get in an alliance. As for lowsec, the same thing goes. Not ALL of lowsec is useless. You're describing the .4 and .3 systems near empire. If you wanna spend time in lowsec without getting popped, you need to travel. Find some areas of lowsec that aren't busy. Believe me, there's a lot of them out there. If the lonetrek region sucks so much, WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE? Quit complaining and trying to get it changed and move on. Eve is pretty big you know.
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.08 12:43:00 - [19] Originally by: RIP T'orn I love how most people will say how horrible and useless 0.0 is, but they've never been out there for any amount of time. Bingo. 0.0 is so useless that our more experienced corp members have gotten ridiculously wealthy from living there. And it's fun as hell. Number of complaints I have since I moved out there: 0.0
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.08 14:27:00 - [20] Originally by: RC Denton I'm seeing a ton of threads about pushing carebears into low sec and 0.0. But it will never happen given the current condition of low sec and most of 0.0. The reason being is that when you go into low sec and also in large sections of 0.0 the risk goes way up while the reward is only marginally greater. Let's take lonetrek and the pure blind regions for example. The majority of lonetrek low sec areas have little to no differentiation in ore types from high sec. There are a few systems with some nice "low sec" ore like hedbergite, but not very many. In addition the rats are only marginally better in terms of bounties. Yet when you go into low sec the risk goes way up. Gate camps, pirates in the belts, station camps, etc. The only real draw is the exploration sites which are by and large superior to the high sec ones. The same holds true of pure blind and large regions of 0.0 space. Deep 0.0 is owned by large alliances, and that's a different story. If you want to deal with large alliance politics and BS then you can do quite well out there, but medium to close to empire 0.0 sucks. The best ore in pureblind is crokite, it exists only in one system. And that system is the most highly camped system in EVE. The rest of pureblind has jaspet, I.E. crapola. In terms of exploration sites it's about the same as low sec, and with alot of the exploration loot tanking in price (books, parts, etc) it's less of a draw than it used to be. Ratting is nice out there, but that's more of an occasional thing to do vs a lifestyle. People can take "weekend" trips to 0.0 to rat then head back to empire. There's no compelling reason to stay out there. This is why the vast majority of people stay in empire. There's a large buffer of mostly useless space between Empire and the real treasures in 0.0. If it's mining you want, join a drone space alliance. The belts there are unbelievable now. IIRC there're over 100 systems with Arkanor, Bistot and Crokite. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.03.08 14:54:00 - [21] Moon mining rakes in billions. I don't see anyone doing that in High-Sec... Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I usually close my eyes and just beg, out loud added with a lot of squealing. I swear it helps.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.08 17:51:00 - [22] Originally by: RC Denton I'm seeing a ton of threads about pushing carebears into low sec and 0.0. But it will never happen given the current condition of low sec and most of 0.0. The reason being is that when you go into low sec and also in large sections of 0.0 the risk goes way up while the reward is only marginally greater. Let's take lonetrek and the pure blind regions for example. The majority of lonetrek low sec areas have little to no differentiation in ore types from high sec. There are a few systems with some nice "low sec" ore like hedbergite, but not very many. In addition the rats are only marginally better in terms of bounties. Yet when you go into low sec the risk goes way up. Gate camps, pirates in the belts, station camps, etc. The only real draw is the exploration sites which are by and large superior to the high sec ones. The same holds true of pure blind and large regions of 0.0 space. Deep 0.0 is owned by large alliances, and that's a different story. If you want to deal with large alliance politics and BS then you can do quite well out there, but medium to close to empire 0.0 sucks. The best ore in pureblind is crokite, it exists only in one system. And that system is the most highly camped system in EVE. The rest of pureblind has jaspet, I.E. crapola. In terms of exploration sites it's about the same as low sec, and with alot of the exploration loot tanking in price (books, parts, etc) it's less of a draw than it used to be. Ratting is nice out there, but that's more of an occasional thing to do vs a lifestyle. People can take "weekend" trips to 0.0 to rat then head back to empire. There's no compelling reason to stay out there. This is why the vast majority of people stay in empire. There's a large buffer of mostly useless space between Empire and the real treasures in 0.0. Says the corpless loser. ----------------- Friends Forever
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.08 21:26:00 - [23] Yet another topic/thread that could have been copied over from 6 months ago. Hell, I figured they woulda done something about Low-Sec Risk/Rewards by now, or struck on SOME kind of amazing plan to get some HiSec'er interest in there (besides lawlz-worthy mission change efforts). Guess not.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.03.08 21:28:00 - [24] Gawd I thought video games was about fun not lp rewards. I know its not fun trying new things and all.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.03.08 22:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Alora Venoda only the 0.0 systems that are true-sec below -0.5 have even a marginal PvE value, compared to missions and mining in hi-sec. and only the ones below -0.7 are really worth ratting in. the majority of 0.0 is little more than just space to occupy and have wars in. Either you are very ignorant about null sec, or just uhh... I don't know... I'll stick with ignorant! You can easily make double or triple the cash from ratting in a -0.25 system than from lvl 4's. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Medory Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.03.09 00:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Soporo Yet another topic/thread that could have been copied over from 6 months ago. Hell, I figured they woulda done something about Low-Sec Risk/Rewards by now, or struck on SOME kind of amazing plan to get some HiSec'er interest in there (besides lawlz-worthy mission change efforts). Guess not. You mean like Faction Warfare? /me says hopefully.......
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.03.09 00:49:00 - [27] Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 09/03/2008 00:50:56 Originally by: RC Denton opinions from a 2 week old player I don't know, why don't you do something crazy like join a corp or an alliance. MAybe then you will see the benefits of 0.0. Perhaps not, you seem far to quick to form your own opinion. Maybe a multi player game is not for you Originally by: RC Denton Well gosh if it's so un-novel why do we get a ton of crybear threads stating "waahh I've blown my sec status to heck and now I can't find anyone to gank anymore, please shield me from taking responsibility for my actions by forcing people into low sec where I can gank them again." Just stay in high sec...then when you finished crying...quit game Hello Kitty awaits you
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.03.09 01:37:00 - [28] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 09/03/2008 01:37:30 Lowsec isn't as profitable as it should be...but if you're in a good lowsec area, risk is pretty minimal. LONETREK IS A ****TY EXAMPLE. LONETREK is in overpopulated Caldari space and overrun with pirates. Simple solution: move out of Lonetrek The vast majority of players I see out in the lowsec where I am are in industrial/"carebear" corps.
The Herrick Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.03.09 01:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Pantaloon McPants new heights of awesomeness there epeens will grow so large as to blow off there pants, and thus requiring them to wear skirts or kilts instead of pants in the future. I already wear a dress for this reason Originally by: Tania Russ Those of us who actually build stuff and accomplish something worthwhile in Eve, as opposed to pirates, who basically don't accomplish anything but stealing other people's stuff.

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