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Delphi Disra
Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Delphi Disra on 09/03/2008 02:42:25 I thought you were doing a BOOST patch....Nerfing resists on all ships != Boost (as you devs like to say it... )
I think that you have nerfed for so long and continuosly look to nerf stuff that you cant get your minds away from it. What the heck do you not understand about BOOST?
Why for once dont you approach the issue by actually boosting the ships that need it instead of nerfing the ships that are already defunkt. Caldari ships are missile boats, boosting guns does absolutly nothing for them, you didnt up their cap either... which they would need to continusoul run the guns.
The raven is a piece of crap even more so after this patch than it ever was... not to mention all the capacitor problems amarr will be having now. Amarr are now screwed cause they wont be able to keep their Lazers running....
AGAIN PLEASE TRY TO ACTUALLY BOOST SHIPS THAT NEED IT INSTEAD OF KILLING ALL THE OTHER SHIPS TO MAKE UP FOR IT!
Good job on the overview though.
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Lufi125
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:42:00 -
[2]
/ SIGNED!!...
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Tony Unrau
Caldari Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:43:00 -
[3]
ANGRY!!!!!!!!
Fix the Fff.ff.. flippin Raven
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:44:00 -
[4]
Balance usually involves making something better and making something worse. In this case resistances, and what has the raven loosing some explosive resistance got to do with it? So does every other ship. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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tGmonster
Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:46:00 -
[5]
Same here, And whats will killing my cap!?!?!?!?
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Delphi Disra
Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:46:00 -
[6]
again they promised a boost patch not a balance patch... they have nerfed the raven twice....
ANGRY!
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Delphi Disra again they promised a boost patch not a balance patch... they have nerfed the raven twice....
ANGRY!
They have made it a viable PvP ship and its been wrapped up in a change for everything. Using your mentality its had a BOOST since its EM missiles will do more damage.
Stop looking at this from just YOUR point of view. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Delphi Disra
Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.03.09 02:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Delphi Disra on 09/03/2008 02:51:48 No one goes caldari for PVP their shield tank isnt used for it, but again you are going off topic, this was supposed to be a boost patch not a nerf all ships and than nerf some other stuff to make other ships look better patch. THAT IS THE CORE ISSUE!
Stop arguing about the raven i think its nerfed for PVE you THINK it's boosted for PVP THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 03:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Delphi Disra Edited by: Delphi Disra on 09/03/2008 02:51:48 No one goes caldari for PVP their shield tank isnt used for it, but again you are going off topic, this was supposed to be a boost patch not a nerf all ships and than nerf some other stuff to make other ships look better patch. THAT IS THE CORE ISSUE!
Stop arguing about the raven i think its nerfed for PVE you THINK it's boosted for PVP THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND
No the issue at hand is the raven is still considered one of the best ships for PVE (cruise missiles anyone?) And that using the correct rigs/implants the torp raven for PVE is better than it was....
The raven is and can be used in PVP with similar damage to the mega, is faster since the mega has to fit plates, hits at a longer range and fits a better buffer tank when you fly with gangmates who tackle, because well thats what caldari is supposed to be about.
They wanted to boost amarr so decided to cut back the high EM resist, they made this effective across all ships so no others are really effected. They also put the explosive resistance on shields down a small ammount so that shield tanks did not have an unfair advantage.
Also don't quote to me the minmitar ammo getting boosted, its like 3% because of the three way damage done, for everyone else there are better damage types to be done/cant change them so they are unaffected. Ergo, boost to Amarr. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Escobar Noreaga
Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.03.09 03:41:00 -
[10]
ANGRY TYPING IN CAPS ALL TIME. _________
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Lufi125
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Posted - 2008.03.09 05:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lufi125 on 09/03/2008 05:37:15
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Delphi Disra Edited by: Delphi Disra on 09/03/2008 02:51:48 No one goes caldari for PVP their shield tank isnt used for it, but again you are going off topic, this was supposed to be a boost patch not a nerf all ships and than nerf some other stuff to make other ships look better patch. THAT IS THE CORE ISSUE!
Stop arguing about the raven i think its nerfed for PVE you THINK it's boosted for PVP THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND
No the issue at hand is the raven is still considered one of the best ships for PVE (cruise missiles anyone?) And that using the correct rigs/implants the torp raven for PVE is better than it was....
The raven is and can be used in PVP with similar damage to the mega, is faster since the mega has to fit plates, hits at a longer range and fits a better buffer tank when you fly with gangmates who tackle, because well thats what caldari is supposed to be about.
They wanted to boost amarr so decided to cut back the high EM resist, they made this effective across all ships so no others are really effected. They also put the explosive resistance on shields down a small ammount so that shield tanks did not have an unfair advantage.
Also don't quote to me the minmitar ammo getting boosted, its like 3% because of the three way damage done, for everyone else there are better damage types to be done/cant change them so they are unaffected. Ergo, boost to Amarr.
Look dude, your dumb, im sorry, Raven similar damage as the mega?.. no... but anyway this isnt about the raven, This is about the fact that the devs said they were going to stop nerf'ing thing for a change what just happend? NERF
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.09 07:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lufi125 this isnt about the raven, This is about the fact that the devs said they were going to stop nerf'ing thing for a change what just happend? NERF
I don't see a Raven nurf, I see a reistance balance. Its clear you have never experienced a caldari nurf or anything like a nurf - all ships will have less explosive shield resistances and less armor EM resistances - the 'nurf' is too broad to be considered a nurf at all.
Also, the torp changes were a good thing for caldari pvp. . .it was actually a major buff. I know you fly your raven to rat in and thats great for you, use cruise missles. I am sure the less explosive resist will not make Angel Extravaganza or whatever more difficult. . .So if its PvP you are worried about - no one hits shields with explosive damage, even after the resist changes. And PvE is already such a breeze, I really can't see you losing your CNR to this. . . ----
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.09 12:00:00 -
[13]
Game balance is always relative. If you simply boost ONE ship it relatively nerfs every other ship. So this thread is fail.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2008.03.09 12:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 09/03/2008 12:28:32 Well, technically, the coming patch is a nerf for PVE play as resistances drop across the board for player ships. I have not seen any mention of NPC resistances being brought to the same level. This effectively makes tanking NPC missions a bit harder.
For PVP, nothing really changes except the increase in effectiveness for Amarr lasers and Minmatar EMP ammo. Caldari benefits to a lesser extent with EM/EX missiles. Gallante stays at status quo.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.03.09 12:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 09/03/2008 12:28:32 Well, technically, the coming patch is a nerf for PVE play as resistances drop across the board for player ships. I have not seen any mention of NPC resistances being brought to the same level. This effectively makes tanking NPC missions a bit harder.
For PVP, nothing really changes except the increase in effectiveness for Amarr lasers and Minmatar EMP ammo. Caldari benefits to a lesser extent with EM/EX missiles. Gallante stays at status quo.
So basically its all good. If anything, pve is too easy anyway so who cares if you cant afk tank lvl 4s or not. Oh noes. These changes are good step towards fixing damage type inconsistancies. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.03.09 14:55:00 -
[16]
Somebody has been waking up late? this has been discussed for weeks as it was on sisi... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Cape Fear
PRIMOS LOCOS The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.03.09 16:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cape Fear on 09/03/2008 16:21:22 Edited by: Cape Fear on 09/03/2008 16:17:36 Edited by: Cape Fear on 09/03/2008 16:15:33 As a Caldari pilot im disappointed about alot of NERFs that have happened. I have seen the good and the bad. All we can do is adapt to everything that gets patched.
Reducing the torpedo range hurt the ships that use them alot as I really don't see why the known long range heavy damage missles cannot even go past 30km without enhancments but NPC rats can fire them over 100km away...Did we forget to NERF them aswell? Same with NPC frigs locking over 254km away.
The Rokh to Caldari missle boat pilots was the worst ship produced. Alot of us do not have the skills to use turrets as Caldari is known for cruise missles and torpedos. The Raven in general from personal experience has been nerfed to the point its useless. The massive shield tanking raven is now just a myth.
As for balancing the capacitor it looses more cap then it gains active or passive tanking the booster eats far too much capacitor. Im only pointing this towards caladri cause I do not have experience in the other races to provide my honost opinions.
Yes ive got a Rokh "For Mining" cause thats all my gunner skills allow. So Devs I would ask but its at your discretion. And please any repliers to this post please understand this is just my point of view and soley represents my thoughts.
P.S. Would be nice to make the raven have the capability to operate 5 heavy drones never really understood why its only at 75m3 capacity unless your expecting it to just run 3 sentries... *SIGNED*
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.03.09 16:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cape Fear
Reducing the Caldari Torps hurt the ships that use them alot
I stopped reading here.
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Cape Fear
PRIMOS LOCOS The Red Skull
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Posted - 2008.03.09 16:20:00 -
[19]
Thanks for the sarcastic remarks already as my draft got posted before the final. Please stick to the topic at hand instead of complaining about others grammer.
Not pointing fingers.....
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Viglen
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2008.03.09 18:09:00 -
[20]
I'm not gonna bother,,,, again!
But then again, we're all different and we react differently to changes. some whine! others complain!
And some people get so mad they can't read the entire patch notes and stop to think before posting!
Can anybody point me to a forum that hasn't been overtaken by whines and screams off despair?
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Sakhr Otaktay
Amarr The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 22:32:00 -
[21]
amarr is getting boosted.. ie a BOOST patch.. ------ Zombies! Aliens! Vampires! Dinosaurs! |
Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:13:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 09/03/2008 23:16:31
Maybe you use Amarr ship but don't forget others players. To have YOUR boost, all races was resist nerfed.
Yes, in the same time, I can shoot you more fastly if I use the correct type of missile, but... In a battle, I don't really have the time to load the correct one, so I prefer use the type who have a bonus on my ship. Generally > Kinetic.
But in fact, the opinion on a boost/nerf must be done by seeing you in the future.
So, in my view, as a Caldari... - Ferox = +1 Turret Hardpoint, +75PG Yes this is a boost, but... Who use the Ferox anyway ? I never used this ship before this patch and this will never change, as he does crappy DPS same in close range. This is a boost, but not a really useful one. - Moa = +1 Turret Hardpoint Well... I don't use Moa too, and I don't often see this ship (Who use Moa anyway too ?). - Eagle = +1 Turret Hardpoint Yes this is a boost. This will require new fittings as no more CPU/PG was added, but... I don't use an Eagle everyday (in fact, I never use one, I use only Cerberus). This is still a boost anyway, good point. - Raptor = +1 Turret Hardpoint, -4 PG This is a nerf, as the Raptor is not a good ship actualy, but retire some PG can not invert it, so this is a nerf. - -10% Shield Explosive Resistance Gach... Like everyone, I use ships ^^, but this modification, I can't avoid it. So in a daily basis, it is more annoying to have -10% EXP Resistance than be able to use 5 turrets in an Eagle or a Ferox.
Mimmatar ships on my losses are not in the last place... This will NOT help me to suffer of this modification for what ? To see Amarr be able to do more damages ? It could be done by an another way, certainly.
As I am not Amarr, I don't use their ships.
Conclusion : In a daily basis, this is a NERF patch, for my activities at least, but I think that I can say : A nerf for Caldari, in a general view. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
Skar Rynn
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
Originally by: Lufi125 this isnt about the raven, This is about the fact that the devs said they were going to stop nerf'ing thing for a change what just happend? NERF
I don't see a Raven nurf, I see a reistance balance. Its clear you have never experienced a caldari nurf or anything like a nurf - all ships will have less explosive shield resistances and less armor EM resistances - the 'nurf' is too broad to be considered a nurf at all.
Also, the torp changes were a good thing for caldari pvp. . .it was actually a major buff. I know you fly your raven to rat in and thats great for you, use cruise missles. I am sure the less explosive resist will not make Angel Extravaganza or whatever more difficult. . .So if its PvP you are worried about - no one hits shields with explosive damage, even after the resist changes. And PvE is already such a breeze, I really can't see you losing your CNR to this. . .
I understand exactly why the devs changed the torps to close range for better pvp, however It appears that they are reducing armor EM and armor Explo resist? however on caldari boats we have NO EM resistances to begin with. most all armour tanking ships are not at this disadvantage and have at least SOME base resistances in all areas.
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Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:29:00 -
[24]
Ok, so its not a boost unless its a boost to you? Look, I know Zulupark takes a lot of ****, but as a game, there are going to be changes and alternations that take place. Boosts and Nurfs are part of the cycle and the introduction of new ships nessestiates the changing of balance. The Caldari are getting a lot of love this patch, the Eagle change alone is huge. While I know that a lot of people don't fly the eagle and still will not (its too situational for everyday use) its still a change.
The resistance changes are there to try to balance out the massive resists that can be achived these days. Personally I would have cut resistances across the board by 15% to account for the compensation skills and then tack the extra 10% to the expl/em resist bit - but there is a reason I am not a dev. The truth of the matter is: EM is getting cut by 10% on armor, and it would be very unbalanced to cut armor base resists without cutting something from shields. I see your 0% EM resist on shield argument, and I belive it has been addressed - but in all honesty - would you have rather seen Ken or Therm be cut? I don't think so. Dispite everything, Explosive damage is relativly rare and ken/therm is the most common and those don't change. The only people who are really upset by the changes are mission runners - but to be honest, its not a large enough change to warrent an extra explosive hardnener. And in PvP, the changes are relativly insignificant.
My advise would be to wait and see. Lets see how it works out in TQ when all the people who don't play on SiSi in control get it - you may find that it was not enough. Ultimatly though, the changes are not nurfs at all since they affect everyone. No single ship, class or race is getting nurfed. But get ready, there are major changes comming and I think a lot of them are long overdue. ----
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Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:44:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 09/03/2008 23:45:52
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Dispite everything, Explosive damage is relativly rare and ken/therm is the most common and those don't change.
As I wrote in the Zulupark thread one month ago, explosive damage are NOT so rare than we can think same for a shield tank, from Matar at the same time - Linkage to my post with some of my losses
My last loss, one week ago against BOB, 17 matars on 39 FOE, and 4 of them did good damages...
This will not change nothing, this will only make things worse or good for Matar players but well, we will see. I will have more reasons to whine in the future when I will see my future losses. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
Lucrafin
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:44:00 -
[26]
Whait what?
Ok, load some EM and Explosive missiles in your launchers and you get a 25% damage bonus to armor / shield respectivly... What's being nerfed again?
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Sky Marshal
Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.03.09 23:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 09/03/2008 23:50:09
As stated in some discussions, there is a risk that some players will use some EANM II for their tank instead of a full specific hardener set like today to upgrade the EM armor resist at the same time.
So a EM/Explo missile combo can be not so efficient than expected. _______
16/20 Dragon : ½ Great Game + 14/20 Revelations : ½ Desyncs... + 11/20 Trinity : ½ BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs + 10/20 v1.1 : ½ [...] + EXP shield nerf +
CCP, you are tiring. |
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