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Raven Timoshenko
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Posted - 2008.03.13 06:24:00 -
[1]
A friend of mine was a victim of a suicide gank in high sec, loosing some valuable cargo because Concord could not respond fast enough, and also to good old lag.
So here is my idea that will drastically reduce this nonsense by making it tougher to target ships in high sec depending on security status.
Imagine if you will that Concord has a system wide targeting inhibitor in place. The strength of the inhibitor is reflected by the system security.
So for example someone trying to target someone in 1.0 System has a targeting speed penalty of 1000%, at 0.9 system 750% and so forth.
This gives people in high sec a chance to get away from such griefers, however there are some exceptions.
In the case of war decced targets, there is no penalty - lets say Concord hands over to both parties the need frequency modulation thingamajig to break through their target inhibitor field and target as normal.
comment?
The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology |
Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.03.13 06:27:00 -
[2]
or you could fit a tank to your ships and pay attention to the thing that says you aren't safe when you undock
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Raven Timoshenko
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Posted - 2008.03.13 06:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin or you could fit a tank to your ships and pay attention to the thing that says you aren't safe when you undock
Umm firstly how helpful is a tank on a hauler against a suicide ganker, seriously? and what pray tell is your bit about paying attention to the things that says you are unsafe, unless you are referring to being target locked, i.e when its too late? The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology |
Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin or you could fit a tank to your ships and pay attention to the thing that says you aren't safe when you undock
Umm firstly how helpful is a tank on a hauler against a suicide ganker, seriously? and what pray tell is your bit about paying attention to the things that says you are unsafe, unless you are referring to being target locked, i.e when its too late?
the tutorial explains that you are not safe anywhere outside of the station. You are proposing that you are 100% safe outside of the station as long as you are in an npc corp
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Raven Timoshenko
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
the tutorial explains that you are not safe anywhere outside of the station. You are proposing that you are 100% safe outside of the station as long as you are in an npc corp
Umm, lets see, what does being in an NPC corp,or a Player corp have to do with suicide ganking in high sec? Where incidentally does it say you are 100% safe? the targetting inhibitor increases the time taken to target, so if you are AFK outside you can still be targeted and destroyed, it just takes longer to get a target lock, it does not stop you from actually achieving a lock. The point is to allow peeps in high sec especially in laggy systems like Jita to atleast have a chance of getting away from a griefer, not give them bullet proof portection. The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology |
Xindi Kraid
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:37:00 -
[6]
Tip #2: Stay away from Jita
Not only is the lag better in other systems but you are less likeley to be ganked --Bird of Prey: Forum God
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.03.13 09:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 13/03/2008 09:21:17 Then stay out of the laggy systems.
Thats like saying I tried to fly through a star since it was easier than going around it but my ship melted place a concord enforced Refrigeration system so I can fly through stars and save time
also there is always a chance to get away
1.fly a blockade runner 2.fit stabs 3.don't autopilot
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Riame
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Posted - 2008.03.13 15:00:00 -
[8]
People ought to be replying to this a bit more seriously:
1) You are not safe in EvE and as such, there should not be a way to penalize those who wish to break the law and attack people in empire. Those people are called pirates. Deal with it. 2) However, suicide gankers should not be able to conduct their business via alt production. A 5 man group putting out kestrel spamming missile alts does not for a reasonable counter to empire rules make!
So you propose a delay to targetting time in empire, I think this is actually a pretty reasonable device. It means if your sitting around not paying attention (read, Autopiloting or MacroMining) then you can get ganked. It also means if your being speedy or have a modest tank fit, most people won't be able to lock you in time. I also believe CONCORD needs to be rewritten though, as there are far to many strategies for taking advantage of this ineffectual police force.
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Raven Timoshenko
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Posted - 2008.03.13 15:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Riame People ought to be replying to this a bit more seriously:
1) You are not safe in EvE and as such, there should not be a way to penalize those who wish to break the law and attack people in empire. Those people are called pirates. Deal with it. 2) However, suicide gankers should not be able to conduct their business via alt production. A 5 man group putting out kestrel spamming missile alts does not for a reasonable counter to empire rules make!
So you propose a delay to targetting time in empire, I think this is actually a pretty reasonable device. It means if your sitting around not paying attention (read, Autopiloting or MacroMining) then you can get ganked. It also means if your being speedy or have a modest tank fit, most people won't be able to lock you in time. I also believe CONCORD needs to be rewritten though, as there are far to many strategies for taking advantage of this ineffectual police force.
Thats precisely what I mean, suicide gankers are not part of gameplay, they are an exploit, using a combination of the in-game lag, concord response and cheap alts to grief players in high sec.
Quote: Thats like saying I tried to fly through a star since it was easier than going around it but my ship melted place a concord enforced Refrigeration system so I can fly through stars and save time
The idea that you should not enter systems because they are laggy is not worth a response, but I will anyway, basically what you are saying I should limit where I can go because of an Out-of-game issue from the server side? How about logging in the middle of combat then? If people can complain about log off in combat, why should not people ask for a better defense against suicide gankers?
The Great Game System Shock 2 and Mining, Hacking and Archeology |
Kiki Arnolds
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:02:00 -
[10]
I've never lost a hauler in highsec (yet) but I'm paranoid enough that I will never autopilot a hauler with cargo on it, and anything over a certain price I will transport on a buffer or speed tanked combat ship... While it is true that a well prepared suicide gank could kill my cargo expanded shield tanked battleship, that same group could pop a freighter which would almost certainly be more profitable, I suspect most don't even check the battleships that aren't heavily used for missioning... ē¦ |
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Marcus TheMartin
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko
The idea that you should not enter systems because they are laggy is not worth a response, but I will anyway, basically what you are saying I should limit where I can go because of an Out-of-game issue from the server side? How about logging in the middle of combat then? If people can complain about log off in combat, why should not people ask for a better defense against suicide gankers?
Why don't you fit a tank or bring an escort with your ships? You should not got to a place that you know is laggy then complain that you died of lag or maybe you were just flying while intoxicated.
But what use is a tank against kamikaze pilots!? Well it means that it requires more fire power to take you out, which means it requires more ships to do it making the isk spent vs isk potential threshold shorten.
Or you could fit some agility mods so you can warp faster.
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Eleana Tomelac
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:56:00 -
[12]
It's very common for suicide gankers to have just the firepower needed to shoot your ship. I had industrials survive suicide gankers because I filled the med slots with shield extenders...
It will never survive a large scale gank, even a freighter can be suicided.
If you look for more security, train for T2 industrials, you can tank those things for real. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Jason Travers
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Posted - 2008.03.13 19:30:00 -
[13]
Well, it doesnĘt do any good to suggest any type of improvement to highsec for those of us that live there. This is because the largest majority of the people that use the boards are in fact PVPers. Like in any business the only things that get any real attention paid to them are the ones that are the most vocal. In the case of EVE it is the PVP community. Though they make up the minority of the actual players they are the most active and vocal majority. From a business standpoint, and yes EVE is a business that makes money to pay the people they employ, the issues that get the most attention are those that the majority of complaints are centered around. Thus unless you are a PVPer or suggest an improvement to make it easier for PVP/role players (ore thieves) you are the minority on the board.
This is where the typical cultural society takes effect as the ones that you pose a threat to (PVPers) in a possibility of getting a change to their current lifestyle will retaliate with what ever they can think of. Most commonly go play WOW or miss kitty or what ever just look at other threads they are like broken records.
Currently Eve is the only mmo of its kind on the market. One day it too will go away as in time all mmoĘs do. I think the demise of eve will be when another company brings online another MMO similar to EVE but has greater restrictions to their more secure space protecting their carebear (moneymaking) population. This will in fact attract the highsec community of EVE to them. By the time CCP gets a clue as to what is happening the Quiet community (carebears) will has a high animosity toward CCP that they will migrate to the new MMO and in some cases for spite. All this would be a major loss to the revenue for CCP; this loss of revenue will cause an increase in monthly premiums.
But until then both you and I will continue to pay and play and put up with BS we agreed to and way things are done until a new MMO come out like eve. On they day I will try it and if I like it better IĘll be gone so fast it will cause a massive black hole in the EVE galaxy. And no you PVPers cannot have my stuff because it will get sucked into the black hole.
Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :( |
Xindi Kraid
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Posted - 2008.03.13 19:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko
The idea that you should not enter systems because they are laggy is not worth a response, but I will anyway, basically what you are saying I should limit where I can go because of an Out-of-game issue from the server side? How about logging in the middle of combat then? If people can complain about log off in combat, why should not people ask for a better defense against suicide gankers?
The reason Jita is laggy is beacues EVERYONE goes there. In order to get rid of the lag caused by havving hundreds of people in the system at a time, some doing missions, would require them to assign half of the server cluster to the one system.
It is not CCP's fault the system is laggy. Its the foault of the thousands of people who go there every day. Stop asking for CCP to fix the problem you have caused. Instead be part of the solution and find a different system --Bird of Prey: Forum God
Caveat Emptor Caveat Venditor CAVEAT |
Endless Subversion
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Posted - 2008.03.13 20:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jason Travers Complaints
Try to take this in the good faith it's meant.
Eve is desgined to be a PvP game, the devs regularly confirm this point. Suicide ganking is a supported game mechanic and pirating is a supported career choice. Self Destruct & LogOffs |
Jason Travers
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:57:00 -
[16]
And I agree with you sub. But using it as an excuse not to fix real issues and exploits isnĘt good customer service. Just one example would be using a newbie ship to draw Concord to another belt wile you gank someone in a weaker ship knowing it is going to take concord approximately 2 minutes to respond and allows them to go sit in a station for 15 minutes and do it all over or get full insurance on their ship is an exploit. And when a suggestion to balance it out with a suggestion is met with fierce hostility from the PVP community because it might actually make them have to put forth some real consequences or a way for the highersec person to have a chance to actually survive is shot down.
I know EvE is a PVP based game but it has also grown from it original visioning. This is something that the average PVPer refuses to even try to understand. Even the deves will tell you it isnĘt a totally PVP game, its more of a sand box. But as I had stated before, if they donĘt start paying attention to issues such as this, when another MMO like eve comes out and actually does look at the mechanics of the game and resolves issues they are going to lose their largest player base.
We all know that highsec isnĘt suppose to be totally save but it should not have to be treated as if you were trying to live in lowsec either. If that was the case then they need to get rid of Concord altogether.
Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :( |
Celot
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Posted - 2008.03.13 22:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Celot on 13/03/2008 22:23:23 start taking any steps at all to protect your cargo problem solved
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Ezekiel Sulastin
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Posted - 2008.03.14 00:11:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 14/03/2008 00:13:07 The production of cheap alts to pull it off is probably the only severe problem with suicide ganking - but then that opens up the debate on the validity of alts in general :)
Taking an escort in high-sec is a ******** thing to say. In a suicide gank, the escort has time to do NOTHING, unless it's a commandship sitting on grid to give an HP boost or some random NPC corp alt that gets CONCORD at every gate. This is a plain hauler we're talking about, not a freighter which makes significant gains from being webbed at each gate. You all DO realize that a suicide gank has to take place within one or two volleys of the firing ship, right? No amount of hisec escort in the world can pop an enemy after aggression quick enough to matter.
Your best bets to avoid the gank are to buffer-tank your ship, forget about autopilot unless you're carrying goods that are cheap relative to your effective HP, and train t2 haulers ASAP. It's exceedingly hard to lock down a blockade runner, and the deepspace transports, although slow, can take a lot of punishment.
Oh, and ignore all the dudes telling you to suck it down. It's better for your mental health - they won't stop telling you to stfu until they have an option on the right-click menu to instapop you wherever you are ;) ---- WTB Armor Nerf Hardener II, 10^100 isk OBO |
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