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TheVad
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:47:00 -
[1]
All,
As Eve matures and we have more secondary services being used and desired (like Fury, Ebank, the stock markets, private loan companies, IPO's, etc.) I believe there is a strong need for an Eve Credit Bureau (now coined ECredit).
The mission of the ECredit bureau is to establish individual and corporation credit histories in a format that can be scored, tracked, and delivered to anyone requesting a credit report on an individual or corporation. This will then allow people to establish good credit (with an independent Bureau) and enable companies to use the ECredit's services and information to evaluate someoneÆs credit worthiness.
Companies and individuals can of course decide to participate (or not), but what this bureau is all about is helping the eve community establish a better way to evaluate someoneÆs credit worthiness with higher confidence.
To this end I am in the process of working out the logistics and software support to launch ECredit. Any company interested in hearing more about the initial BureauÆs services can contact ECredit in game. I especially would like to get in contact with the CEOÆs of the 3 major banks and other loan institutions. I have access to Ventrillo Server or can come to yours as well. Teamspeak is fine to.
This service really has to be independent of any bank or financial institution to ensure unbiased scoring and reporting of the information as well confidentially of the data. The establishment of this bureau is just starting and we need to involve the major financial institutions in working out some of the logistics and processes for consolidating credit related information since a good majority of the data will come from these institutions initially. A detailed roadmap is being worked on and will soon be forthcoming.
To ensure ECredit is operating in an ethical manor, I will be proposing that ECredit be audited at random by one or more independent 3rd parties. This will ensure that ECredit is really serving the best interests of the community and providing the services and value of its mission statement with integrity.
I am interested in bringing on 1-2 individuals to help out with establishing the bureau. I would like to find someone who has experience designing and maintaining a web site. I also need someone who has database and financial application experience to get the core functionality of this business off the ground. We may go with a COTS product if there is one that suits our needs. If these individuals have actual experience in the credit industry, that would be a plus. Finally, these individuals will be appropriately compensated and have a stake in ECredit as founding members. Please contact ECredit if you wish to apply.
My main character, TheVad, has been around since early 2005.
ECredit
CEO ECredit Bureau
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.03.13 07:51:00 -
[2]
Who are you?
Also, have you even researched on this? As far as im aware, theres already something in progress by trustworthy people.
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Kwint Sommer
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:00:00 -
[3]
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EBANK Raffle
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:09:00 -
[4]
I suggest you contact Daeva Vios ingame. He is working on something like this now and it 'may' be better to look into a co-op. Anyway, toss some ideas around each other and see what you come up with.
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ECredit
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Posted - 2008.03.13 08:25:00 -
[5]
Edited by: ECredit on 13/03/2008 08:28:01
Edited by: ECredit on 13/03/2008 08:27:22
 Originally by: LaVista Vista
Who are you?
Also, have you even researched on this? As far as im aware, theres already something in progress by trustworthy people.
Good questions. Actually I have done quiet a bit of research. I also have been talking to Hexx over the past week or so to understand exactly what he is working on. The Fiscal and Monetary policy initiative he is working on is somewhat of a different animal. The governance over IPOÆs is also different and more in line with setting agreeable standards for POÆs over a certain size vs. credit scores.
A single bank unfortunately can not provide the service I am proposing for the reasons I mentioned in my post about conflict of interests. Other financial institutions would be reluctant to provide sensitive data/information in which a competitor can use that information to their advantage. If you decided to use only your own data (for example Ebanks) that potentially will not give you a full picture of someoneÆs credit history especially if they burned someone else or another bank. I assume a financial institution would want to make a decision based on a personÆs full credit history (which is reflected by any loan or credit they have participated in the past with any financial institution) and not just thier own?
If there is another independent person already establishing this, please let me know because I havenÆt heard of him. I rather collaborate and help them achieve the end state which should be cutting down on fraud and to provide lenders with a credit rating to help them determine a person/corporationÆs credit worthiness.
I have been a member of Metalworks, a well established ship construction corp, for many years now. I also like to point out I am only dealing with credit related data, not fisical data.
I have plenty of profesisonal references I can provide the CEO's of the large banks with. I too would have the same concern as you since I have not posted super actively on these boards.
ECredit
CEO Ecredit Bureau
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.03.13 12:23:00 -
[6]
Question:
Why would anyone on the MD forum trust you.
You have had 8 posts since May 2007, and 7 of those have been purchasing bonds or in auctions. You haven't ever posted in any posts about business/bonds/IPO's/ideas... etc.
You have ZERO reputation/history/credit or whatever else is required to be able to pull this off.
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Rho'varo
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Posted - 2008.03.13 12:23:00 -
[7]
See this post for Daeva Vios's post about a "New Eden Credit Bureau", currently on the third page of the very forum you are currently reading.
You might want to try related terms on eve-search.com as well, since it might well have been discussed before that, even.
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TheVad
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Posted - 2008.03.13 15:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: cosmoray
Question:
Why would anyone on the MD forum trust you.
You have had 8 posts since May 2007, and 7 of those have been purchasing bonds or in auctions. You haven't ever posted in any posts about business/bonds/IPO's/ideas... etc.
You have ZERO reputation/history/credit or whatever else is required to be able to pull this off.
You are 100% correct in that I do not have a very public established reputation within EVE. However I do have quiet a bit of experience. Just because I havenÆt published on the forums doesnÆt mean I do not have over 10+ years of real life experience.
I speak with C+ executiveÆs everyday with corporations like Fannie Mae and Nationwide around IT transformation and Quality consulting. IÆm responsible for the growth revenue and management of 40+ consultants within a major consulting firm supporting our financial business line. Whether the CEOÆs think I have enough experience to pull this off is up to them. These are the people I need to speak with and convince that I have the right skill set and integrity to accomplish this.
I am also a gamer and wanted to volunteer some of my time to give back to the Eve community. I support the skills and talents the game is developing within people who otherwise would not have this kind of exposure to running a business or corporation.
The main reason for the public post vs. going to the CEOÆs privately was to find out who else is working on something along these lines so I can work with them in a collaborative manner at getting this off the ground. I was also to let people know that someone is going to work on this needed service/space.
I appreciate the responses from everyone, especially those who gave me names of those who are already working on something like this so that I can contact them. With my limited time I will be focusing on the execution and collaboration of getting a working model up and running.
Thanks!
ECredit
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Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2008.03.13 18:09:00 -
[9]
I have sent you an EVEmail regarding this subject.
Please get back to me as soon as you are able.
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Kwint Sommer
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Posted - 2008.03.13 19:58:00 -
[10]
You're completely unknown and didn't do even the most trivial of research (you didn't read the big thread on credit reporting on page 3) and yet you expect us to trust you to assign a rating to everyone here?
FACEPALM
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.13 20:41:00 -
[11]
You don't care enough about the market to post here regularly, so frankly, you have no chance of having this work.
I'm sick of no-name people trying to post elaborate plans, ipos, bonds, etc expecting anyone here to care. If you truly give a crap you'd be posting on these forums regularly and expressing your viewpoint.
After 2-3 months of sharing your wisdom with us here perhaps you can try again, until then, don't waste our time.
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:22:00 -
[12]
My advice;
Take the feedback (what you can use of it) and go forward on trying to execute this. Too often I see people caught up in "consensus paralysis" where they feel they can't do something if enough people don't agree with them.
Personally, I've sometimes sought consensus and sometimes not. Generally it's worked out well, and if nothing else you learn some things along the way.
That said, don't be like Ufl where he went ahead with his plans, flamed anyone who criticized him, and took critical feedback very poorly.
As always, I won't endorse anything or anyone (except for EBANK!  ) but I will always try to provide advice for people who try to start up these kinds of things.
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Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Robacz
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:29:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Robacz on 13/03/2008 21:29:16
Well if I can speak for myself, I consider above two posts (EDIT: Hexxx's post wasnt there when I was writing it) much greater waste of time than OP.  I don't think people have to spam this forum for months to post ideas and realize them.
Anyways, I don't think any kind of credit rating can ever work in Eve, but maybe thats just me, I don't trust anyone. 
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Hexxx
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Robacz
Edited by: Robacz on 13/03/2008 21:29:16
Well if I can speak for myself, I consider above two posts (EDIT: Hexxx's post wasnt there when I was writing it) much greater waste of time than OP. I don't think people have to spam this forum for months to post ideas and realize them.
Anyways, I don't think any kind of credit rating can ever work in Eve, but maybe thats just me, I don't trust anyone.
Alot of people say Banks can't work in EVE either
I'm cautiously optimistic; there are sooooo many challenges in starting services outside of EVE (credit service, POS insurance, banks, etc) that most efforts will fail horribly...painfully horribly....but I'm always rooting for someone to survive the birthing pains and keep something going.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Robacz
I don't think people have to spam this forum for months to post ideas and realize them.
We disagree. Show me three people who's first post on this forum was for some massive project that actually followed through with it to this day.
I personally can't think of one. But maybe I'm just not thinking clearly.
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Robacz
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Posted - 2008.03.13 21:55:00 -
[16]
We, his majesty Shadarle?
As for startups from previously unkwnown people..... one of stock exchanges perhaps?
It surely helps when person posting some idea is already known, but it is not required. I presonally do not associate trust with number of posts. It is quite dangerous. Like someone said before, next big scam will be someone from the commmunity.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.03.13 22:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Robacz
We, his majesty Shadarle?
Bowing down to kiss my feet is not inappropriate in this instance.
Unless of course I was merely saying we because the two of us disagree, thus we disagree. Get it, "we disagree".
But my feet could definately use some kissing.
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Rho'varo
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Posted - 2008.03.13 22:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shadarle
Show me three people who's first post on this forum was for some massive project that actually followed through with it to this day.
I personally can't think of one. But maybe I'm just not thinking clearly.
My impression also is that there are many more failed and lapsed projects than successful ones, but all projects have to start somewhere, and I think the OP here has made a reasonable first step.
The OP is clear that he does not expect to set up something on his own, and he is clear that this project would rely on the operational participation of others. I think it's reasonable to hope that the real-world experience of the OP can be combined with (i) the established in-game commitment and knowledge of others and (ii) the technical expertise of yet others in a manner that takes advantage of all of these elements.
While an established presence in MD would be helpful, and ignorance of Daeva Vios's recent thread suggests insufficient research on past attempts to offer similar services, I see neither of these deficiencies as critical blows to the project as a whole.
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.03.14 09:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Robacz
We, his majesty Shadarle?
As for startups from previously unkwnown people..... one of stock exchanges perhaps?
It surely helps when person posting some idea is already known, but it is not required. I presonally do not associate trust with number of posts. It is quite dangerous. Like someone said before, next big scam will be someone from the commmunity.
Post count on MD does not equal case in point. Recent proof of this is Ufl who earned the contempt of virtually all of MD yet posted regularly and YouGotRipped who posts more frequently than quite of a few of the regulars yet is a joke and can't even get a secured loan.
We trust those who post here for months not because they have a high post count but because over those months they have consistently shown that they are knowledgeable and that they care about the market, not to mention the insights it offers into their personality.
A scammer does not invest hundreds of hours and months into posting on this forum, nor does he care enough about MD to become deeply knowledgeable about it. Thus, those who spend months posting are trusted, with the obvious exceptions listed above. People like YouGotRipped can be generalized as trolls who stick around not because they find it profitable (as the scammer does) but because they enjoy causing arguing, griefing and generally causing strife. Ufl is too ambiguous to fit this model, I'm really not sure how to explain his actions.
Anyways, the point is that posting here regularly shows that you're serious and the content of your posts shows but the extent of your knowledge/abilities and, to a certain extent, the content of your character.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.03.14 09:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rho'varo
While an established presence in MD would be helpful, and ignorance of Daeva Vios's recent thread suggests insufficient research on past attempts to offer similar services, I see neither of these deficiencies as critical blows to the project as a whole.
You're quite right, neither are necessary for the project to succeed. They are however strong indicators that the project will not succeed.
By analogy, if you put a monkey in front of a typewriter and compel it to type. The fact that the creature doing the typing is not Shakespeare nor can it even comprehend Shakespeare does not mean that it cannot produce a work of Shakespeare. It does however strongly indicate that it will not be successful.
Dear OP, I hope you succeed. But by the same token I've been hoping I can make He3-He3 fusion work all term* and as much as I hope it works out I kind of doubt I'm going to be getting a Noble Prize anytime soon. Good luck though.
PS At this time I have no intention of releasing my full financial data to you and any bank that releases my financial data to people I've never heard of will not be getting my business.
*To those of you wondering why He3-He3 fusion doesn't work, it's the damn brehmstralung radiation. Because it's so high, the reaction cannot reach ignition while in thermal equilibrium. I've been looking at some ways of doing it outside of thermal equilibrium, like with an electrostatic well, but so far no Nobel Prize. 
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Robacz
Essence Trade
Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.03.14 09:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Post count on MD does not equal case in point. Recent proof of this is Ufl who earned the contempt of virtually all of MD yet posted regularly and YouGotRipped who posts more frequently than quite of a few of the regulars yet is a joke and can't even get a secured loan.
He would get it if his expectations were realistic.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
We trust those who post here for months not because they have a high post count but because over those months they have consistently shown that they are knowledgeable and that they care about the market, not to mention the insights it offers into their personality.
We as you and Shadarle? You both seem to play some role of MD forum police, or speakers of MD, but you are neither of that.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
A scammer does not invest hundreds of hours and months into posting on this forum, nor does he care enough about MD to become deeply knowledgeable about it. Thus, those who spend months posting are trusted, with the obvious exceptions listed above.
This is very dangerous assumption and will most likely cost you a lot of ISK one day.
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Anyways, the point is that posting here regularly shows that you're serious and the content of your posts shows but the extent of your knowledge/abilities and, to a certain extent, the content of your character.
I disagree, it only shows what poster want it to show. Smart scammer would be well aware of this.
As I pointed out in reply to Shadarle, one of pillars of current Eve financial market was started by character with no history.
Apologies to OP for this derail, I will STFU now.
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.03.14 09:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Robacz
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Post count on MD does not equal case in point. Recent proof of this is Ufl who earned the contempt of virtually all of MD yet posted regularly and YouGotRipped who posts more frequently than quite of a few of the regulars yet is a joke and can't even get a secured loan.
He would get it if his expectations were realistic.
I'm confused, who's apologist are you? TheVad's or YouGotRipped's?
Originally by: Robacz
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
A scammer does not invest hundreds of hours and months into posting on this forum, nor does he care enough about MD to become deeply knowledgeable about it. Thus, those who spend months posting are trusted, with the obvious exceptions listed above.
This is very dangerous assumption and will most likely cost you a lot of ISK one day.
It is a simple cost benefit analysis. Someone who spends hundreds of hours on here over months and demonstrates that they have a significant understanding of the sorts of things discussed on MD could have used that time over those months to make billions. There are essentially (one must always generalize to make any sort of reasonable argument) two types of scammers: those looking for easy ISK and the troll. The guy looking for easy ISK will not find months of research, reading and posting easy, not be any means and he will go elsewhere when his this-is-my-first-post-give-me-billions venture fails. The troll (aka. YouGotRipped) will stick around and attempts to scam only as part of a broader attempt to cause chaos and a general love of watching people ***** and argue. This type passes the post-count test but the content of his post,s taken over a long interval, invariably shows his true character.
If you want to be cynical, eventually everyone lies, lets you down and generally fails to live up to the trust you have placed in them, perhaps this is true of ourselves most of all. This is the nature of man and that won't be changing anytime soon but that is not what we're debating. Now, if you'll excuse me, Rudi and I just spent the last 8 hours blundering and hand-waving our way through some complex system analysis and I have all of 3 hours left for sleep before my first class.... On an even more sad note, I'm completely out of Scotch.  I don't know if I've said this of MIT before but IHTFP!
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.03.14 11:38:00 -
[23]
I would like to see TheVad get together with Daevo and do some brainstorming. It's basically how the EBANK board was formed. We found likeminded individuals with similar goals and put them together into a package (along with a couple of disbelievers to ensure the project ran smooth).
Same deal could be said for you guys. I don't know TheVad other than a post he made on our EBANK forums and an email sent to me (both of which were of outstanding quality). Otherwise TheVad isn't someone I know however he does show potential in his posts and I hope he harnesses this and spends some time getting to know the public and letting the public get to know him.
If the two points of contact I have had with Vad are replicated and consistent I do predict a very nice markets future for him.
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Salisuka
Intex Mechanics
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Posted - 2008.03.14 11:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TheVad
I speak with C+ executiveÆs everyday with corporations like Fannie Mae and Nationwide around IT transformation & Quality consulting. IÆm responsible for the growth, revenue and management of 40+ consultants within a major consulting firm supporting our financial business line. Whether the CEOÆs think I have enough experience to pull this off is up to them. These are the people I need to speak with and convince that I have the right skill set and integrity to lead this initiative.
Please don't take this as a flame but this is a game.
I don't know you and you don't know me. I believe you when you say you're qualified to run what you propose but unlike the real world there is no way for others to be certain of it. What everyone is suggesting (really? suggesting?) is that you introduce yourself slowly into this forum, get with its program, pace etc.
Just like you have built a reputation in what you do in the real world, you kinda need to do the same here.
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:24:00 -
[25]
Edited by: TheVad on 14/03/2008 15:24:59
Originally by: Salisuka
[
Please don't take this as a flame but this is a game.
I don't know you and you don't know me. I believe you when you say you're qualified to run what you propose but unlike the real world there is no way for others to be certain of it. What everyone is suggesting (really? suggesting?) is that you introduce yourself slowly into this forum, get with its program, pace etc.
Just like you have built a reputation in what you do in the real world, you kinda need to do the same here.
Can someone give me the names of 1 or 2 people who are so well respected in this community that if they vouched for me it would end the whole ôreputation/qualified argumentö?
TheVad
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
I would like to see TheVad get together with Daevo and do some brainstorming. It's basically how the EBANK board was formed. We found likeminded individuals with similar goals and put them together into a package (along with a couple of disbelievers to ensure the project ran smooth).
We are talking and will see what happens.
TheVad
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cosmoray
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:26:00 -
[27]
Pretty dificult to get a "well respected name" to vouch for you. You have to earn reputation to get vouched for.
Good luck though
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Kwint Sommer
Lothian Quay Industries
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:30:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 14/03/2008 15:31:29
Originally by: TheVad
Can someone give me the names of 1 or 2 people who are so well respected in this community that if they vouched for me it would end the whole ôreputation/qualified argumentö?
TheVad
A few that come to mind: (by no means complete, please don't hate me for not putting you on there)
LaVistas Vista
Ricdic
Hexxx
Shadarle
If one of those guys put his reputation on the line for you it would pretty much clear that up. Of course they've all already posted here, mostly expressing concern. Ricdic said a few nice words but he also doesn't seem to know you....
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Cogwheel
Legio Eterna
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cogwheel on 14/03/2008 15:42:36
Originally by: Rho'varo
See this post for Daeva Vios's post about a "New Eden Credit Bureau", currently on the third page of the very forum you are currently reading.
You might want to try related terms on eve-search.com as well, since it might well have been discussed before that, even.
Don't forget this one too! 
TheVad: Did you get in touch with Daeva?
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TheVad
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
Same deal could be said for you guys. I don't know TheVad other than a post he made on our EBANK forums and an email sent to me (both of which were of outstanding quality). Otherwise TheVad isn't someone I know however he does show potential in his posts and I hope he harnesses this and spends some time getting to know the public and letting the public get to know him.
The ECredit project team is working on a PPT/PRF document which will explain the approach we want to take and how we are going to address the people, process, and tools to establish the ECredit website and services. Based on the outcome of my discussions with Davea direction may or may not change.
We then will attempt to socialize this with the 3 major banks. Feedback given will then be incorporated and we will publish the strategy and action plan to the community so they can get an idea of what were doing and the timelines around this.
The Current Project Team consists of
- Project Manager: TheVad
- Loan & Credit Domain Expert/Programmer: Sammottram
We are sill looking for a good web designer to join the team. They will be responsible for creating & maintaining the website for ECredit.
TheVad
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