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Cryodrus
nXo Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2012.02.21 09:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well that, what computer would take to move the eve at full settings in this kind of battles?, and also to record with fraps while... and without taking away the camera, close from your ship...
then?
nXo's Youtube Channel |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
91
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 09:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
A good one.
How many eve lemmings do you really want in a single battle? |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1338
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Posted - 2012.02.21 10:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Disclaimer : I know nothing ..
Just curious if it would be possible just to "stream download" all data in such battle .. and then render it afterwards ..
Finall result would be full interactive enviroment in 3D with the battle going on .. question is what kind of computer would handle it
So just scratch that.. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
400
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Posted - 2012.02.21 10:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:How many eve lemmings do you really want in a single battle? As many as we can get to jump into the gate camp. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
14
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Posted - 2012.02.21 11:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cryodrus wrote:Well that, what computer would take to move the eve at full settings in this kind of battles?, and also to record with fraps while... and without taking away the camera, close from your ship... then? A better question is, "What kind of server does it take to first properly relay said very hardware stressful battle to 2000+ international players so their computers can sync and render such a scene?"
As soon as this becomes feasible for the servers, maybe CCP can work on the client side hardware to software interaction so consumer computers can handle it.
My gaming PC isn't "state of the art" so to say (I couldn't justify paying more than $2000 just to play around in Eve and random first person shooters from time to time) but it's pretty damn good, and a 2000 man battle would overwhelm my system easily. I'm a computer systems engineer and build computers pretty much all types of user purchase, from home users to corporate office machines and I can tell you the game's graphics engine while not the most hardware intensive available wasn't exactly designed from the ground up with 2000 person battles in mind otherwise the game would have been made much differently.
I don't think CCP expected such fights to ever happen as often as they do which is why they just now came up with Time Dilation. "Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother." |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
162
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Posted - 2012.02.21 11:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
A good server?
Edit: Brunmunde Hildegaard beat me to it |
Cryodrus
nXo Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2012.02.21 11:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:"What kind of server does it take to first properly relay said very hardware stressful battle to 2000+ international players so their computers can sync and render such a scene?"
Im not talking about ''server lag'' or how reduce it... in this aspect DiTi do a excellent work Im talking about ''graphic lag'' where the the principal involved element is the power of your computer. And how minimize her impact at minimal possible. nXo's Youtube Channel |
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
14
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Posted - 2012.02.21 11:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cryodrus wrote:Quote:"What kind of server does it take to first properly relay said very hardware stressful battle to 2000+ international players so their computers can sync and render such a scene?" Im not talking about ''server lag'' or how reduce it... in this aspect DiTi do a excellent work Im talking about ''graphic lag'' where the the principal involved element is the power of your computer. And how minimize her impact at minimal possible.
You seem to not understand that in order for there to be any graphical lag, the information first has to reach your machine in a timely fashion, in fact so timely that your hardware cannot render the information being intercepted at a FPS over the interpretation levels of the human eye.
First comes server. Then comes consumer PC. If you want to know what kind of machine you will need to render a 2k person fleet at great fps with Fraps on with no rendering issues well the general answer at this time is: There isn't one. "Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother." |
Vetrox Satria
Canadian Forces Corp
1
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Posted - 2012.02.21 19:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think somehow everyone has missed the point of what the op is trying to say. So I will rephrase it for him.
He wants to know what system requirements would he need to be able to run EVE with all graphics set to high with 2000+ ships having it out with eachother whilst recording with fraps and maintaining a playable framerate (lets say 30)
Im sure that alot of high end desktops would handle this quite easily. My theory being that with 2000 ships in view you would probably be zoomed out a fair distance and at that distance alot of the fancy stuff doesnt get rendered (except shadows....the seem to bring my laptop to its knees no matter how far out i zoom)
More graphics memory would probably be the answer. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1088
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Posted - 2012.02.21 19:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
I currently run a GTX 260 which would probably never render the 2000 ships. I start getting graphical lag somewhere around 50 or so ships on max settings. My new dual SLI GTX 560Ti rig on the other hand...soon...very soon... The issue we all usually have is the server not being able to maintain the data flow of information from said 2000 pilots all at one time. Right now EvE's biggest bottleneck is the servers...I doubt it is even the code even though they are doing great at optimizing and improving the server side client. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
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Gnaw LF
2
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Posted - 2012.02.21 21:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cryodrus wrote:Well that, what computer would take to move the eve at full settings in this kind of battles?, and also to record with fraps while... and without taking away the camera, close from your ship... then?
It does not matter. One of the most interesting things that CCP has to deal with is the ever increasing escalations brought on by the playing member base. No matter what kind of system or improvement CCP can make to the game players will bring more and more pilots into a battle. So if CCP does work out the specs needed for a PC that can handle 2000 pilot battle, the Alliances will eventually bring more then 2000 and so on and so forth. Just look at Time Dilation, last month people were praising it, yesterday it was pushed to the limit with the latest battle up north. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1023
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Posted - 2012.02.21 21:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Disclaimer : I know nothing .. Just curious if it would be possible just to "stream download" all data in such battle .. and then render it afterwards .. Finall result would be full interactive enviroment in 3D with the battle going on .. question is what kind of computer would handle it So just scratch that..
Good sir, some of us have been asking CCP to look into this possibility since the game went gold. You are not alone.
So far they haven't had much time to devote to, or success with, investigating how they would need to go about doing this.
I fondly remember exactly what you describe from the old Xwing and Tie Fighter series of games. You played the file back and could jump to any ship, view it from any angle, choose from a wide variety of camera techiques (similar but more advanced than our current "advanced camera control" set in the client), stop, rewind, etc. as much as you liked.
It would make frapsing EVE battles a dream, and unlock the ability to create detailed storylines throughout a video of a large (or small) engagement the likes of which the EVE community has currently only glimpsed in CCP trailers... and make the creation of those video's childs play in comparison.
I wish the idea could gain more support, but many don't understand what a powerful tool it would be even without the video making aspect as a factor.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
17
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Posted - 2012.02.22 08:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vetrox Satria wrote:I think somehow everyone has missed the point of what the op is trying to say. So I will rephrase it for him.
He wants to know what system requirements would he need to be able to run EVE with all graphics set to high with 2000+ ships having it out with eachother whilst recording with fraps and maintaining a playable framerate (lets say 30)
Im sure that alot of high end desktops would handle this quite easily. My theory being that with 2000 ships in view you would probably be zoomed out a fair distance and at that distance alot of the fancy stuff doesnt get rendered (except shadows....the seem to bring my laptop to its knees no matter how far out i zoom)
More graphics memory would probably be the answer.
No. VRAM/GPU memory is not the answer. It simply isn't feasible for the game's engine for such battles to take place at a high FPS.
I have a very powerful computer. I play everything and anything at massive resolution and ultra details (sometimes I even edit files to push the settings past what they offer in the game menus) and usually have to cap my frame rate with vsync as to not cook my GPUs. Skyrim, Arkham City, L.A. Noire, Battlefield 3, just any game, doesn't matter which, maximum antialiasing/anisotropy/everything. 60 FPS.
Same with Eve. I sit at Jita 4-4 undock with 60 fps even on the busiest of days. Might be what, 600 or 700 ships around, 15 or 20 of which are shooting at eachother. No problem.
However, when you get to the 2000 ships all shooting at eachother at the same time there's tens of thousands of pixel shader calculations going on every millisecond. There's tens of thousands of physics calculations going on when ships fly. It's simply just way too much. Even the fastest of PCs get bogged down because of the overflow of information. Even if the processing cores are not over flooded, memory only has X amount of bandwidth.
People who don't know anything about computers always say the same things. I hear it all the time when I get called to some customer's house to do an upgrade.
"I WANNA PLAY ASSASSINS CREED ON MY PENTIUM 3. CAN'T YA JUST THROW A NICE GRAFIX CARD IN IT?" "WELL I GOT 1 GIGABYTE OF RAM, THATS A LOT ISNT IT?" Nevermind the fact that pretty much everything on a PC has a clock speed, bandwidth limitations, etc etc etc, THE GFX HAS 1GB IT CAN PLAY ERRYTHING LUL.
TLDR; The game wasn't exactly built specifically for 2000 man battles therefore the engine won't efficiently render them regardless of how bad ass your PC is. You might be able to render such a battle with "decent" FPS but it's not going to be pretty. "Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother." |
Tiberius Amzadee
The Omega Sovereign Flux Initiative
7
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Posted - 2012.02.22 08:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
It really depends on where the battle is processed,server-side vs.client-side. In a true sense there's no technology and network support for the general public that can process all that information smoothly and still be affordable. That kind of power is usually reserved for the military and atomic science communities. This game potential is that cutting edge man. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
894
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 08:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Brunmunde Hildegaard wrote::stuff:
Mostly accurate, and no computer is ever going to make a 2000 man battle run smoothly on any settings but bare minimum. However, I do believe that Supreme Commander proved that extremely detailed rendering and computing is possible in real-time, so long as you have extremely good optimization. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Brunmunde Hildegaard
The Green Machine
17
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Posted - 2012.02.22 08:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Mostly accurate, and no computer is ever going to make a 2000 man battle run smoothly on any settings but bare minimum. However, I do believe that Supreme Commander proved that extremely detailed rendering and computing is possible in real-time, so long as you have extremely good optimization.
Of course massive battles in games are possible to realtime render. Supreme Commander is also a totally different game with a totally different engine, **** a totally different everything. It was designed with enormous battles in mind specifically for that purpose. Sins of a Solar Empire is another good example of a game that was designed with that in mind. Eve was not.
I think CCP was happy back in the day when they heard about the first 50 man battle let alone 100 or 200 or 500. "Sings me a dances of wolfs, who smells fear and slays the coward. Sings me a dances of mans, who smells gold and slays his brother." |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
402
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 09:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
If the engine could do it, I don't think it would take a huge amount of computer power to handle it, however the core engine is 10 years old now. The codebase is outdated to the point where w re-write is needed to bring it up to par.
Also, devs who are not being shackled to proprietary 3rd party technologies when they do write a new engine(*coughcoughnvidiacoughincarnacoughcough*)
Give them time, and hopefully enough money to hire a team who specializes in this, and a couple years after that we should eliminate those issues. Til then, when you upgrade, build around highest settings on the most recent game you play, and when the client can handle it you should be able to as well. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
896
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 09:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:If the engine could do it, I don't think it would take a huge amount of computer power to handle it, however the core engine is 10 years old now. The codebase is outdated to the point where w re-write is needed to bring it up to par.
Also, devs who are not being shackled to proprietary 3rd party technologies when they do write a new engine(*coughcoughnvidiacoughincarnacoughcough*)
Give them time, and hopefully enough money to hire a team who specializes in this, and a couple years after that we should eliminate those issues. Til then, when you upgrade, build around highest settings on the most recent game you play, and when the client can handle it you should be able to as well.
That's such a massive task.
Good luck, CCP codemonkeys, and don't forget to freaking comment! A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Valentyn3
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 09:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
This would have been a slightly less insane idea back before they reintroduced engine trails. Only slightly less insane.
But seriously, as people have said. Chances are they don't have the servers set up to process that much data.
Or maybe they do. I don't know and I'm not going to pretend I have technical knowledge about a game I never worked on.
Either way, the kind of set up you would need to render it would look like a render farm, not a single computer.
I used to be a Blade Runner like you, then I took an android to the knee... |
Vetrox Satria
Canadian Forces Corp
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 18:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Brunmunde Hildegaard wrote:Vetrox Satria wrote:I think somehow everyone has missed the point of what the op is trying to say. So I will rephrase it for him.
He wants to know what system requirements would he need to be able to run EVE with all graphics set to high with 2000+ ships having it out with eachother whilst recording with fraps and maintaining a playable framerate (lets say 30)
Im sure that alot of high end desktops would handle this quite easily. My theory being that with 2000 ships in view you would probably be zoomed out a fair distance and at that distance alot of the fancy stuff doesnt get rendered (except shadows....the seem to bring my laptop to its knees no matter how far out i zoom)
More graphics memory would probably be the answer. No. VRAM/GPU memory is not the answer. It simply isn't feasible for the game's engine for such battles to take place at a high FPS. I have a very powerful computer. I play everything and anything at massive resolution and ultra details (sometimes I even edit files to push the settings past what they offer in the game menus) and usually have to cap my frame rate with vsync as to not cook my GPUs. Skyrim, Arkham City, L.A. Noire, Battlefield 3, just any game, doesn't matter which, maximum antialiasing/anisotropy/everything. 60 FPS. Same with Eve. I sit at Jita 4-4 undock with 60 fps even on the busiest of days. Might be what, 600 or 700 ships around, 15 or 20 of which are shooting at eachother. No problem. However, when you get to the 2000 ships all shooting at eachother at the same time there's tens of thousands of pixel shader calculations going on every millisecond. There's tens of thousands of physics calculations going on when ships fly. It's simply just way too much. Even the fastest of PCs get bogged down because of the overflow of information. Even if the processing cores are not over flooded, memory only has X amount of bandwidth. People who don't know anything about computers always say the same things. I hear it all the time when I get called to some customer's house to do an upgrade. "I WANNA PLAY ASSASSINS CREED ON MY PENTIUM 3. CAN'T YA JUST THROW A NICE GRAFIX CARD IN IT?" "WELL I GOT 1 GIGABYTE OF RAM, THATS A LOT ISNT IT?" Nevermind the fact that pretty much everything on a PC has a clock speed, bandwidth limitations, etc etc etc, THE GFX HAS 1GB IT CAN PLAY ERRYTHING LUL. TLDR; The game wasn't exactly built specifically for 2000 man battles therefore the engine won't efficiently render them regardless of how bad ass your PC is. You might be able to render such a battle with "decent" FPS but it's not going to be pretty.
Maybe yopur comp just cant handle it.... |
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Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
911
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 18:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP
Put in a battle recorder that saves the information from a fleet fight so that we can re-render it later locally at full FPS with no TiDi effects at any angle we want. The Drake is a Lie |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
407
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Posted - 2012.02.22 22:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:CCP
Put in a battle recorder that saves the information from a fleet fight so that we can re-render it later locally at full FPS with no TiDi effects at any angle we want.
This would just be Fing awesome. The proliferation of user create content on the web from Eve would be huge! Frankly at lot of people want to but don't because of performance issues. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 22:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bitches don't know about my hexadecacore processor. |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
50
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Posted - 2012.02.23 01:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Go to Jita 4-4 at it's busiest point in the day. Double or quadruple the lag. |
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