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t1 setup carried over to t2 AF, Better?

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Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 00:50:00 - [1] OK, I know the title seems a bit confusing so let me clear it up... What I'm asking is whether or not this Experimental Bleeder setup for the Punisher would be as effective, if not more so, in the Vengeance Assault Frigate? If it doesn't translate into better pew pew please give me a reason why as I'd like to discuss this. and.... go. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 01:29:00 - [2] No response? No one has ANYTHING to contribute? That's odd. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.15 04:37:00 - [3] vengeance is a rocket ship...not for lasers
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 04:57:00 - [4] I'm not talking about using lasers, if you bothered to even SKIM what the link said you'd see that it calls for autocannons. I would use rockets but I have low skills in rockets/missiles, so I'm forced (for now) to use T2 AC's. Maybe next time try to be helpful instead of providing stupid, one sentence remarks. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Batelle HOMELESS. Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.15 05:27:00 - [5] vengeance is a rocket ship. If you don't have good rocket skills, fly something else. Rockets would work too, since they don't use cap either.
Katrina Coreli No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.03.15 08:34:00 - [6] You are being abrasive so let me try and explain Autos are used on the punisher because they are capless Given that the Vengeance has a bonus to capless weapons, rockets, theres no reason not to use them
pyyKtas Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:45:00 - [7] Correct if im wrong, but isnt bleeder setup for keeping you out of webrange? Anyways well you can use either rockets or ACs, depending on your skills, but considering veng has dmg bonus to rockets and its as well capless, might stick to rockets. I dont understand why you would need 2 x cap relays. With decent skils you can run scram+repairer II for quite some time. I'd try to swtich both cap relays for adaptive plating II and maybe EANM. If that doesnt fit see the benefits of plating/EANM against 200 plate.
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:11:00 - [8] Autocannons make no sense on a ship with plenty of grid and a rocket damage bonus. Why would you want to use this instead of a Jaguar or Wolf? Does the Vengeance even have four turret hardpoints?
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 17:49:00 - [9] The Vengeance has 3 turret hardpoints, but the idea with this setup is to use a small nos to remain cap stable, so even if I used rockets, I'd sill only be able to use 3 of the 4 available launcher hardpoints. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:05:00 - [10] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 15/03/2008 18:05:33 Originally by: Grahv Exitus The Vengeance has 3 turret hardpoints, but the idea with this setup is to use a small nos to remain cap stable, so even if I used rockets, I'd sill only be able to use 3 of the 4 available launcher hardpoints. What is your End objective? If you give us how you want to use your ship and in what way, we can help. Best thing to do is forget any previous setup and just work out what you want your ship to do. I.E A Cap stable vengence setup? What is it that you plan to do that requires a cap stable setup? A setup that relised on enemy cap to sustain via nos? What do you plan do do that requires nos? A Setup to empty enemy cap? Sential would be better I guess. But again, we dont know what you want to do. The objective is to hang a picture and thus needs a hole. You are asking us what drill is best, but we dont know what type of drill to reccomend since you have not told us what you want to do. -- Billion Isk Mission

Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 18:13:57 Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 18:12:05 Basically , I want the same thing that the linked setup provides, i.e. A cap stable way to outlast an enemy's tank without them being able to break my own, even if they're using Nos. I 'd also like to be able to pump out decent damage but as long as I can eventually kill whoever it is I have locked down I'll be happy. Quote: Purpose: This 'experimental bleeder' design ship is primarily meant to last longer than the target ship's capacitor or tank while dealing back moderate amounts of damage that slowly pick away at the target according to the type of damage best suited against the their tank, bleeding the victim of both it's defence and capacitor. Primarily meant for engagements against cruiser-class ships and higher, it can tank multiple heavy missiles and still keep transversal velocity high enough to evade almost all cruiser-class gunfire, even while webbed. This can be extended to the bleeder design becoming the tackler due to it's capacitor-based defence. It's the setup that everyone hates me for because it seems impractical, but remains one of the toughest frigate setups for those that have tried it. 25% armor resistances across the board once you get frigate V ftw. The experimental design is slightly more resistant than the previous design against frigate/destroy gunfire without losing it's potency against cruiser-class and higher. ^^This is what I'm going for, but using the Vengeance instead of the Punisher. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Sionide Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:32:00 - [12] Edited by: Sionide on 15/03/2008 18:36:48 Originally by: Grahv Exitus Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 18:13:57 Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 18:12:05 Basically , I want the same thing that the linked setup provides, i.e. A cap stable way to outlast an enemy's tank without them being able to break my own, even if they're using Nos. I 'd also like to be able to pump out decent damage but as long as I can eventually kill whoever it is I have locked down I'll be happy. Quote: Purpose: This 'experimental bleeder' design ship is primarily meant to last longer than the target ship's capacitor or tank while dealing back moderate amounts of damage that slowly pick away at the target according to the type of damage best suited against the their tank, bleeding the victim of both it's defence and capacitor. Primarily meant for engagements against cruiser-class ships and higher, it can tank multiple heavy missiles and still keep transversal velocity high enough to evade almost all cruiser-class gunfire, even while webbed. This can be extended to the bleeder design becoming the tackler due to it's capacitor-based defence. It's the setup that everyone hates me for because it seems impractical, but remains one of the toughest frigate setups for those that have tried it. 25% armor resistances across the board once you get frigate V ftw. The experimental design is slightly more resistant than the previous design against frigate/destroy gunfire without losing it's potency against cruiser-class and higher. ^^This is what I'm going for, but using the Vengeance instead of the Punisher. I am confused as to why you want to use ACs over rockets on the vengence. Because ACs are capless? but so are rockets and the ship has a damage bonus to rockets. Rockets do decent damage, have the option of chosing a sole damage type and never miss. ...so why again do you want to use ACs? edit Anyways, the Bleeder setup was made before the nos nerf. Now if you have like close to full cap and the other person is very low on cap it won't have the same effect. Furthermore, the target (if it's cruiser or lower) has nos fitted as well.
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Grahv Exitus I would use rockets but I have low skills in rockets/missiles, so I'm forced (for now) to use T2 AC's. When I can use t2 rocket launchers I'll switch over , but as of right now my rocket skills are not high enough for the dmg% bonus to make a difference. -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Scout McAlt State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 18:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Grahv Exitus Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 18:38:21 Originally by: Grahv Exitus I would use rockets but I have low skills in rockets/missiles, so I'm forced (for now) to use T2 AC's. When I can use t2 rocket launchers I'll switch over , but as of right now my rocket skills are not high enough for the dmg% bonus to make a difference. Use named launchers and faction ammo till you train t2. Bleeder setups are obsolete since nos nerf. You want a speed setup + rockets to kill enemy frigs/cepters.
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 19:03:00 - [15] Here is the setup that I've been playing around with... Highs: 3x 200mm AC II 1x Small Nos II Meds: 1x 1mn Afterburner II 1x Warp Scram II (9k) 1x Cap Recharger II Lows: 1x Small Armor Rep II 1x 200mm Rolled Tungsten Plate I 1x CPR II 1x EANM II With this setup I'd have 6407 effective HP for armor alone with Armor resists of: EM- 76.3% Thermal- 61.5% Kinetic- 77.8% Explosive- 88.2% My cap remains stable and I can run all modules indefinitely (including the armor repper) My DPS is 66 with volley dmg of 210 My top speed would 553 m/s with AB (kinda ****ty). -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Sergo Mor'Zert Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.15 19:20:00 - [16] If the goal is killing industrials it will work, if you want to kill mining barge you could probably win... exhumer like hulk will eat you alive with drones.... speed is to low to outrun anything, even med drones would chew you easily... same as ratting drake heavy missles... no this tank will not hold against t2 drones dps is pathetic, will take down only not tanked ships... 66 is before resistances kick in, so ships like transport ship will get like 22-33 dps and they can tank it rather easily lack of web... if you meet mr ceptor he will laugh at you and will kill you, if you meet mr cruiser like thorax he will laugh at you and kill you... you know thorax with mwd is faster than you... much faster...
Grahv Exitus The Unbound	Posted - 2008.03.15 19:38:00 - [17] So instead of being sarcastic, maybe you can, oh I dunno, suggest something helpful? -- Upon him I will visit famine and fire. 'Til all around him desolation rings And all the demons of the outer dark Look on amazed and recognize That vengeance is the business of a man.
Lord WarATron Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.16 10:33:00 - [18] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/03/2008 10:33:56 Originally by: Grahv Exitus Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 20:03:04 So instead of being sarcastic, maybe you can, oh I dunno, suggest something helpful? I would like to discuss it further so that maybe, just maybe, I could develop this into a viable solo/small gang pirating vessel, and I can't do that without the help of more experienced players. (I'm only about 2 months of ACTIVE play time old; new baby and stuff) Use rockets on a rocket ship. Also vengence is not that good a ship as most AF's in this game are horrible. I suggest to change to a Interceptor such as Malediction and use rockets for damge and speed as your tank. You dont need a repairer for a Interceptor, as you should be going so fast that the enemy cannot hit you. Also ditch the AB for a 1mn MWD (t2 if possible). The Assault Frigite class is pretty poor in pvp, other than a few trick situations. You can kill other frigs and haulers/mining barges in a Intercepter, though it is better if you can get a corpmate in a heavy hitting ship so you focus on locking down the target and your friend focus on smashing it. This means you can take on bigger ships that tend to fight back I have a Afterburner Amarr AF but I only use it for joke situations or as a fancy shuttle. They are not for the role that you want to use them for. Most old bleeder setups dont work as Nos got nerfed. Sentinal is a decent ship if you want a bleeder setup but even then, pvp has changed a lot since the olden days. -- Billion Isk Mission
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 10:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 16/03/2008 10:39:31 Originally by: Grahv Exitus Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 20:03:04 So instead of being sarcastic, maybe you can, oh I dunno, suggest something helpful? I would like to discuss it further so that maybe, just maybe, I could develop this into a viable solo/small gang pirating vessel, and I can't do that without the help of more experienced players. (I'm only about 2 months of ACTIVE play time old; new baby and stuff) The reason nobody is taking you seriously is that nobody solos in a Vengeance; it will die against well-fit cruisers and up, and it doesn't have the DPS to break the tank of a tanked anything -- that's with rockets. You'll note that this is the same reason nobody solos in a Punisher. If you roam around lowsec for a while you might find some badly fit frigates or destroyers ratting who you can kill. That's it. And frankly, you'll be able to kill them no matter what the hell you fit on your Vengeance. I like the Vengeance too but it is really not a solo ship.
Acinonyx Jubatus Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.16 12:10:00 - [20] There's something you should note... Nos nerf. I believe that setup was prior to the nosferatu change was implemented. Basically you'd just suck cap nonstop from the target no matter how much cap either of you had. This has been changed, so it will not work in the same manner it used to, you should also note the vengence has a cap recharge bonus(iirc) so that further makes that tactic even harder to pulloff.

Sergo Mor'Zert Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.16 12:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Grahv Exitus Edited by: Grahv Exitus on 15/03/2008 20:03:04 So instead of being sarcastic, maybe you can, oh I dunno, suggest something helpful? I would like to discuss it further so that maybe, just maybe, I could develop this into a viable solo/small gang pirating vessel, and I can't do that without the help of more experienced players. (I'm only about 2 months of ACTIVE play time old; new baby and stuff) THAT was helpfull i posted points WHY this will not work. If you read it carefully you would notice that. So to tell you this with more easy way: -you cant do that in this ship comprende? -if you try you will die comprende? assault ships are atm considered broken becouse: -low speed, cant avoid countermesures like drones for example -low tank, cruisers do better and are cheaper -low damage, cant brake opponent tank, or take so long you will change ship for pod So to be constructive: -go buy cruiser and sell this assault frigate So to be even more clear: -you cant made this work, no matter what And yes all those kills you probably saw are against noob players, usually with vet player piloting AF just for fun. Vet player can take on noobs in cruisers (or even bs if they very big noobs) with AF, becouse: -he have lots of skill points and real life skills -they are noobs so low amount of skills (both in game and in reality) -they usually have horrible fittings, such like: small/med rapairers/boosters, both shield and armor tank, no tank at all, wrong weapon system like lasers on raven, no drones, no neuts, no web and list go on and on But against someone that isnt noob in cruiser he is almost as good as dead.
Sergo Mor'Zert Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.16 12:44:00 - [22] oh and solo pvp... its almost as rare as unicorns, so you should really fly in gang... gang that know what they do, have tacklers, dps some EW, becouse well you will mostly find small gangs yourself... unless you only want to hunt noobs in belts and haulers on gates but it really isnt pvp, more like an execution


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