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Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 77	Posted - 2012.02.21 22:49:00 - [1] - Quote Thanks to FDU fleet commander "Madbuster73", forces of the Villore Accords [GMVA] and respective allies were able to remove the Caldari military occupation from the Intaki solar system, and restore ordinary day-to-day activities in the area. Intaki was attacked and occupied just four standard days ago on the 17th, in what is a strategically superficial move. As many as twenty Black Rise systems are under Federal control, disrupting the military operations based from Wiyrkomi, Lai Dai and Caldari Navy stations in those territories. Intaki has little industrial or military value in comparison, and thus many lives have been wasted for no long-term strategic gain. We suspect that the State Protectorate will continue its obsessive campaign against the Intaki solar system, as Caldari forces seek to disrupt daily living in one of the Federation's founding member home systems. Since the failed, year-long attempt to take the system between late 112 to late 113, Intaki has been relatively peaceful. If it was not for the actions of these jingoistic and bigoted Provists, violence would not have come to the system once again. For as long as the State Protectorate wish to bring violence and war to the Intaki solar system, the Federal Defence Union will be there to drive the invaders out. Should the Caldari re-occupy the system, lightyears away from the nearest State military base, FDU capsuleer forces will respond and react with extreme prejudice, for the benefit of a safe and secure Intaki under the control of its democratically-elected government, and not a foreign occupying force.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 182	Posted - 2012.02.21 22:54:00 - [2] - Quote I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again.
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 77	Posted - 2012.02.21 22:55:00 - [3] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. My dear, you clearly don't know how a federation works.
Mekhana Black Knight Legion 419	Posted - 2012.02.21 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. My dear, you clearly don't know how a federation works. Can't expect a totalitarian to know anything about politics. You still owe me that second drink by the way.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 182	Posted - 2012.02.21 23:03:00 - [5] - Quote Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. My dear, you clearly don't know how a federation works. Oh how silly of me. They are of course free to leave any time they like, just like the Caldari were. My mistake!
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 77	Posted - 2012.02.21 23:08:00 - [6] - Quote I should make a "Federation for dummies" IGS essay thing.
Mekhana Black Knight Legion 419	Posted - 2012.02.21 23:10:00 - [7] - Quote Wonderful idea.
Rall Mekin Suppression Inc. Redneck Rage 3	Posted - 2012.02.21 23:48:00 - [8] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. My dear, you clearly don't know how a federation works. Oh how silly of me. They are of course free to leave any time they like, just like the Caldari were. My mistake! I know, right? Our history is full of the wonders of the Federation. I was taught to pray nightly to the Maker for their return.
Vechtor DuPont Enterprises Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 10	Posted - 2012.02.22 00:31:00 - [9] - Quote Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: ... the Federal Defence Union will be there to drive the invaders out. Should the Caldari re-occupy the system, lightyears away from the nearest State military base, FDU capsuleer forces will respond and react with extreme prejudice, for the benefit of a safe and secure Intaki under the control of its democratically-elected government, and not a foreign occupying force. I almost believed you... but then I remembered the rampant piracy in Placid and realized this is just another political side of a Federation that doesn't give a damn. Stating that Intaki has chosen a lower level of security by itself and therefore you canGÇÖt do anything about it has nothing to do with true Federation roles. As far as IGÇÖm concerned, Caldari is no bigger threat to a safe and secure Intaki than any other known pirate organization that lives in Placid as time showed me couldnGÇÖt be effectively fought against by anti-pirate corporations such as ILF, KISEC (I-RED) and so on... Vechtor
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 77	Posted - 2012.02.22 00:36:00 - [10] - Quote The Federation doesn't give a damn? Would you really appreciate warships under the command from a distant President all the way in Villore to dictate to the local government how security matters should be run? I didn't think so. You contracted Mordu's Legion via your own consent. Anti-piracy affairs are your concerns, under your legal rights as per the Federal Charter. Go speak to them.

Boma Airaken Seekers of a Silent Paradise 10	Posted - 2012.02.22 08:58:00 - [11] - Quote Intaki has a whole **** of a lot more to worry about than militias, these days.
Bataav Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 47	Posted - 2012.02.22 10:19:00 - [12] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. My dear, you clearly don't know how a federation works. Oh how silly of me. They are of course free to leave any time they like, just like the Caldari were. My mistake! General, I wonder whether you understand some aspects of a Federal system either. Ms Vitalia has hit the proverbial nail on the head with her response. Let us look at the example of the political system chosen by Intaki free from the Federal oppression of the time. The Syndicate model, with each independent station being autonomous, almost sovereign in it's own right, but together collaborating in areas of trade (Intaki Commerce), security (Intaki Space Police) or finance (Intaki Bank) appears to operate as a confederation. General I invite you to research the difference between the confederation and federation systems, and bear Ms Vitalia's comments in mind when you do. For your convenience: By definition, the difference between a confederation and a federation is that the membership of the member states in a confederation is voluntary, while the membership in a federation is not. We're all well aware of the Federation's reaction the last time someone wanted to leave. But the Federation today is a different place. It's perhaps unfair to judge governments of the past by the standards of today. Oppression has turned to neglect. Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: The Federation doesn't give a damn? You contracted Mordu's Legion via your own consent. Anti-piracy affairs are your concerns, under your legal rights as per the Federal Charter. Go speak to them. Here we have the standard template response whenever someone points out that piracy is a concern. While it might be true that for the last couple of years Mordu's Legion has been operating in the Intaki system, what about the rest of Placid? What about before the Legion were contracted? No, the Federation doesn't give a damn. It doesn't give a damn about security in Placid from Ostingele to Orvolle. It certainly didn't give a damn after the humanitarian disaster in Reschard, leaving others to take care of the recovery effort. Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: For as long as the State Protectorate wish to bring violence and war to the Intaki solar system... snip ...FDU capsuleer forces will respond and react with extreme prejudice. I think it's a fair assessment that the only interest both Federation and State militias have for the Intaki system is in preventing the other from having it. Why else would the STPRO neglect to defend and reclaim their own systems in Black Rise and ignore half of Placid to strike at Intaki? Why else would the FDU fall over themselves to retake the system once more when only months ago Esesier and Harroule languished under State control without respite for a good deal longer. Any attempt to convince us that the FDU in particular are looking out for the interests of Intaki security are laughable. What we're looking at here is militia pride. Bragging rights. Nothing more, nothing less. Bataav en Gravonere. Diplomat. Intaki Liberation Front
Mekhana Black Knight Legion 419	Posted - 2012.02.22 10:43:00 - [13] - Quote Oh please.
Vechtor DuPont Enterprises Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 10	Posted - 2012.02.22 12:48:00 - [14] - Quote Bataav wrote: Here we have the standard template response whenever someone points out that piracy is a concern. While it might be true that for the last couple of years Mordu's Legion has been operating in the Intaki system, what about the rest of Placid? What about before the Legion were contracted? No, the Federation doesn't give a damn. It doesn't give a damn about security in Placid from Ostingele to Orvolle. It certainly didn't give a damn after the humanitarian disaster in Reschard, leaving others to take care of the recovery effort. Yes, they keep repeating that template response through the years like brainless robots. I believe its a nice way to admit they can't do anything about piracy in their own backyard. Like you stated: its a matter of security that goes well before any fight between both militias took place in Placid and has always been a Placid-wide problem, not just Intaki's. Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Would you really appreciate warships under the command from a distant President all the way in Villore to dictate to the local government how security matters should be run? If the Federation tried something like that I'd admit it would be giving a damn.
Caellach Marellus Nephtys Ventures inc 442	Posted - 2012.02.22 13:45:00 - [15] - Quote All Empires are overstretched with regards to effective policing against criminals. Placid is merely the Federal equivalent of Molden Heath, Bleak Lands or Black Rise. It's the unfortunate downside to rapid growth, and something every Empire should focus on trying to improve. Would be a lot easier if they weren't at war with each other mind. However Intaki is a system that chose it's own policing, from the moment it joined the Federation no less. You can point your fingers at the Federation's supporters and cry out "Same old s##t" all you want, but it doesn't make that fact less true. Also trying to compare the Caldari situation to the Intaki is gravely insulting to the Intaki. If the Intaki were attempting to deceive the Federation while creating a secret military backbone, then crying foul when caught with their hand in the cookie jar then fair enough. All you need is for a subsection of the Intaki to commit mass murder through terrorism and start a war. Personally I think the Intaki are nowhere near stupid enough to do something so suicidal. Still in a discussion that was started with media spin I suppose it was going to be filled with people trying to sell their own agenda. On a side note, if Intaki wasn't retaken by the FDU I'm pretty sure the voices crying "bragging rights" now would be going "See, they don't care about Intaki after all, they'd rather spend more time conquering Black Rise!" Enjoy your gaming. http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com
Mekhana Black Knight Legion 421	Posted - 2012.02.22 13:46:00 - [16] - Quote If anything I learned from ILF is that they will always complain, no matter what the situation is. Talk about bitterness.
Bataav Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 49	Posted - 2012.02.22 17:43:00 - [17] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: On a side note, if Intaki wasn't retaken by the FDU I'm pretty sure the voices crying "bragging rights" now would be going "See, they don't care about Intaki after all, they'd rather spend more time conquering Black Rise!" That's not entirely accurate. There are plenty of examples in the Summit archives where the ILF has been critical of State militia aggression in the Intaki system. It's incorrect to try and suggest we only speak out against one side and not the other. In fact when the State militia first swept through Placid and took the Intaki system, the ILF spoke out against the impact on the local population. The IPI alliance launched a relief effort which was reported on at the time. I don't doubt that had the State militia announced the success of their offensive to take Intaki four days ago there would have been an ILF response criticising their actions in the system. As it was they reserved their self congratulating and back slapping to the local Intaki channel for the benefit of those present at the time. Mekhana wrote: If anything I learned from ILF is that they will always complain, no matter what the situation is. Talk about bitterness. It's not bitterness. It's concerned citizens of a Federal system speaking out against two neighbouring powers consistently fighting each other over what is generally considered a system of little strategic value, inflicting untold damage to both the economic and industrial infrastructure in the system on top of the millions of unnecessary deaths of combatants on both sides and more importantly of those innocent civilians unfortunate enough to caught in the middle. You want Intaki to fall in line and be good little Federation citizens? Then expect us to excersize our right to free speech, doing what any other reasonable citizen would do and challenging the status quo where it is found wanting. Put a little practice into the virtues of the Federation you so passionately defend. Mr Marellus has attempted to use another Federal favourite to counter Intaki concerns over security - "you asked for minimal protection...". How convenient it is that such an arguement ignores the fact that New Eden was an entirely different place at the founding of the Federation. The State didn't exist. The Syndicate didn't exist. Serpentis didn't exist. Capsuleers didn't exist. None of the challenges that face Intaki and Placid in general today existed at that time and so a request for minimal protection was entirely reasonable. Even CONCORD didn't exist and so the entire security rating system wasn't in effect. Times have changed. New Eden has changed. To dismissively return to the tired, well rehersed lines of "you asked for minimal protection", disregarding valid opinion as Intaki "bitterness" is entirely indicative of what's wrong with the current system and provides a core for the ILF's efforts. Bataav en Gravonere. Diplomat. Intaki Liberation Front
Caellach Marellus Nephtys Ventures inc 443	Posted - 2012.02.22 17:49:00 - [18] - Quote Bataav wrote: Mr Marellus has attempted to use another Federal favourite to counter Intaki concerns over security - "you asked for minimal protection...". How convenient it is that such an arguement ignores the fact that New Eden was an entirely different place at the founding of the Federation. I didn't say they asked for minimal protection, they asked to be self automated in all local security concerns. The fact that their security has been ineffective at best up till this point is not a finger of blame towards the Federation. Nor is the changing of ways a finger of blame towards the Federation. You'll remember when the FDU took back Intaki in their great turn around at the start of last year, the Intaki barred any entry by the Federation Navy due to said agreement. The argument is still apt to day, if it's to change it'll be on the Intaki government's terms, and till now they haven't requested any change in the charter. Enjoy your gaming. http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com
Mammal Tafren Ida Covenant Federal Consensus Outreach 21	Posted - 2012.02.22 21:24:00 - [19] - Quote I don't think that it's unreasonable to say that Intaki is better off in Federal than in State hands, particularly considering what happened last time that Intaki fell to the Provists. I personally thank every FDU member involved in the recapture for putting their lives on the line for the welfare of the Intaki people. Whether or not Intaki would be even better off if it were entirely independent from the struggles of the major empires is not really relevant at the moment. The mud slinging helps no-one.
Sakaane Eionell Intaki Liberation Front 32	Posted - 2012.02.23 04:27:00 - [20] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: they asked to be self automated in all local security concerns. The fact that their security has been ineffective at best up till this point is not a finger of blame towards the Federation. Isn't it? Tell me, Mr Marellus, how exactly do you expect the Intaki Assembly to generate its own, proper security force in Intaki, or anywhere else in Placid, when the Federation has a choke hold on station grants in this area? Can you find any Intaki Assembly stations in orbit around any celestial bodies in Placid? No? Neither can I. How about securing work from agents employed by the Assembly? Such persons would have the Assembly's interest, rather than the Federation's, as focus. No? Can't find any of them either, whether Security or Distribution or Mining or R&D. Because of this the Assembly cannot even directly contract independent capsuleers for any purpose. How effective do you think the Assembly's security force might turn out to be if made to beg at the Federation's skirts for rental space to house ships, crews, pilots, training facilities, and so on? Do you think the Assembly would find it to be good fiscal sense to be at the mercy of Federation budgets and taxes in such locations, rather than being able to collect their own revenue via their own stations to feed back into their security program to help offset the operating costs a security force incurs? Or do you expect civilians living on Intaki and other colonies in Placid to pay the rental bills through taxes in addition to footing the bill for the security force itself? Or perhaps you think the Assembly should have to erect its own POS like any common independent capsuleer corporation? As a charter signatory certainly they should be entitled to establishing their own stations! For that matter, while the Assembly has their agreement with Ishukone and Mordu's, neither of these organizations have, to date, secured their own local station property either. Note that I'm not saying they necessarily should be allowed to build their own station in Intaki, but doesnGÇÖt it seem rather curious that nothing of that sort has come about? Even a State entity as grudgingly agreeable as Ishukone must feel some disdain at being forced to base from a station owned by a Federation-aligned entity. When pressed about this topic at the YC113 Holoreel Convention, representatives of the Federation could offer no satisfactory explanation about station rights, agents, and such related matters except to say the Assembly had not secured the proper approvals. Funny how all the existing stations are directly linked to the Federation. Funny how the Intaki Assembly only denied the Federation Navy access to the Intaki system itself, yet so much more of Placid is vacant of proper policing and thus remains low security space by CONCORD standards. What is the navy's excuse for this? They are stretched thin? Please. How much bureaucratic red tape is actually thrown up in order to deny the Assembly the approvals they would need in order to do the job the Federation agreed to allow the Assembly to undertake? I'd be willing to bet the Federation would say something akin to From our cold, dead hands before releasing any existing station rights or allowing any additional ones in Intaki, or anywhere else for that matter. To do so would actually allow the Assembly to get its foot in the door and be one step closer to becoming truly autonomous, and thus independent, from the "great" Gallente nation. Sakaane Eionell ILF Isha-Sainika, IPI President - Solitary Pilot \| @ILFCorp -

Caellach Marellus Nephtys Ventures inc 446	Posted - 2012.02.25 01:38:00 - [21] - Quote Thank you Captain Eionell for your detailed and emotional reply, just a few things I'd like to ask though. Sakaane Eionell wrote: Isn't it? Tell me, Mr Marellus, how exactly do you expect the Intaki Assembly to generate its own, proper security force in Intaki, or anywhere else in Placid, when the Federation has a choke hold on station grants in this area? Apologies for cutting the rest of the quote short, but surely your frustration at the situation should lie in this case with your ancestors who were short sighted enough to not request this in their agreement when they joined the Federation along with the other demands they had for self determination? I can understand it might feel humiliating to have to make such a request to an overall governing body but surely that's nothing to hold over them with contempt? You are no different to any other entity within the Federation who would have to go through the same process. Quote: Funny how the Intaki Assembly only denied the Federation Navy access to the Intaki system itself, yet so much more of Placid is vacant of proper policing and thus remains low security space by CONCORD standards. What is the navy's excuse for this? They are stretched thin? Please. I think I touched on this earlier, and offered examples across all the Empires. This is much like your compatriot's "Oh please, that old chestnut" reply to the comments regarding the Federation's agreement with the Intaki in the first place. Just because you don't like a fact, no matter how long it's been around, doesn't make it any less true. Personally as I'm sure I've said before I would love to see more resources across all Empires dedicated to improving the security in these systems, it'd be better spent than shooting the hell out of each other for no gain. Quote: How much bureaucratic red tape is actually thrown up in order to deny the Assembly the approvals they would need in order to do the job the Federation agreed to allow the Assembly to undertake? I'd be willing to bet the Federation would say something akin to From our cold, dead hands before releasing any existing station rights or allowing any additional ones in Intaki, or anywhere else for that matter. To do so would actually allow the Assembly to get its foot in the door and be one step closer to becoming truly autonomous, and thus independent, from the "great" Gallente nation. I'm not going to delve into the realm of supposition and hyperbole here, quite frankly without actually going ahead and doing it the answer is pretty clear, I don't know and you don't know. Short of being someone in a position to give an answer (who probably also doesn't know because they haven't had an application to actually mull over) I don't think anyone can give you a factual answer on this. Playing guessing games won't help anyone. Enjoy your gaming. http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1268	Posted - 2012.02.25 06:27:00 - [22] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: I'm sure the Intaki people are.. most excited to be under Federation control again. If my cousin Zeke is drinking that stuff he makes from boiled lorenz fluid and rotten grain he and anybody who drinks with him probably didn't notice.
Desiderya Wolfraam 74 24	Posted - 2012.02.25 10:43:00 - [23] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: All Empires are overstretched with regards to effective policing against criminals. Placid is merely the Federal equivalent of Molden Heath, Bleak Lands or Black Rise. It's the unfortunate downside to rapid growth, and something every Empire should focus on trying to improve. Black Rise is an extremely freshly settled region, and by settled we're talking corporate enclaves, arcologies or purpose-built colonies, and not by any means a 'native population'.
Lyn Farel Extropian Technologies 241	Posted - 2012.02.25 12:08:00 - [24] - Quote Desiderya wrote: Caellach Marellus wrote: All Empires are overstretched with regards to effective policing against criminals. Placid is merely the Federal equivalent of Molden Heath, Bleak Lands or Black Rise. It's the unfortunate downside to rapid growth, and something every Empire should focus on trying to improve. Black Rise is an extremely freshly settled region, and by settled we're talking corporate enclaves, arcologies or purpose-built colonies, and not by any means a 'native population'. My apologies for being a little confused, but what does this have to do with his point ?
Jon Engel Machete Carbide 21	Posted - 2012.03.06 00:16:00 - [25] - Quote So maybe someday the Caldari State will actually win something next time they conquer Intaki? So maybe someday the Gallente Federation will actually win something next time they liberate Intaki?
Desiderya Wolfraam 74 25	Posted - 2012.03.06 10:08:00 - [26] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: My apologies for being a little confused, but what does this have to do with his point ? I do not see what there is to misunderstand? Black Rise is not equivalent to Placid. We're not talking about a sizeable native population - civilists - that are suffering under neglect from the responsible authorities in these systems.
Astera Zandraki Gallente Independent Progressive Alternative Federal Consensus Outreach 6	Posted - 2012.03.06 11:28:00 - [27] - Quote Neglect? I'm amused by how often people paint we Intake as victims, as the oppressed. My ancestors chose to take charge of their own policing matters. This isn't neglect, this was our choice. The State's objectives have been fulfilled, you have Caldari Prime, fine, keep it but do not claim to represent systems or peoples who are quite capable of making their own decisions. I, along with most other Intake have voted with my feet, choosing Federal democracy over Provist dictatorship.
Desiderya Wolfraam 74 25	Posted - 2012.03.06 17:47:00 - [28] - Quote You can quit yapping, I have merely picked up the argumentation of my predecessor to illustrate the point I was trying to make to Ms. Farel. Besides, the militia war started after an agreement about the surrender of Caldari Prime to the State was brokered. Not everyone seemed to be content with that solution - on both sides, I might add - and now we have our pointless region wide skirmish. You have hardly voted with your feet against 'Provist Oppression', but feel free to nurture your disdain, I'm sure it'll help you along splendidly. Oh, and while we're at it: claiming to be part of 'the majority' is always a good way to enforce your point, especially as a capsuleer, who are known to be one with the people.
Astera Zandraki Gallente Independent Progressive Alternative Federal Consensus Outreach 6	Posted - 2012.03.06 18:49:00 - [29] - Quote Fisrtly, I would appreciate it if you did not misquote me. I said 'Provist dictatorship' not 'Provist Oppression'. Secondly, The vast majority of ethnic Intake live in the Federation. Thirdly, ad Hominen attacks do not become you.
Lyn Farel Extropian Technologies 243	Posted - 2012.03.06 19:15:00 - [30] - Quote Desiderya wrote: Lyn Farel wrote: My apologies for being a little confused, but what does this have to do with his point ? I do not see what there is to misunderstand? Black Rise is not equivalent to Placid. We're not talking about a sizeable native population - civilists - that are suffering under neglect from the responsible authorities in these systems. Yes, this is why I have difficulties to understand why you refer to the difference in terms of native population while Mr Marellus was refering to policing against criminals...



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