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Strange incident and petition response time question

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Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:25:00 - [1] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 16/03/2008 18:26:22 Hi guys, The following happened, I was camping a gate with my alt and there was nothing going on so after 20 minutes or so of sitting still I decided to log and call it a night. As soon as clicked to go dock I got a screen that said 'connection failed' or the likes. I thought hmmm how strange then I tried to dock my alt on a different computer at that same time, and again 'connection failed'. Then I looked on my third account and as soon as I clicked, you geussed it, 'connection failed'. So what I did was log on again and I find my self in my clone station, me and my alt have been killed and podded, I did not witness anything of the whole event ! So I filed a petition 14 hours ago but unfortunatly I did not get a response yet. Do anyone of you have simular experiences and what are my chances of getting reimbursed? I lost about 900 mil due to this ordeal . What is the average petition response time? ___________________ Sexy Time:
Tintifish Species 5618 Te-Ka	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:31:00 - [2] What happened was that you got disconnected, however when your internet drops and not the eve server(if that makes sense), the game never thinks to shut. It just waits for the next commands from the server. If you dont enter any input, it wont expect any response, so it wont realise it's not connected. Chances of getting reimbursed? 50/50 tbh. Average reponse time? Usually 1-7 days on a reimbursement petition, its really variable. Dont expect anything within 24 hours.
Fer DeLance Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:37:00 - [3] Same thing happened to me and my corp mates yesterday... we were in a fleet, i was for some time in a safe spot (until agression ends), and when i tryed to warp, i found out, i was disconnected... told it to the rest of the corp mates, and all of them, but one, were disconnected also, with out knowing... We could have long be dead, and we wouldn't know... I know the issue, i hope you get your ship and things back...
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:38:00 - [4] As it happens I have a petition open for a similar case. Currently I have waited 5-6 days, no responce yet. I think because of the patch, petitions will take longer. In your case, you may have to wait more than 7 days. I'm nearly certain that in both our cases, the answer will be "our logs don't show anything wrong". I'm willing to bet 100 mil on that. I know it's hopeless, but I wait for the answer anyway.
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Tintifish What happened was that you got disconnected, however when your internet drops and not the eve server(if that makes sense), the game never thinks to shut. It just waits for the next commands from the server. If you dont enter any input, it wont expect any response, so it wont realise it's not connected. Chances of getting reimbursed? 50/50 tbh. Average reponse time? Usually 1-7 days on a reimbursement petition, its really variable. Dont expect anything within 24 hours. But I still died, so how does the server not know, does it not send a packet every x seconds to check if I am still there? ___________________ Sexy Time:
Wild Rho GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:45:00 - [6] I've had similar connection issues now and then. The best thing to do is open the market or just type something in a chat channel now and then. Even if it doesn't stop your connection going down it'll at least give you a warning that it's down.
Vested Interest Hedion University	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:46:00 - [7] I had an odd one yesterday; It didn't result in a loss though. I was sitting in Oursulaert III and hit Undock, then changed my mind and aborted the undock--was positively still in-station, then I logged. Logged back in a couple hours later and somehow had been undocked and emergency warped somewhere.
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Ephemeron As it happens I have a petition open for a similar case. Currently I have waited 5-6 days, no responce yet. I think because of the patch, petitions will take longer. In your case, you may have to wait more than 7 days. I'm nearly certain that in both our cases, the answer will be "our logs don't show anything wrong". I'm willing to bet 100 mil on that. I know it's hopeless, but I wait for the answer anyway. I this is true my gaming EVE experience will be affected in a very negativ way. It might happen again and again, and then im broke. Lets not jump to conclusions, but I will keep this thread updated. Ephemeron could you elaborate on what happened in your case and possible keep us updated aswell? Als you state you have been waiting for 5 - 6 days, I am currently sitting in a station waiting to get reimbursed... so I might just move on for now. I expect a positiv outcome though, I have been very thorough in describing what happened, also the fact that it the events occured on all 3 accounts at the same time must count for something... ___________________ Sexy Time:
Daelorn Dark Cartel Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:49:00 - [9] You got disconnected from the server, but your client didn't notice. Chat will stop, if you see people flying around they will just keep flying in the same direction. You won't notice until you change sessions (Dock, jump, ect). As for the petition, I don't know what the wait time for them is now, but I wouldn't expect a response for at least a week .
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.16 18:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Lo3d3R I thought hmmm how strange then I tried to dock my alt on a different computer at that same time, and again 'connection failed'. Then I looked on my third account and as soon as I clicked, you geussed it, 'connection failed'. Do anyone of you have simular experiences All the time. I think Eve lacks some sort of "keep alive" packets to check if its still connected once in a while. At least once I have been playing Eve for up to minutes in "offline mode" before it realizes that its desynced or not connected anymore. As for the chances of a petition, my advise however is to spend your time on something more productive, like trying to boil water by looking at it --
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Lo3d3R Originally by: Tintifish What happened was that you got disconnected, however when your internet drops and not the eve server(if that makes sense), the game never thinks to shut. It just waits for the next commands from the server. If you dont enter any input, it wont expect any response, so it wont realise it's not connected. Chances of getting reimbursed? 50/50 tbh. Average reponse time? Usually 1-7 days on a reimbursement petition, its really variable. Dont expect anything within 24 hours. But I still died, so how does the server not know, does it not send a packet every x seconds to check if I am still there? The server know that you are disconnected after some time (from my experience it can be some minute in the worst case), it is the EVE program on your computer that don't know that. If you were killed by players, I think your chances of being reimbursed are practically zero. Probably you were aggressed before the server detected the DC, so you had the 15 minutes aggression timer before disappearing from space.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Lo3d3R ..Ephemeron could you elaborate on what happened in your case and possible keep us updated aswell? Als you state you have been waiting for 5 - 6 days, I am currently sitting in a station waiting to get reimbursed... so I might just move on for now. I expect a positiv outcome though, I have been very thorough in describing what happened, also the fact that the events occured on all 3 accounts at the same time must count for something... I would describe what happened here if it wasn't so laughable. Seriously, that would hurt me. I can offer you a deal: if you get reimbursed in this petition, I will send you 100 mil. But if you get rejected, you send me 10 mil. How about it? At the same time, if I get reimbursed for my petition, I will send you 100 mil. If I don't, you send me 10 mil. Do you want to accept?
Jennai The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.16 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Lo3d3R Als you state you have been waiting for 5 - 6 days, I am currently sitting in a station waiting to get reimbursed... so I might just move on for now. I expect a positiv outcome though, I have been very thorough in describing what happened, also the fact that the events occured on all 3 accounts at the same time must count for something... I petitioned a loss that was a result of a system-wide desync. I waited two weeks for the "logs don't show anything" response and then spent another half a week trying to get it escalated, but then the GM who initially responded took another look at the logs and saw that there was indeed something screwed up and I got my ship back. moral of the story: always escalate reimbursement petitions
Whip Slagcheek Vajayjay	Posted - 2008.03.16 20:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Jennai moral of the story: always escalate reimbursement petitions Reimbursement queue: 1 to 3 weeks
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:02:00 - [15] Ok some good tips and some really depressing predictions as to whether or not I will be reimbursed. If I do not get reimbursed I can forcast a very big WTF moment and you might see a mushroom cloud of boiled blood hanging over some part of Western Europe after I detonate from pure anger, frustration and helplessness. @ Ephermeron I was never good at sending money , lets just see where this goes. ___________________ Sexy Time:
Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Lo3d3R Edited by: Lo3d3R on 16/03/2008 18:26:22 Hi guys, The following happened, I was camping a gate with my alt and there was nothing going on so after 20 minutes or so of sitting still I decided to log and call it a night. As soon as clicked to go dock I got a screen that said 'connection failed' or the likes. I thought hmmm how strange then I tried to dock my alt on a different computer at that same time, and again 'connection failed'. Then I looked on my third account and as soon as I clicked, you geussed it, 'connection failed'. So what I did was log on again and I find my self in my clone station, me and my alt have been killed and podded, I did not witness anything of the whole event ! So I filed a petition 14 hours ago but unfortunatly I did not get a response yet. Do anyone of you have simular experiences and what are my chances of getting reimbursed? I lost about 900 mil due to this ordeal . What is the average petition response time? why should CCP reimburse you for what seems to be incredible bandwidth usage on your part? ____________________________________________ Originally by: Thargat They should change the name of CAOD to EvE Zoo. Please to not feed the animals.
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Khanid Kutie Originally by: Lo3d3R Edited by: Lo3d3R on 16/03/2008 18:26:22 Hi guys, The following happened, I was camping a gate with my alt and there was nothing going on so after 20 minutes or so of sitting still I decided to log and call it a night. As soon as clicked to go dock I got a screen that said 'connection failed' or the likes. I thought hmmm how strange then I tried to dock my alt on a different computer at that same time, and again 'connection failed'. Then I looked on my third account and as soon as I clicked, you geussed it, 'connection failed'. So what I did was log on again and I find my self in my clone station, me and my alt have been killed and podded, I did not witness anything of the whole event ! So I filed a petition 14 hours ago but unfortunatly I did not get a response yet. Do anyone of you have simular experiences and what are my chances of getting reimbursed? I lost about 900 mil due to this ordeal . What is the average petition response time? why should CCP reimburse you for what seems to be incredible bandwidth usage on your part? I use two computers and got enough bandwidth to run 100 accounts, I will not use that bandwidth to feed the obvious troll . ___________________ Sexy Time:
DeadRow Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:28:00 - [18] I always get this in station when I go afk for 10+ minutes, only time it hasn't d/c'd me is when I was sitting afk outside a station by accident while I went for dinner >_< Quote: Iz in ur base, implanting ur dudes
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:40:00 - [19] I have just a reimbursement petition running about a loss in a gate camp (ehm, being on the other side of the front than you though) due to horror lag and desync (found myself in a clone station after relog of my dead client, not before). I've got an answer after around 3 days with something like "we won't reimburse because our server logs don't show a bug/error" and some kind words that this doesn't mean that they don't believe me but without clear proof they cannot do anything and so on (the default answer - as someone already said above). I thought to give up but then I searched a bit through the log files on my hard disk and found imo contradictionary events which could prove a bug (namely: I wrote something in the local channel of the gate camp more than a minute AFTER I received the pod destruction kill log which necessarily should have sent me into another system far away; both times and events are logged. Maybe you will find similar timely impossible logged events like the time of your pod kill (combat log) and something going on and logged in the system of your camp AFTER the pod kill). I've sent this analysis as reply to the petition answer, requested again for petition and I am now waiting for the next reply (since around 2 days or so). I'm curious what will happen.
Macedon Jankolas MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:49:00 - [20] I know the feeling. This hapend to me long time ago, for some reason i lost the conection to EVE (only EVE not internet) very often for like 1-2 months. I could be in gang, or gate camp my self (pirating and so on)) and when losing conection, i did not noticed anything. Till i clicked to dock or tryed to use the scaner, or any function. Then i could see that everything had crached. Lucky me i did not lose any ships. Those 2 months i had to click on the scaner every 15 seconds to feel safe and chec that i was online. Fix that CCP. test tets test
Tyria Sharken TalCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.16 23:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Lo3d3R But I still died, so how does the server not know, does it not send a packet every x seconds to check if I am still there? What happend is this. As you said, you were sitting at a gate, likely sitting still and not orbiting, or moveing or warping back and forth from a moon to teh gate. When you do this, there is a chance that the Server will disconnect from you, but as EVE does not constantly 'ping' the client, your client itself didnt realize it had lost connection as it wasnt being told to send any information to the server (ie when you tried to dock, it sends a command to the server that you wish to dock, then the server tells your client to update by showing your ship moveing to the station) So.. while you sat there on your screen, in EVE events were happenng that you couldnt see, And you didnt know you were disconected again, because your client dosnt activly send 'checks' to the server. (its a nice way to cut down on Server lag, but its a MAJOR cause of these types of instances happening) The Reimbersment 'might' swing in your favor if they can check the logs on the server and see that you were attacked, and took no action to try to save yourself. But again, this is caused because the Client dosnt send any regular 'checks' to the server to make sure its still connected.. The only real way to keep this from happening to you in the future is to every so often, orbit the gate, or one of teh guns, stop, speed-up, slow-down your ship.. lauch, pull in drones.. just periodicaly do something that'll make your client send a 'hey i want to do this' signal to teh server to make sure your still connected. --------------------------------------------- "Only two great species on this planet take part in massive, organized warfare. Men, and ants."
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 23:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Lo3d3R on 16/03/2008 23:56:55 Originally by: Tyria Sharken Originally by: Lo3d3R But I still died, so how does the server not know, does it not send a packet every x seconds to check if I am still there? What happend is this. As you said, you were sitting at a gate, likely sitting still and not orbiting, or moveing or warping back and forth from a moon to teh gate. When you do this, there is a chance that the Server will disconnect from you, but as EVE does not constantly 'ping' the client, your client itself didnt realize it had lost connection as it wasnt being told to send any information to the server (ie when you tried to dock, it sends a command to the server that you wish to dock, then the server tells your client to update by showing your ship moveing to the station) So.. while you sat there on your screen, in EVE events were happenng that you couldnt see, And you didnt know you were disconected again, because your client dosnt activly send 'checks' to the server. (its a nice way to cut down on Server lag, but its a MAJOR cause of these types of instances happening) The Reimbersment 'might' swing in your favor if they can check the logs on the server and see that you were attacked, and took no action to try to save yourself. But again, this is caused because the Client dosnt send any regular 'checks' to the server to make sure its still connected.. The only real way to keep this from happening to you in the future is to every so often, orbit the gate, or one of teh guns, stop, speed-up, slow-down your ship.. lauch, pull in drones.. just periodicaly do something that'll make your client send a 'hey i want to do this' signal to teh server to make sure your still connected. A very nice explanation, if this is infact the case which would be most likely, then I could never actually play the game without this paranoid feeling of not 'being' in the game . Is it an idea to make some sort of third party program that auto sends packets for your client . Or maybe I should put on an auto-ping program on my computer to ping the EVE-server, maybe this will help keep the connection 'more alive'?. [note: my internet provider had been rated best in my country for several years and has allot of peering partners (good routing) and all my hardware is up to date.] ___________________ Sexy Time:
The Socialworker The Socialworkers	Posted - 2008.03.16 23:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Macedon Jankolas I know the feeling. This hapend to me long time ago, for some reason i lost the conection to EVE (only EVE not internet) very often for like 1-2 months. I could be in gang, or gate camp my self (pirating and so on)) and when losing conection, i did not noticed anything. Till i clicked to dock or tryed to use the scaner, or any function. Then i could see that everything had crached. Lucky me i did not lose any ships. Those 2 months i had to click on the scaner every 15 seconds to feel safe and chec that i was online. Fix that CCP. I had a similar thing happening to me for about 2 months, of disconects all the **#@@% time, and especially within the first few minutes of logging in. If I could stay on for 5 minutes i might get a bit of a run, but still really unstable. Ended up playing a purely in station trading game because of it. Everything else on the internets worked np though. I never got around to contacting my cable provider, but assumed it was a problem with them or some other link in the chain. It's totally cleared up the last weak or two, but it would be handy to have sticky in the problems forum about diagnosing/solving that sort of problem. ATM there is just a big thread with lots of people saying 'I've got connection problems' that they clear most of the posts from every now and then. It would be usefull to have a sticky step by step guide of how to diagnose, how to use pingplotter or whatever and stuff like that for us less techys
Bruno Capri Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2008.03.17 00:11:00 - [24] I've experienced similar issues so now sit in an active channel like recruitment or one of the trade channels; seems to do the trick for me anyway _______________ Fight the Power
Rogaru Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:35:00 - [25] I get disconnected if I go afk for 5 minutes for more. Used to happen in World of Warcraft aswell. Its not Eve - it's something with your internet/firewall/computer/ISP/etc etc Still havent worked out what it is for me yet :(
Minerva Vulcan The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.03.17 01:45:00 - [26] That's what you get for solo camping a gate with close to a billion in ships to be honest.
Venkul Mul Vikramaditya DO JAJA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.17 11:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Rogaru I get disconnected if I go afk for 5 minutes for more. Used to happen in World of Warcraft aswell. Its not Eve - it's something with your internet/firewall/computer/ISP/etc etc Still havent worked out what it is for me yet :( Some provider cut the connection after x minutes of inactivity and, from what I have read in forum, even some setting of the firewall/router can do the same. That is why keeping open a busy chat can help. The constant stream of data from the server keep the connection alive if that is the problem.
Sha4d13 State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 12:01:00 - [28] Did this happen over the weekend, post patch? Some areas were lagging out horribly as a result- with no obvious signs on the client. I could warp around etc- the only sign of a problem was endless session change messages on gates- and completely empty belts. I personally will be very cross if my own petition doesnt get acceptance on this occasion! Not holding my breath though....
Valishka GHOST RANGERS Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.17 14:07:00 - [29] I actually think it was the EVE server dropping players. I logged in 2 days ago and their was 34k players online. An hour later I lose connection. I attempted 2x after that and each time I tried the number of players online was dropping. Im not talking a few, Im talking 1000's. When I finally got in 10 min. later the number of players shown online was 22k.
Lo3d3R MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.17 16:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Valishka I actually think it was the EVE server dropping players. I logged in 2 days ago and their was 34k players online. An hour later I lose connection. I attempted 2x after that and each time I tried the number of players online was dropping. Im not talking a few, Im talking 1000's. When I finally got in 10 min. later the number of players shown online was 22k. Well sofar I have heard nothing from any GM, so we can call this day 1. ___________________ Sexy Time:

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