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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:25:00 -
[31]
/signed
High alpha mael , high RoF/falloff pest makes more sense.
Sniperpest would have less alpha , but longer range (plus launcher slots) making it a stronger anti-support ship (load phased plasma and shoot down targets 50km away)
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked
I don't believe that a link to a RickRoll video constitutes proof, even in CAOD.
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:55:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Wu Jiun
Originally by: Polinus
You really fail. Your own quote supports me. The bonus is that because the ship is supposed to be used with BEAMS and they don't want to make it good with pulse too.
If you think apoc is not a MADE TO BE SNIPER ship, then you should stop playing
Mhh, yeah sure that 2.5% sure make the difference between apoc worst closerange boat ever and apoc good with pulses, alrighty.
And as i said pest is a good sniper and frequently used as one. Furthermore as a closerange boat maelstrom and phoon are both better (pretty much). So the situation is very similar to the amarr bs.
In other words: get your head out of your ass dude.
No, I think you need to do it. He is right. Apoc is not a close range battleship! You cannot compare a tempest fit for close range with an APOC fit for close range and use as argument for saying tempest is good. Apoc SUX in lcose range. Compare tempest with armageddon if you want some reasonable perspective.
I repeat APOX SUX at close range. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:15:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Wu Jiun on 17/03/2008 17:18:36
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
No, I think you need to do it. He is right. Apoc is not a close range battleship!
What exactly makes the pest a closerange battleship then? And why in hell does it perform as a sniper? Unless you or your friend there cannot answer this question your point is moot. Thats what you like the tempest to be but thats totally different.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
You cannot compare a tempest fit for close range with an APOC fit for close range and use as argument for saying tempest is good.
I didn't compare it to a current tempest and said current pest is good. Far from it.
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Apoc SUX in lcose range. Compare tempest with armageddon if you want some reasonable perspective.
Of course it sux compared to geddon/baddon. Surprise surprise. And guess what current tempest sucks too in closerange generally speaking not because its a bad ship per se but because there are always better alternatives. So whats your point exactly? That pest is a closerange boat but apoc not because both of them suck closerange? Mhh, yeah sounds about right.
Comparing it to a geddon? It has already been done a thousand times. I specifically compared the proposed pest to the apoc because the op said:
Originally by: kessah
i feel it would reflect amarr / minmatar tier 2 bs's from caldari / gallente.
So whats the name of the amarr tier2 bs? I don't think i need to tell you. So i compared both of them and concluded the new pest would outshine apooc in closerange by a large margin. Whats the deal? Nowhere did i say apoc > geddon or apoc > abaddon or pest = good. Nowhere.
I said i feel the new pest might be a bit too much and how that doesn't strike you when reading the proposals i do not know.
Originally by: kessah
I repeat APOX SUX at close range.
Abaddon and geddon are far better. And as i said maelstom and phoon are better closerange than pest. Still you conclude pest is a closerange boat and apoc is a pure sniper i wonder how that works out.
But then again you are the guy who claimed the cap use on an abaddon (edit: the guns ofc) isn't relevant for tanking when its much bigger than that of a lar2 so i guess you just like to talk out of your ass.
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kessah
Blood Corsair's Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:52:00 -
[34]
Edited by: kessah on 17/03/2008 17:55:46
Wu Jiun are you on crac or summin? your editing my thread out of context and adding it crap to make your point more valid? -ive not even quoted or acknowledged you at all in my thread and your acting like a freaking reto on crac.
Honestly go and start flames elsewhere. Can never have a sensible debate on these bloody forums.
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NightmareX
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:06:00 -
[35]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/03/2008 18:14:32
Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 17/03/2008 17:55:46
Wu Jiun are you on crac or summin? your editing my thread out of context and adding it crap to make your point more valid? -ive not even quoted or acknowledged you at all in my thread and your acting like a freaking reto on crac.
Honestly go and start flames elsewhere. Can never have a sensible debate on these bloody forums.
Not only that, Wu Jiun is a 4 month old newb in an NPC corp. He don't even know how to use a Tempest.
I'm a very experienced Tempest pilot, and i KNOW that the Tempest need a little boost to be in comparsion to the other bs'es.
And it's just plain wrong that the Raven has more armor than the Tempest have. Tempest is the armor tanker, and Maelstrom is the shield tanker for Minmatar BS'es.
CCP, fix my forum portrait goddamnit. |
Twin blade
The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Twin blade It sort of remove's nerf's the maelstorm in a PVE role and given how i like it to mission run when low on isk i am not to happy to lose a great boost bonus for a tiny hp buffer.
Still the maelstorm is caldari at hart could not be closer to caldari ship building if it was to be built by them.
I think the tempest is all ways going to be an odd ball tweak it a tiny bit and it might be overpowerd or underpowerd like it is now.
?
how is the maelstorm "caldari at heart"? because of the shield boost bonus? the same shield boost bonus that only the minmatar have?
On the maelstorm release, many were the ones that predicted that the 'storm would make the tempest obsolete.
many options were presented at the time, one of those was to pretty much increase the agility of the tempest and give the same bonuses I said to the maelstorm (5% dmg + 10% shield HP), wich would make the tempest a very agile multipurpose ship, and still remain the most damaging of the 3 minmatar BS'es (in normal conditions), while the maelstorm would be the supreme king of alpha strike (atm an apoc/abbadon with 1400's does the same alpha as the 'storm, and even the tempest), with 8 dmg bonused turrets and big shields to sustain punishment.
they decided instead to use the "cyclone" approach and make it a fat bastard of the minmatar battleship design offsprings, giving an AC bonus to a ship that lacks agility, for minmatar standards.
Caldari ships Heavy mass Poor agility Heavy shield tanker's and last of all slow as hell the maelstorm fits every one of them.
Minmatar ships Light Mass fairly good agility Light/heavy armor tanks with a few light shield tankers and last of all fast maelstorm fits none.
It was clear the maelstorm would destroy the role of the tempest when we first able to see the stat's.
I don't agree with the new bonus you want to give the maelstorm to alter it's role form the tempest the ROF bonus once removed will lower the dps by 33%.
The 25% more damage means little unless its used as a fleet sniper given how burst damage is now kind of worthless given the HP boost patch unless your using afair number of sniper's. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:46:00 -
[37]
ive been flying minmatar battleships for about 7 months straight and i can say without a doubt that tempest needs some love.
typhoon is a much better solo boat with its ability to go from a high dps torp/ac boat to a support role using torps/nuets/remote reps. its high agility and speed makes it ideal for tackling or bailing when the fight turns sour. lets not dare even speak of the 175m3 drone bay with waves of ogre2s and still enough room for 5xwarrior2s
maelstrom snipes infinitely better if you have the isk to spend and as a fleet AC boat, nothing beats this close ranged beast. do i need to mention the fact it has the best non-capital tank? well, i guess i just did.
ive slowly gotten rid of all my tempests and now i have a hangar full of phoons and maels.
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Polinus
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:49:00 -
[38]
It does not matter if tempest is or is not close range. The issue is you were comparing it with a close range fitting, against a very bad close range battleship and using that to declare that tempest don't suck. Its completely out of logic!
Ok tempest matches the horrible close range apoc at close range. and is completely outclassed by the apoc at range. That shows nothing even close as a reasoning to say tempest is a good ship!
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 19:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Twin blade The 25% more damage means little unless its used as a fleet sniper given how burst damage is now kind of worthless given the HP boost patch unless your using afair number of sniper's.
Edit i forgot the caldari ships got a agility boost so i guess there agility should be ranked as ok now.
Altho it was mitigated with the HP boost, alpha damage is still useful, and a shield HP bonus (50% more when with minmatar BS 5), ensures that you use the 10 turrets worth of alpha strike to it's full extent. ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Twin blade
The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Twin blade The 25% more damage means little unless its used as a fleet sniper given how burst damage is now kind of worthless given the HP boost patch unless your using afair number of sniper's.
Edit i forgot the caldari ships got a agility boost so i guess there agility should be ranked as ok now.
Altho it was mitigated with the HP boost, alpha damage is still useful, and a shield HP bonus (50% more when with minmatar BS 5), ensures that you use the 10 turrets worth of alpha strike to it's full extent.
I still think its going to weaken the maelstorm to much to make it worth using at any thing but part of a fleet small gangs would not have much use for it.
The maelstorm hads like 11k shields ish with max skills so a 50% bonus is only 16.5k shield's not much more of a buffer still on the good side it won't make a drake style passive tank.
The maelstorm might need to be changed a little to help give the tempest a role of its own and not have both filling the same role's as they do now.
To be fair more agility and maybe a 7.5% damage bonus on the tempest would give it a tiny 12.5% boost so T2 800's with emp would go form 517 to 581 dps.
note i am poor at best when working out dps so i could be way off there but it seems balanced to me if maybe a small ammout of PG was removed to make it a AC boat.
The slots on the tempest are odd why i would like it to be a better armor tanker i do not want to give it 7 lows and give it the tank of a typhoon/Mega or another mid to make it a shield tanker like the maelstorm. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Twin blade I still think its going to weaken the maelstorm to much to make it worth using at any thing but part of a fleet small gangs would not have much use for it.
well, tbh it's very hard to shoehorn the ****** that is the maelstrom in any sort of small-scale gang warfare atm, specially considering all the other 3 tier3 BS'es, wich are more suited for fleet warfare.
well, all but except the hyperion, wich is more suited as a blaster platform than a rail platform. in this case we should really compare it with the 'thron. ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Reatu Krentor
Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:51:00 -
[42]
credit to sarmaul for this idea(though mildly modified here)
Tempest Mk. II 7 high; 5 turrets, 4 launchers 6 mid 6 low -2500/2550 grid, -30 cpu (about 1 howitzer worth of grid/cpu, after bonuses) => ~13000Mw/520tf +743 armor hp, -743 hull => 6954 shield/ 6954 armor/ 5898 hull 10% projectile damage bonus and 5% projectile rate of fire bonus per level.(same volley+dps as before)
Uses a little less ammo then current pest but same dps, main boost is the extra midslot creating the option to go shield tank. Extra mid slot creates many options that aren't available currently for the pest. The bigger damage bonus might seem unfair but it is there to compensate for the lower amount of bonused weapons then similar tier 2 turret ships(5 vs. 7-8). Perhaps some minor changes to mass and/or velocity could help it as well. -- stuff -- |
Reatu Krentor
Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:54:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Twin blade I still think its going to weaken the maelstorm to much to make it worth using at any thing but part of a fleet small gangs would not have much use for it.
well, tbh it's very hard to shoehorn the ****** that is the maelstrom in any sort of small-scale gang warfare atm, specially considering all the other 3 tier3 BS'es, wich are more suited for fleet warfare.
well, all but except the hyperion, wich is more suited as a blaster platform than a rail platform. in this case we should really compare it with the 'thron.
damage bonus instead of rate of fire bonus on maelstrom I would love ♥♥♥. Don't know for sure what to do about the shield boost bonus, perhaps extend the shield boost bonus to shield extenders(like make it +7.5% bonus to shield booster boost amount and shield extender bonus hp). -- stuff -- |
Twin blade
The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:00:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Twin blade I still think its going to weaken the maelstorm to much to make it worth using at any thing but part of a fleet small gangs would not have much use for it.
well, tbh it's very hard to shoehorn the ****** that is the maelstrom in any sort of small-scale gang warfare atm, specially considering all the other 3 tier3 BS'es, wich are more suited for fleet warfare.
well, all but except the hyperion, wich is more suited as a blaster platform than a rail platform. in this case we should really compare it with the 'thron.
You just got me thinking.
Why are we trying to change the Tempest's role by the maelstorm its going to be easyer to alter the maelstorms role.
First we could remove ALOT of mass boost its agility and maybe a small boost to its base speed then remove around 2k base PG turning it in to a AC ship.
That way it can be a good small gang ship and if you wanted could still be a sniper but need a PDS or RCU. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Karenzi
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:02:00 -
[45]
leave my maelstrom alone, its my favorite ship. change the tempest without touching the mael please!
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Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:27:00 -
[46]
Taking the RoF bonus from the maelstrom is stupid. The Maelstrom is an active tanker, it is a ship born to fight at close range. Additionally it is a good ship it doesn't need any change.
Now back to the tempest. It is already largely used as a sniper. One possible solution would be to make it better at this role.
My suggestion:
- Take away the RoF bonus. - Give it a 5% projectile damage bonus per level and a 5% artillery damage bonus per level. - Give it an additional turret hardpoint
You will have:
Compared with the current dps the new tempest would have:
1) (1.25 / 1.33) * 1.166 = 1.096 of its dps for artillery 2) (1/1.33) * 1.096 = 0.875 of its current dps for autocannons 3) 1.25 of its current alpha
That would make it an excelent long range alpha striker at the cost of its already curently mediocre close combat capabilities.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
AstroPhobic
STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Taking the RoF bonus from the maelstrom is stupid. The Maelstrom is an active tanker, it is a ship born to fight at close range. Additionally it is a good ship it doesn't need any change.
Now back to the tempest. It is already largely used as a sniper. One possible solution would be to make it better at this role.
My suggestion:
- Take away the RoF bonus. - Give it a 5% projectile damage bonus per level and a 5% artillery damage bonus per level. - Give it an additional turret hardpoint
You will have:
Compared with the current dps the new tempest would have:
1) (1.25 / 1.33) * 1.166 = 1.096 of its dps for artillery 2) (1/1.33) * 1.096 = 0.875 of its current dps for autocannons 3) 1.25 of its current alpha
That would make it an excelent long range alpha striker at the cost of its already curently mediocre close combat capabilities.
There's no existing ships ingame that have a bonus to just a single weapon type from the race.
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Reatu Krentor
Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.03.17 21:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Taking the RoF bonus from the maelstrom is stupid. The Maelstrom is an active tanker, it is a ship born to fight at close range. Additionally it is a good ship it doesn't need any change.
That's the beauty imo, if you do change the RoF bonus to a damage bonus, the maelstrom loses a total of 6.25% in dps... but on the flip side it uses 25% less ammo for it and with artillery it is the volley master it should be with artillery, to fullfill it's intended fleet role(right now, the abaddon is a measly 7% behind in volley damage excluding ammo differences).
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Now back to the tempest. It is already largely used as a sniper. One possible solution would be to make it better at this role.
Tempest is superior sniper because it is only 6.25% behind in dps and alpha but doesn't need 8 turrets for it, leaving 2 high slots open for neat utility things, on top of which it is also cheaper to buy itself as well as not "wasting" a bonus on a useless bonus for sniping work.
-- stuff -- |
Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Taking the RoF bonus from the maelstrom is stupid. The Maelstrom is an active tanker, it is a ship born to fight at close range. Additionally it is a good ship it doesn't need any change.
but that's the point.
the tempest, before the maelstorm, was the ultimate AC ship, and pretty much topped with the 'thron as the 2 best fleet ships.
it worked both on the long range and short range brackets, making it multi-purpose BS.
then the maelstorm came, a ship that was clearly designed for fleet (read long range engagements) with it's ginormous mass and low speed and agility, and they slapped bonuses suited for short range engagements.
But back to the tempest.
want to make it a truely multipurpose ship? just shave mass out of it and increase agility.
done.
Originally by: Twin blade You just got me thinking.
Why are we trying to change the Tempest's role by the maelstorm its going to be easyer to alter the maelstorms role.
First we could remove ALOT of mass boost its agility and maybe a small boost to its base speed then remove around 2k base PG turning it in to a AC ship.
That way it can be a good small gang ship and if you wanted could still be a sniper but need a PDS or RCU.
well, the problem is that while the tier3 BS'es were a welcome addition, the only BS that really had a role to fill in was the Rohk, since caldari lacked a BS rail platform.
"fixing" the roles of the tier3's might actually breathe some new life into the tier2's, specially in the minmatar BS department where the maelstrom pretty much adds "more of the same" making the tempest rather obsolete in both AC and howie platforms.
it's not that much noticed on amarr, now that the apoc was fixed, but in the case of hyperion vs megathron there is still this feeling of the hype being "more of the same", altho in a somewhat different flavour. In this case I also prefer a refinement on both the thron's and hype's stats and bonuses so that they actually cover more distinct places.
the maelstorm's 8 turret with RoF bonus also shows that the abbadon, the apoc, the rohk and the hyperion can both do the same volley damage with 1400's as the maelstrom, a ship that belongs to the race that actually has ships designed for alpha strikes.
kinda odd huh? ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.03.17 22:47:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 17/03/2008 22:54:38
How about altering the Maelstrom to a damage bonus and boosting the damage mod on large autocannons so that in the end the Mael gets the exact same DPS and the Auto-Pest gets a small damage increase? At the same time I would give the Pest a larger drone bay, 100m3 or possibly 125m3. THAT should make it a competitive ship.
Alternatively you could swap Mael and Pest drone bays, and give the general large AC damage increase. Pest gains, Mael gains gun DPS but loses drone DPS.
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Twin blade
The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.17 23:56:00 -
[51]
Grimpak to be fair the player's told ccp what was needed and posted what we wanted ALOT but ccp did as they like and screwed up.
The hyperion is a great blaster ship and other than the rokh did the role people wanted it maybe not the slot lay our or bonu's tho.
The abaddon was badly wanted as a drone ship no sure why but given the look of the ship ccp wanted it as one as well then stoped and made it a apoc geddon mix.
The rokh great ship filled the role people wanted it and is a fairly good blaster ship.
The maelstorm was beged to be a close range AC ship but they made it do a mix of both and so slaped the tempest out of any real use other than been a weaker and cheaper version.
I don't trust CCP to fix the ships any time soon or even do what is needed i mean look at our carrier only needed 75 more CPU but they moved a mid to a low to make it an armor tanker WHY. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.18 02:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/03/2008 02:38:21 Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 18/03/2008 02:36:14
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Taking the RoF bonus from the maelstrom is stupid. The Maelstrom is an active tanker, it is a ship born to fight at close range. Additionally it is a good ship it doesn't need any change.
but that's the point.
the tempest, before the maelstorm, was the ultimate AC ship, and pretty much topped with the 'thron as the 2 best fleet ships.
it worked both on the long range and short range brackets, making it multi-purpose BS.
then the maelstorm came, a ship that was clearly designed for fleet (read long range engagements) with it's ginormous mass and low speed and agility, and they slapped bonuses suited for short range engagements.
No ship with an ACTIVE tanking bonus is designed for fleet. The Maelstrom is a close range ship that CAN be used as long range, in the same way the Hyperion can. It really shines in close range though, as the Hyperion.
On the other hand the Tempest is an excelent sniper, it is agile so it can warp in and out and position itself easier. I really think it should be focused on this role while leaving the close range to the maelstrom.
The mass and agility are not that relevant. Abaddons and Hyperions are also heavy but shine at close range.
Quote:
But back to the tempest.
want to make it a truely multipurpose ship? just shave mass out of it and increase agility.
done.
Agility, although having its uses, doesn't help much in a battleship.
Quote:
the maelstorm's 8 turret with RoF bonus also shows that the abbadon, the apoc, the rohk and the hyperion can both do the same volley damage with 1400's as the maelstrom, a ship that belongs to the race that actually has ships designed for alpha strikes.
kinda odd huh?
Please, do not try to fix what is not broken. The Maelstrom is a great close range ship. Just leave it as it is and change the Tempest into a better sniper and worse skirmisher.
The Typhoon and the Maelstrom are good enough for close range. We don't need ANOTHER ship in the same role in the same way Amarr didn't need another inferior gank ship in the form of the Apocalypse.
The Tempest can be made into something useful with a clear role this way.
Originally by: AstroPhobic
There's no existing ships ingame that have a bonus to just a single weapon type from the race.
I suggest you look at almost all Khanid ships. And even if there wasn't, so what? Until it was changed the Apocalypse was the ONLY ship in the game with a cap size bonus.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Vanessa Vale
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.18 04:09:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Twin blade
Edit i forgot the caldari ships got a agility boost so i guess there agility should be ranked as ok now.
Go check the final agility of caldari battleships and then compare with the agility of minmatar battleships. You might be in for a little surprise
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Grimpak
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.18 07:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Twin blade The maelstorm was beged to be a close range AC ship but they made it do a mix of both and so slaped the tempest out of any real use other than been a weaker and cheaper version.
was?
I remember that bar the rohk, everything was decided in stone way before the release of the ships in public, and not matter how much we begged and screamed, the ships remained the same.
I remember the 30+ page thread in the GD forum, where I actively participated, and I only remember the only consessions that CCP made was to increase the myrm's drone bay from 100 to 125m3, and our concerns about releasing a ship that lacked agility for the bonuses it had and the (afaik) general consensus about giving dmg + shield HP bonus to the maelstrom.
Let's not talk about the Seleene's talk to the devs in the FF that made the 'cane lost it's 7th turret like it was on the test server, because it was one of those things that made me totally miffed about it (...and I still haven't forgive you about it, Seleene)
oh and the hype is not that great of a Blaster ship, and that comes from a guy that prefers the hype to the megathron. ---
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Etho Demerzel
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.03.18 08:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grimpak
oh and the hype is not that great of a Blaster ship, and that comes from a guy that prefers the hype to the megathron.
The hyperion has more damage and more tank than the mega. It lacks the tracking bonus and the superior agility of the mega, given, but it has superior capability to keep itself alive in any occasion where the active tank can play a role (yes, if it is focused by 20 ships the bonus is quite useless).
It has its niche in close combat. If you are fighting mostly battleships it will be better than the mega. If you have a lot of smaller ships on the other side the mega outperforms it. So you can say it is a heavy blaster. That is the main role it was desined for.
It performs quite well in sniping too because of its damage bonus and the full hack of guns as well as the extra medium slots.
The Tempest on the other hand, won't ever be a good skirmish battleship when compared to the other minmatar options. You have the heavy tanker AC platform in the form of the maelstrom, and the agile and flexible battleship in the form of the typhoon.
It has been sucessfully used as a sniper for a long time now but with the advent of the Tier 3 battleships it got obsolete somehow in this role too. If CCP focus the Tempest in that role it will have one thing at least it does well. And a justification for its existence.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.03.18 09:02:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 18/03/2008 09:05:28
Originally by: Grimpak
want to make it a truely multipurpose ship? just shave mass out of it and increase agility.
done.
This.
In my view, two things would be very welcome on the Tempest.
1) Better agility. It would be much more useful in general if it had better agility. If a non-plated Tempest could get the agility of the Typhoon with a single 1600mm RT slapped on (at worst), it would be a much better ship all around. Particularly for close range engagements where it could get to its preffered range easier and faster.
2) Shield/Armour HP switch. Being quite centered towards armour tanking (and generally more fragile then the other armour tanking BS), switching the Tempest from 6954 shield / 6211 armour base to 6211 shield/6954 armour base (which would make final armour HP 8692 instead of 7764 after skills, while lowering the shield HP) would help it take damage slightly better.
If the outright switch gives it 'too much' armour (as it would have somewhat more then the Mega that way), then a partial switch (such as 6554 shield / 6611 armour base) would help as well.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Shaemell Buttleson
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.18 09:55:00 -
[57]
Grimpak is right.
I've been flying Pests for years now and think it would make more sense for changes to be made so the Mael would be used as a sniper platorm and the Pest as an agile AC boat.
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Alak D'bor
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.18 10:08:00 -
[58]
The game development forum is >>>> that way. This is ships in mods, i.e. discussions on how to fit ships as currently implemented on TQ. Unfortunately I've reported you to the mods.
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Twin blade
The Triangle Exa Nation
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Posted - 2008.03.18 10:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Grimpak
oh and the hype is not that great of a Blaster ship, and that comes from a guy that prefers the hype to the megathron.
The hyperion has more damage and more tank than the mega. It lacks the tracking bonus and the superior agility of the mega, given, but it has superior capability to keep itself alive in any occasion where the active tank can play a role (yes, if it is focused by 20 ships the bonus is quite useless).
It has its niche in close combat. If you are fighting mostly battleships it will be better than the mega. If you have a lot of smaller ships on the other side the mega outperforms it. So you can say it is a heavy blaster. That is the main role it was desined for.
It performs quite well in sniping too because of its damage bonus and the full hack of guns as well as the extra medium slots.
The Tempest on the other hand, won't ever be a good skirmish battleship when compared to the other minmatar options. You have the heavy tanker AC platform in the form of the maelstrom, and the agile and flexible battleship in the form of the typhoon.
It has been sucessfully used as a sniper for a long time now but with the advent of the Tier 3 battleships it got obsolete somehow in this role too. If CCP focus the Tempest in that role it will have one thing at least it does well. And a justification for its existence.
Yer i was kind of mad the Cane lost a turret for no reason.
I agree the hype is a great heavy blaster ship i do find it better than the mega but this is coming form fighting them not flying the ship my self(i can but don't).
I think the Tempest needs to be the sniper and the maelstorm the AC close range ship but both need a small boost to fill them role's.
Vanessa Vale i just checked for the first time how big of a boost caldari man i belive it needs a nerf or most of the minmatar BS need a boost its just not right for our ships to lose out there. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Nubswarm001
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 11:08:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Nubswarm001 on 18/03/2008 11:07:57
Originally by: Alak D'bor The game development forum is >>>> that way. This is ships in mods, i.e. discussions on how to fit ships as currently implemented on TQ. Unfortunately I've reported you to the mods.
have a cookie
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