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Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 09:57:00 -
[1]
Hi all,
Having Returned to the EVE universe after a long period away, I notice that a lot of things have changed, some for the good, some for the bad (depending on which end of the hammer you are on) my question is around suicide squads, and what type of player is more at risk from attack and what players can do to lesson the risk.
For instance, I want to shift a load of gear around empire. What is the safest way to do this now? Do I use an Inty? Or a Battleship with loads of Cargo Expanders? I Guess I am only at risk whilst warping from Gates, if I had a Tanked BS would this give Concord enough time to kill the Suicide Squad?
I guess I am looking for advice on how you transfer large amounts of gear around Empire now without being killed. Not sure if I agree to the ease of such tactics, but I guess the EVE universe evolves, and with that evolution new tactics are employed. Fair play to those who make a living out of doing this, I just want to know hoe best to lesson the risk of it happening to me :)
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Nodnol 178Selim
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.17 10:07:00 -
[2]
Don't AFK haul, and make use of Warp to Zero.
I've heard that CNRs have been suicided, so if there's anough value in it, I guess anything can be taken down.
I haul in a heavily tanked Impel and have yet to be attacked. Then again I haven't got much in the way of goods and generally only fill it with Helium Isotopes so it's only got about 30 mill ISK inside.
Not worth the risk / reward tradeoff for ganking me I guess. I reckon it would be a different story if I were in an Itty 5.
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Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 10:13:00 -
[3]
The way i thought about doing it (and I am not posting wit my main for obvious reasons) is to have a Nighthawk with Cargo Expanders given me 2000 of space, then a load of Passive shields. I am assuming that fitted out with T2 Missile Launchers would be enough to keep all but the most determined gank squad off my back?
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Tzar'rim
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2008.03.17 10:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 17/03/2008 10:34:14
It's very simple.
- Calculate the actual worth of your cargo (take into account that if you're moving BPC's people might mistakingly in their haste take them for PBO's).
- determine how many cheaply fitted Dommies/Ravens/other ships are needed to gank you in the 10-20 seconds they have before CONCORD pwns them and put a pricetag on that (take into account the insurance reimbursement).
- if your worth is about twice their cost you could get ganked, if your worth far exceeds twice their cost you WILL get ganked.
So while one way of doing it would be to see how big of a tank you could fit just remember that anything can get ganked. So the best solution is not to put all your eggs in one basket, ie make multiple trips if your cargo gets expensive.
Passive tanked Scorp is an option, sometimes an interceptor or a covert is an option. But always, ALWAYS fly manually. Or just use a T2 hauler or freighter, as long as you keep remembering about the cargo worth. So the best answer is to do multiple trips making sure your worth is low.
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Sha4d13
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 10:33:00 -
[5]
Just do the calculations. Work out what it would take to kill your ship in 2 or 3 volleys- ie 2 Brutix can probably take down your untanked hauler very easily before concord show. Brutixs costs x Isk- plus fittings. Dont haul something worth much more than what it would take to suicide you.
Use an inty for small valuable stuff- and dont autopilot.
Keep your eyes open- if someone is following / tracking you, or theres an obvious scout sitting on a gate- think twice before jumping.
If its really valuable- use an alt scout to check the way is clear.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.17 10:47:00 -
[6]
a change of carreer?
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
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Thornat
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:00:00 -
[7]
The reports of Gank Squads have been severly blown out of proportion and while they do exist they are pretty rare and the ones that do hunt do some in high traffic areas like Jita.
The easiest way to avoid Gank squads is to simply not go to high traffic areas, I mean that reduce your odds of running into one to insignificant lottery like odds.
As for how gank squads work, in essence they simply calculate what you are carrying to how much they will loose in trying to kill you and if the math supports it they roll the dice. Generaly speaking gank squads function on a 'I hope we get lucky' system as there is no guarantee that by killing an expensive target that he will drop anything of value. In fact from the few people I know that have done it or know people who do it, despite the claims on the forum these groups function under some pretty heavy losses in the long run for the most part.
I have heard of successful gank squads taking out a obelisk freighter, but its worth noting that the large majority of PvPers lie about how much isk they make and don't make pirating, ganking and generaly pvping making any source unreliable at best. Its a lot of 'look how big my D*** is' macho stuff that amounts to nothing but a lot of trash talking doing absolutly nothing for anyone except the all mighty CCP isk leaky bucket syndrome where billions of isk vanish into thin air daily.
In short gank squads=nothing to worry about
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AKULA UrQuan
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:03:00 -
[8]
-Don't use auto pilot
-Stay off the main travel routes
-scout the flight path first in a shuttle, or better yet, have a semi-smart buddy fly 1-2 jumps ahead.
-Learn to pick out the sound of a running cargo scanner from the background noise.
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Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:03:00 -
[9]
Thanks All. Some very useful information being posted.
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.17 11:19:00 -
[10]
I thought suicide ganking always existed in Eve, from the very beginning. Or so I've been rold.
(And they are actually pretty rare and easy to avoid.)
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:03:00 -
[11]
a nanoed iteron V will warp faster than any cargo scanner I can scan you...
no lockie, no shootie
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
CRUSH BOSS
BigMek Industries
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:09:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Deathstick
The way i thought about doing it (and I am not posting wit my main for obvious reasons) is to have a Nighthawk with Cargo Expanders given me 2000 of space, then a load of Passive shields. I am assuming that fitted out with T2 Missile Launchers would be enough to keep all but the most determined gank squad off my back?
LOL .... and LOL
We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango |
Hornymatt
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I thought suicide ganking always existed in Eve, from the very beginning. Or so I've been rold.
(And they are actually pretty rare and easy to avoid.)
I remember suicide cruise kessies loitering around some of the more popular trade gates, quick to train new alts when sec rating got too low.
For a while CCP wanted to make it an exploit that you couldn't "profit" from suicide ganking but it was impossible to determine if a hauler picking up loot was linked to the ganker, a friend of the gankee helping out or just some opportunist passing by, so it was changed to not being allowed to escape the wrath of Cocnord, although the insurance matter remains an issue for some.
Quite often see ganks on the well worn paths from Hek to Luminaire and Jita to Luminaire, most important thing, as alraedy stated, is to use wtz and not haul afk if you have anytihng of value. And maybe fill up any spare cargo space with junk so it takes longer for someone to detremine if you're carrying anything of value when they scan you.
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Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 13:09:00 -
[14]
Once again Thanks guys
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Ultra Cannibis
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.17 14:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ultra Cannibis on 17/03/2008 14:05:47
Heres another quick Tip!
Most suicide Gankers are pretty Well known (Goonswarm for instance...but everybody should have them set Red anyways) Set your personal Standings to those corps as Terrible and then in your overview set those "Reds" to Flashing.
If your Scout flies into system and theres a bunch of flashing Ravens at the Gate you can pretty much bet that they're not there to to say "aloha" and give you a lei. (though you will probably get Screwed if you cargo is valuable enough) Eve-Tribune also has a nice article on the is subject (Last week I think).
The Cake is a Lie |
Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 14:25:00 -
[16]
Thanks Ultra
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Shanur
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 14:59:00 -
[17]
A good strategy is to use your freighter only to get NEAR the trade hub you want to do business with, taking great care to avoid any systems you see recent ship kills in (while these may be missioners, it could be gankcamps). Once you get near enough that shuttling back and forth a few times doesn't become an insane grind, switch to a T2 hauler. Both have merit. A blockade runner will be unlikely to be tackled in time due to its built in WCS and fast aligning, while a deep space transport has a formidable tank, seriously cranking up the cost to gank you. See which works best for the goods you intend to ship. |
Zerena Draco
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.17 15:06:00 -
[18]
Guide for suicide gank ...
Buy a Hauler fill upp the cargohold
with the most expensive you can think of
implants, Officer stuff etc the more expensive the
more dmg you gonna do...
Close in to your target and when you are at 1km distance press self destruct...
Heard this was the official guide that suicide corps use to teach their new recruits...
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Sha4d13
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 15:43:00 -
[19]
Ultra- that is an extremely dangerous strategy unless you are a player who would never ever fight back...
Flashing red usually denotes a target upon which you can safely fire without concord interference (ie a pirate with aggro). If i see flashy red on my overview- I know I can shoot at it...
If you are utterly carebear in your approach then fine- just a word of caution!
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Arvald
Southern Cross Incorporated
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 15:46:00 -
[20]
your post title reminded me of this 
and to awnser your question dont autopilot, keep your eyes open and (wont save you every time) dont carry loads tha tare worth insane ammounts of isk in a paper thin ship ( i prefer the cargo expanded and shield extended geddon )
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Meridius Dex
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 17/03/2008 10:34:14
It's very simple.
- Calculate the actual worth of your cargo (take into account that if you're moving BPC's people might mistakingly in their haste take them for PBO's).
- determine how many cheaply fitted Dommies/Ravens/other ships are needed to gank you in the 10-20 seconds they have before CONCORD pwns them and put a pricetag on that (take into account the insurance reimbursement).
- if your worth is about twice their cost you could get ganked, if your worth far exceeds twice their cost you WILL get ganked.
So while one way of doing it would be to see how big of a tank you could fit just remember that anything can get ganked. So the best solution is not to put all your eggs in one basket, ie make multiple trips if your cargo gets expensive.
Passive tanked Scorp is an option, sometimes an interceptor or a covert is an option. But always, ALWAYS fly manually. Or just use a T2 hauler or freighter, as long as you keep remembering about the cargo worth. So the best answer is to do multiple trips making sure your worth is low.
Tzar'rim, do you have a thumbnail number you like to use, per spotted suicide gank ship, to determine if they might attack (ie, how much those cheapie Domi/Ravens cost)?
I have an alt that I'm currently training for freighters and have had a number of second thoughts on the matter (it's an enormous investment of time and ISK). I realize that a freighter in high sec is a good deal safer than other haulers, but the utter absence of slots make me nervous that the 140K of effective hit points will not be enough to survive a ganking (I am deeply psychologically scarred by much zero sec fighting, wherein BSs with those numbers often melt very quickly).
And here's a question that just occurred to me. How do suicide gankers evaluate courier targets? I've never couriered myself, but have contracted out several to others - without loss. If a courier package (of any size) is a faceless item with no way to identify it's contents, how do suicide gankers make their decision to attack or not? Do they ever attack couriers? If Meridius Dex courier contracts a faction battleship to his freighter alt, than all that will be visible in the cargo hold is a 50,000 m3 package, yes?
--
Meridius Dex
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Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Deathstick
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 16:18:00 -
[22]
Some interesting comments. I am assuming I can hire someone to do the transportation? If so how do I find reputable people to do it? What kind of cost for 22 Jumps in total?
I'm not saying I will take this route, just evaluating my options.
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Meridius Dex
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Deathstick
Some interesting comments. I am assuming I can hire someone to do the transportation? If so how do I find reputable people to do it? What kind of cost for 22 Jumps in total?
I'm not saying I will take this route, just evaluating my options.
This is almost impossible to determine without looking over all the courier contracts in a given area and judging averages. It seems that (for most cheap stuff) 100K per jump is used, while I've also noticed that contracts that offer a reward equal to 3% of the collateral amount are the ones most quickly picked up.
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Meridius Dex
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Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
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