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Antiscam Contract option ? (Hope CCP considers this option)

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Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.20 01:31:00 - [1] Would be nice to have an option to hide/show BPCs. I haven't been scammed yet but getting too annoying to option tens of contracts just close them again as scams. SO, set the price range as available now with any search parameter as currently on contracts and only add the show/hide BPC option. What does everyone think ?
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.20 02:57:00 - [2] I believe CCP have stated reasons why they cannot separate the two. People have kicked up a stink in the past about bpc's looking the same as bpo's, asking for graphical differences so they can be differentiated. Anyway CCP basically said this would not be possible as it would mean the DB would need to load all bpo information before anyone actually clicked on it. So ie if you opened your hangar and had 200 bpo/bpcs in there (even if not using them) the DB would still need to load each one and it's stats to determine which were BPC/BPO. In current form all bpo's have the same graphical representation so they only need to be loaded when clicked on individually. This was the excuse given by CCP last time I saw it asked about 1.5 years ago.
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.21 23:16:00 - [3] So, if there is no solution you are damned to sift through all the scams and you are damned if you get scammed .. Another solution is to have an account banned from posting on contracts if, lets say, 20-30 individuals click on a "scam" button on one contract, no trial accounts can post.
Martosh Toma Fraction Investment	Posted - 2008.03.22 06:57:00 - [4] you can already block a seller for contracts. (i know the scammers get recycled every now and then) or, get your own bpo to make copies yourself
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.03.22 08:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Heavan So, if there is no solution you are damned to sift through all the scams and you are damned if you get scammed .. Another solution is to have an account banned from posting on contracts if, lets say, 20-30 individuals click on a "scam" button on one contract, no trial accounts can post. So you're saying that any alliance or medium sized corp could ban anyone from listing contracts by all clicking "scam" on someone? Obviously a well thought out plan you have there. How about you use the IGNORE button to ignore scammers. If you run out of ignore slots then that is something worth complaining about... I ran out long ago and it's quite annoying.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.03.22 10:11:00 - [6] Well, if you really want a technical solution, just go through and change all BPC's to a different object ID. Right now, a (packaged) BPO is just the base object ID. Let's say you have a 10MN Afterburner I BPO, and let's say the object ID for such a BPO is "12". At it stands now, if you then do some research on that BPO, or in any way cause it to become unpackaged, it'll acquire an item ID, and thereafter it'll be "12/123456", where "123456" is its unique item ID. This allows the client to load item #12 and see it's a 10MN Afterburner I blueprint of some description, and gives it a pointer of how to ask the database for more information about it. Now, the issue arises because a BPC created from "12/123456" will be "12/456789". The client reads it as object ID #12, with specific-item ID #456789. Putting 123456 and 456789 side-by-side, without querying the server, there's no way for the client to tell them apart. The solution is simple. At downtime, run a script similar to the following: UPDATE blueprint_inventory_view SET object_id=13 WHERE object_id=12 AND is_original=false; Roll out a client update with new pictures for the new object ID's, correct any wonkiness that crops up elsewhere, and tada, you're done. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Kazzac Elentria Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2008.03.22 19:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Shadarle How about you use the IGNORE button to ignore scammers. If you run out of ignore slots then that is something worth complaining about... I ran out long ago and it's quite annoying. This... all I ask for are more ignore slots please.
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.23 00:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Shadarle So you're saying that any alliance or medium sized corp could ban anyone from listing contracts by all clicking "scam" on someone? Obviously a well thought out plan you have there. How about you use the IGNORE button to ignore scammers. If you run out of ignore slots then that is something worth complaining about... I ran out long ago and it's quite annoying. Limited number of slots with endless number of scammers. As for a medium sized corp or an alliance banning someone from contracts for something legit would fall under harassment and should be petitionable. The old contract system got over burdened with scams and its no different with the current one. With more accounts in Eve this problem will never go away and a system needs to be implemented for this.
Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.23 03:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Heavan Originally by: Shadarle So you're saying that any alliance or medium sized corp could ban anyone from listing contracts by all clicking "scam" on someone? Obviously a well thought out plan you have there. How about you use the IGNORE button to ignore scammers. If you run out of ignore slots then that is something worth complaining about... I ran out long ago and it's quite annoying. Limited number of slots with endless number of scammers. As for a medium sized corp or an alliance banning someone from contracts for something legit would fall under harassment and should be petitionable. The old contract system got over burdened with scams and its no different with the current one. With more accounts in Eve this problem will never go away and a system needs to be implemented for this. Great idea, lets add more burden to the already overloaded petition system! Brilliant! How about you just use your brain and don't let yourself get scammed. If you fall for an Item Exchange or Auction contract scam you deserve to be scammed. Scamming is not against the TOS/EULA nor should it be. He who eats marbles shouldn't grow up to have kids of his own. He who gets scammed because he cannot see the difference between an original BPO and a copy deserves to be poor and miserable.
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.23 05:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Heavan Originally by: Shadarle So you're saying that any alliance or medium sized corp could ban anyone from listing contracts by all clicking "scam" on someone? Obviously a well thought out plan you have there. How about you use the IGNORE button to ignore scammers. If you run out of ignore slots then that is something worth complaining about... I ran out long ago and it's quite annoying. Limited number of slots with endless number of scammers. As for a medium sized corp or an alliance banning someone from contracts for something legit would fall under harassment and should be petitionable. The old contract system got over burdened with scams and its no different with the current one. With more accounts in Eve this problem will never go away and a system needs to be implemented for this. Great idea, lets add more burden to the already overloaded petition system! Brilliant! How about you just use your brain and don't let yourself get scammed. If you fall for an Item Exchange or Auction contract scam you deserve to be scammed. Scamming is not against the TOS/EULA nor should it be. He who eats marbles shouldn't grow up to have kids of his own. He who gets scammed because he cannot see the difference between an original BPO and a copy deserves to be poor and miserable. First if you are going to add something constructive then do so. Stop being an idiot and read the first post. Yes its called R E A D I N G and you do use your brain for it. Its an annoying part of the game, it wastes time sorting through the contracts. Oh, if it wasn't an irritating part of the game you wouldn't have read this thread in the beginning. Or are you just flamming for the sake of it ?

Shadarle LI0NS Industries	Posted - 2008.03.23 08:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Heavan Wow .. Guess you don't have anything constructive to add ... Garbage in, garbage out. Post something constructive and you'll get a constructive response. Originally by: Heavan Scammers are wasting our time and for those who got scammed their hard earned isk. Which is why I said I want unlimited ignore slots, that's the only solution required. If you still fall for a scam then it's your own fault for being either too lazy, too stupid, or blind. Originally by: Heavan If you are running few scams with some alts then this threatens your prosperity ... Tough .. If I was it is a totally legit way to make money. There is absolutely nothing against scamming. Only if you use a bug in the system to do it is it against the TOS/EULA. Just because you think it's unfair doesn't mean it is something that has to be stopped. If you are mad about being scammed then war-dec the guys corp, pod him, send him a nasty message, or learn to avoid it in the future. That said, I've never once intentionally scammed anyone. I can't say if out of the thousands of contracts I've made that I've never once accidentally added or remove a 0, so perhaps I lost some money or made out some more, I honestly have no clue but I doubt it as I'm generally quite perfect in everything I do. If you are less perfect that's your problem. Originally by: Heavan The current system doesn't work Works nearly perfectly for me. A few tweaks would make it perfect. Sorry that you are unable to use it, not our problem. Come up with a viable solution and I'll be the first to /sign it on the features and ideas forum, but it has to be realistic and not cause extra hassles and annoyances just to fix your inability to read. Originally by: Heavan With over 300 views to this thread I would presume this is a major issue for alot of players ? 300 views is puny. Lots of the threads here have many times that.
Mr Horizontal KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.23 12:38:00 - [12] Technically CCP have no reason for this, especially as the Science & Industry pane has all the filters necessary to split out BPO's and -C's. While it'd require a subquery to view the print to figure out some meta information on the item, there are several items that also require sub queries to view and use. Another one for example is to view the damage on R.A.M. items. Now, the problem stems from the fact that CCP's database is too normalized, instead of actually building in some data duplication to reduce the number of queries at the cost of a little bit more disk usage. Basically either CCP would have to make-do with 2 queries or add a new 'meta info' column on the base item type showing such information. The real reason imo behind this is actually the most typical of all developer traits: laziness. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:25:00 - [13] Shadarle, sorry you don't have anything constructive to add. If the system is bad then its bad. Trying to say something doesn't work and lets forget about it doesn't work. Adding more ignore slots doesn't resolve the issue. You get the ignore slots and I'll settle for a solution to filter out BPCs from BPOs.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:29:00 - [14] Ok Heavan, let me show you something you could have easily found yourself: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/731233/page/1#2 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/725978/page/1#4 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/715520/page/1#19 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/715250/page/1#14 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/712405/page/1#19 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/695568/page/1#7 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/692693/page/1#6 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/683973/page/1#2 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/656616/page/1#4 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/610484/page/1#9 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/602598/page/1#5 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/608253/page/1#1 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/605833/page/1#2 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/599389/page/1#5 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/589997/page/1#1 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/589705/page/1#2 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/585245/page/2#36 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/555881/page/1#1 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/542957/page/1#5 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/536823/page/1#1 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/499687/page/1#4 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/513798/page/1#6 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=83006 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=452885 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=87845&page=8 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=75306 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=434168 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=93945&page=2 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=257821&page=4 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=63651&page=6 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3523&page=856 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=241357&page=2 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=173946
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:31:00 - [15] CCP Comments found: 30/10/04: "Im going to close the petition here guys, I will let the people who need to see it know its here, but im sure they have seen it already! Surprised" 13/07/04: "As was mentioned in the CSM thread, there are a lot of problems changing the color between the BPo and BPc icons. When I got in contact with the graphics department regarding this (and additional icon changes for some guns), I was told that it would be a big resource soak and creator of lag. However, they were looking at different options to specify the difference between the two." 14/07/2004: "It's the nature of blueprints and their copies, the "icons" (to keep it simple) that you see in your hangar are far from being the same thing to our data structure. Blueprints have a far more complex structure than say ... the shield booster module. You can't manufacture from the module, you can't research it, you can't manufacture from it, you can't make chocolate pudding from it either. But you can with a blueprint. Well, maybe not the pudding part, but close. Then we have the limited run blueprints, that are of another type completely. Here comes the problem: Hacking a different color onto the different types so the UI shows without doing the proper groundwork would like ... having a fleetbattle in your hangar everytime you opened it, now multiply that with all the researchers that have eeeendless of copies lying around. The checks, rechecks, selecting and displaying of it in the current state is just not feasible. BUT! We are working towards it, and one day, it will be made so. So say I. I R O. Oh, and btw, please don't start complaining about things that they are not in the CSM - because they were asked just the 7 day before, we like to have some variety in there" 22/07/2004: I'm going off of what they said. And to be honest, I can think of absolutely no reason they would want to "snow job" me. This is an issue that has been raised many times and resolution would make a lot of players happy. If it were as simple as you state it is, don't you think it would've been done a long time ago? Oveur has gone into the reasons why in a couple posts on the first page. As he is in closer contact with the graphic guys and programmers, plus knows the game code, I think he knows what the situation is and why it is not as simple as "Color==clBlue or Color==clOrange". So, you can't say this topic hasn't been brought up before... Get used to it, it hasn't changed for 4 years now, I have given up holding my breath.
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:52:00 - [16] I don't see why a client side solution can't be implemented for contracts. Already when you open a contract it tells you its a copy or original. That way no database mucking needs to be done.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Heavan I don't see why a client side solution can't be implemented for contracts. Already when you open a contract it tells you its a copy or original. That way no database mucking needs to be done. But in a contract it already tells you if its a original or copy with text. Sure, it doesnt when you list trough the contracts. But eve isnt supposed to be 100% safe. If you dont read the small print, its your own fault.
wamingo Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.24 15:06:00 - [18] 1 word: Categories. When you form a new contract you automatically enter into 1 of a few categories depending on the type of object you put in the contract. Categories eg: Multiple Objects BPC BPO etc There, fixed. -- I won't not promise to avoid refraining from harming you! .... What?
Heavan Technology and Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:15:00 - [19] Originally by: LaVista Vista But in a contract it already tells you if its a original or copy with text. Sure, it doesnt when you list trough the contracts. But eve isnt supposed to be 100% safe. If you dont read the small print, its your own fault. If I miss the fine print it is my problem but poor coding isn't. I'd rather sift through 10 contracts I am interested in than 50 contracts of which 40 are scams. The system is flawed. Scammers are allowed to get away which is game mechanics. But when a scammer is caught he shouldn't, now the only solution is to fix contracts one way or the other.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.25 04:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Heavan The system is flawed. Scammers are allowed to get away which is game mechanics. But when a scammer is caught he shouldn't, now the only solution is to fix contracts one way or the other. Check some of the threads I linked. Until that first problem is resolved CCP won't be able to have copies and bpo's distinguished in the system. Unless the person a few posts up is correct, I haven't tried what he said before



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