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The Omen, big issues, Little ship :(

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Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 08:56:00 - [1] Trinity 1.1 brought us the new improved Omen!... sadly, after testing it out with all kinds of fittings, the fact still remains that it does less DPS than the other cruisers of it's tier and still has major fitting issues. The ships was (apparently?) designed as a DPS ship, using lasers to deal out major damage while being able to fit a decent buffer-tank to outlast the onslaught, the traditional "kill before you get killed"-tactic. However, something has to be done about this ship, in it's current state it can neither do a decent DPS compared to the rest of the cruisers, and it certainly isn't the best tank. The biggest issue with the Omen has always been it's lack of both powergrid AND cpu at the same time. This makes it unable to actually fit the modules it was designed to fit (biggest medium lasers?) and removes it's ability to dish out a decent DPS at the same time. I'd REALLY like this ship to get a decent boost, or at least some kind of modification to make it able of performing it's role as a high-DPS brawler. I wish CCP would fix it instead of giving it additional turret-points it can't use anyway...
Lux Exterior Critical Analysis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:03:00 - [2] No, there is no cruiser that can do what you want. Get a battlecruiser if you want to fit top tier guns without fitting mods or gimping your tank. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:03:00 - [3] I think the Omen is meant to use FMPs instead of HPLs. I fitted an omen with a full rack FMP, with 800mm plate and small rep, along with a heat sink and two hardeners. Problem is, it won't tank worth crap, but it puts out decent dmg. So I think it's fine. Thing is, as many have stated, that Amarr's dmg cruiser isn't the higest tier, which leaves it lacking. But hey, it's still a fun ship Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:09:00 - [4] Originally by: Wideen I think the Omen is meant to use FMPs instead of HPLs. I fitted an omen with a full rack FMP, with 800mm plate and small rep, along with a heat sink and two hardeners. Problem is, it won't tank worth crap, but it puts out decent dmg. So I think it's fine. Thing is, as many have stated, that Amarr's dmg cruiser isn't the higest tier, which leaves it lacking. But hey, it's still a fun ship Trus, it IS a fun ship, but it's DPS is just sad, my railgun PvE vexor almost out-DPS it WITHOUT drones! The decent damage is not good enough when it's supposed to put out good damage.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:12:00 - [5] FMP.... you dont see many ruptures whit 425mm ac or thoraxes whit neutron blasters around that can fit a huge buffer tank use smaller weapons.. and it can fit a decent fit.... i cba posting mine again.. its in the other thread somewhere :P ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Alak D'bor Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:46:00 - [6] Off topic -- this isn't game development, it's how to fit ships as currently implemented. Reported.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 09:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Wideen I think the Omen is meant to use FMPs instead of HPLs. I fitted an omen with a full rack FMP, with 800mm plate and small rep, along with a heat sink and two hardeners. Problem is, it won't tank worth crap, but it puts out decent dmg. So I think it's fine. Thing is, as many have stated, that Amarr's dmg cruiser isn't the higest tier, which leaves it lacking. But hey, it's still a fun ship Actually I would say the omen is designed to use the second tier laser gun, the equivalent weapon to heavy ions and 220mms. Regrettably there is no such weapon... So it ends up only working with the equivalent of electrons and d180s. Which especially in the case of largely optimal-dependant weapons like lasers (optimal gets nerfed along with damage as weapon tiers get worse, falloff does not) is not very desireable. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Gamesguy D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Riho FMP.... you dont see many ruptures whit 425mm ac or thoraxes whit neutron blasters around that can fit a huge buffer tank use smaller weapons.. and it can fit a decent fit.... i cba posting mine again.. its in the other thread somewhere :P Wrong, a thorax can fit a full rack of heavy neutrons, and ruptures can fit a full rack of 425s+HAM IIs. Vexors can fit a full rack of neutrons, caracal 5 HAM IIs, stabber full rack of 425s+2 HAM IIs. All these ships have about a hundred to two hundred grid to spare after fitting a full rack of the biggest guns they can use. The omen is short around 180 grid to fit 5 HP IIs. It needs another 300 grid and 50 CPU to bring it inline with other tier 2 cruisers.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:26:00 - [9] The main problem is that even with the stupid FMP's, it's DPS is still below the DPS of an electron blaster vexor!!! Something is definitely broken on this ship, both in terms of fitting AND bonus. Ship is broken, you CAN make it work, but it's still outperformed by all other cruisers.
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Terraform The main problem is that even with the stupid FMP's, it's DPS is still below the DPS of an electron blaster vexor!!! Something is definitely broken on this ship, both in terms of fitting AND bonus. Ship is broken, you CAN make it work, but it's still outperformed by all other cruisers. I seriously don't get this. Even with t2 guns AND the ships ROF bonus, it still doesn't put out any decent damage. I thought that t2 laser base dmg with bonused ship should be pretty pwn. Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Shira Rayborn Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.20 10:55:00 - [11] Omen needs so much extra fitting its not funny. I sometimes wonder if ccp calculates anything at all or if its trial and error.
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 11:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Gamesguy The omen is short around 180 grid to fit 5 HP IIs. It needs another 300 grid and 50 CPU to bring it inline with other tier 2 cruisers. /Signed becouse the ship is so sexy that it deserves the love
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 12:06:00 - [13] I'm going to continue to bump this thread in the hopes that MAYBE some guy from CCP will actually attempt to fit the damn ship and see the sad results.
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.03.20 12:40:00 - [14] I don't even fly amarr, but the ship looks so god damn nice that I'd like it to have some more grid, so I can see more of these on the field. _______ ◕◡◕
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.20 12:40:00 - [15] Originally by: MuffinsRevenger Originally by: Gamesguy The omen is short around 180 grid to fit 5 HP IIs. It needs another 300 grid and 50 CPU to bring it inline with other tier 2 cruisers. /Signed becouse the ship is so sexy that it deserves the love LoL, QFT and signed.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 14:07:00 - [16] Another shameless bump i guess, I am really hoping someone at CCP sees this.
Ulstan Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.20 15:04:00 - [17] Bump for this. Omen simply doesn't have enough grid to be competitive with its peers. Its grid is bizzarely low to other ships of its class, rather like the Nighthawk.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 15:12:00 - [18] Another reason to love the Omen is because it's so sexy, come on, the sexiest hull in game? i think so!
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 16:11:00 - [19] Bump! I'm not letting it die.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 16:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Wideen Originally by: Terraform The main problem is that even with the stupid FMP's, it's DPS is still below the DPS of an electron blaster vexor!!! Something is definitely broken on this ship, both in terms of fitting AND bonus. Ship is broken, you CAN make it work, but it's still outperformed by all other cruisers. I seriously don't get this. Even with t2 guns AND the ships ROF bonus, it still doesn't put out any decent damage. I thought that t2 laser base dmg with bonused ship should be pretty pwn. It's a matter of FMP's having stats somewhere between tier 1 and 2. HPII's put out good dmg, fmp's do not. And HP only fit on the zealot/harb =P
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Julius Romanus It's a matter of FMP's having stats somewhere between tier 1 and 2. HPII's put out good dmg, fmp's do not. And HP only fit on the zealot/harb =P Real talk. A mid-tier would be nice seeing the big discrepancy between lower tier and higher tier; in terms of fitting and dmg output. But guess you can't have it all Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
0raven0 Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:23:00 - [22] 5 FMP II 10mn microwarpdrive I sensor booster I warp disruptor I 3 Heat Sink II Damage control I co-processor I 3 Warrior II 400 DPS with guns(conflag) and about 450 with drones locks most frigs before they warp and instapops them. Total invested is 9m but insurance pays back 4.5 so total loss is 4.5m. This setup works better than a gank rax or autocannon ruppie for gangs because you can do the damage before having to get within a couple kms. ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
Valenthra School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:28:00 - [23] I'd love to use the Omen for its sexyness only. Hard to love something that sucks... no wait >_>
0raven0 Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:31:00 - [24] Omen is actually now my favorite cruiser. with my pure gank setup i can kill other cruisers before they get within range of me if they are close range and i outdps them if they are long range. so yeah. ------ Quote: tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY tuxford: spelled* Oveur: rofl
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:34:00 - [25] Originally by: 0raven0 Omen is actually now my favorite cruiser. with my pure gank setup i can kill other cruisers before they get within range of me if they are close range and i outdps them if they are long range. so yeah. Mind sharing that setup?
EvilSpork Invicta.	Posted - 2008.03.20 17:51:00 - [26] i support this message and/or service.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:21:00 - [27] Bumpedibump, the forums are too fast. Sign! do it for the poor Omen
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Lux Exterior No, there is no cruiser that can do what you want. Get a battlecruiser if you want to fit top tier guns without fitting mods or gimping your tank. not even the bc most t1 ships arent supposed to fit high tier modules you wont find a harbinger with a good tank using heavies... or a brutix using neutrons
d3vo Airborne Assassins Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2008.03.20 18:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Terraform Bumpedibump, the forums are too fast. Sign! do it for the poor Omen ain't no one going to agree with you just deal with it buy another ship ffs
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 19:14:00 - [30] Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Terraform Bumpedibump, the forums are too fast. Sign! do it for the poor Omen ain't no one going to agree with you just deal with it buy another ship ffs Troll much? go somewhere else if you have nothing constructive to say, i wasn't asking for a ship that could gank AND tank, i just want the Omen to be able to gank like it was designed to do without getting outganked by the rest of the cruisers (even the damn maller).
Saetan SaDiablo Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council	Posted - 2008.03.20 19:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Lux Exterior No, there is no cruiser that can do what you want. Get a battlecruiser if you want to fit top tier guns without fitting mods or gimping your tank. Umm the thorax can. With lvl 5 fitting skills, which everyone should have if they expect to use top tier guns. Since you state NO cruiser can do this, I suggest not talking in absolutes. the stabber can as well, im sure theirs others.
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.20 19:29:00 - [32] Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Terraform Bumpedibump, the forums are too fast. Sign! do it for the poor Omen ain't no one going to agree with you just deal with it buy another ship ffs You are trolling man. As has been stated since before the patch went live the omen has always had serious fitting issues, giving it another turret made that worse.
Terraform Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.03.20 20:27:00 - [33] Sign for the Omen! Gimme an O M E N! OMEN!!
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.03.20 21:08:00 - [34] O - M - A - N !! Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Terraform	Posted - 2008.03.20 22:27:00 - [35] Sign.
Terraform	Posted - 2008.03.21 05:49:00 - [36] Read the first page and sign if you agree, anyone who's actually flown the omen knows there's a problem in fitting.
Terianna Eri FMP Corp	Posted - 2008.03.21 07:48:00 - [37] The Omen does have some pretty serious fitting issues, and I really, really think that it could be fixed by giving it more PG/CPU (not enough to support a full HPL II / MWD / Tank / Injector setup of course) and by giving Amarr a 2nd-teir medium-size pulse laser, between FMP and HPL. Maybe DMPL? (Dual Medium Pulse Laser) __________________________________
Terraform	Posted - 2008.03.21 08:06:00 - [38] Another type of gun is a great suggestion, not that hard to put in-game, still needs some more PG and CPU tho..
Ambtuehr	Posted - 2008.03.21 18:35:00 - [39] I've seen people testing out 5xFMP in the hi's, with tracking in the mids and hs's in the lows, but I really don't think too much of this setup. FMP setups are just inferior blasteraxs dont people agree? I'm more intrigued by mounting 5xBeam in the hi's with gank in the lows and using it in a small gang as throw away dps. I know everyone hates beams in pvp but you have range flexibility and with the Omen bonus pretty good RoF (I think 6sec or thereabouts? can't check @ work). Its really not a huge deal if the Omen doesn't shine versus other ships, its a passable dps/gank t1 cruiser for people of limited sp's who picked Amarr. But your better off crosstraining the 'Rax and thats all there is to it. The Maller and Arbi both work in their roles fine it seems to me, so no big deal right?
6Bagheera9	Posted - 2008.03.21 19:02:00 - [40] T2 Neutron gank Thoraxes are a well known and rightly feared for their DPS. T2 425mm Ruptures are doable, but much less common due to the meager gain in DPS with respect to 220mm AC fits. Can someone run some numbers to compare DPS for Ion/Thoraxes, FMP/Omens, and 220mmAC/Ruptures with effective ranges included?
Julius Romanus Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.21 19:19:00 - [41] Edited by: Julius Romanus on 21/03/2008 19:19:29 Gun only dps Rupture 220 II's/arby hams = 424 with faction ammo at 1.4+10 Omen FMPII's = 395 w/ faction at 6.8+3.3 Rax Ion II's = 470 at 1.7+5 Done with 3 dmg mods no drones. Drones put the omen well behind the others.
6Bagheera9 Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.03.22 00:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Julius Romanus Edited by: Julius Romanus on 21/03/2008 19:19:29 Gun only dps Rupture 220 II's/arby hams = 424 with faction ammo at 1.4+10 Omen FMPII's = 395 w/ faction at 6.8+3.3 Rax Ion II's = 470 at 1.7+5 Done with 3 dmg mods no drones. Drones put the omen well behind the others. Thank you for the grunt work, it appears that the Omen is not comparing well with other races. This suggests that FMP may need a boost.
FlyT3	Posted - 2008.03.22 00:23:00 - [43] Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. The thing about this, is that it cant sustain 5x HPL even when they're just running on their own. Quite good though. Nice range with Scorch M :) -------------------------- [gold]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie (mods@
Julius Romanus	Posted - 2008.03.22 02:37:00 - [44] lol a 120mil omen that ISNT a zealot scam. Anyway, the rupture and rax arent same tier as the omen afaik, so just lining em up isnt really fair. And the omen can project the dmg that it does have fairly far out. That doesnt change the fact that the omen needs more cap to run its guns, and more cpu/pg so that it can fit something other than overdrives after the guns and mwd. (and i'm talking fmp here)
Angelic Eviaran University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.24 21:51:00 - [45] Gief more cpu and pg to omen!
Vymorna Grom Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:04:00 - [46] I'll only sign if the sexyness prize is to be shared with the Hurricane, the "other" sexiest-hulled ship. Meh . . . I'll sign anyway. ---------------------------------- Originally by: Ralara Because you touch yourself at night. (dear god, that took 9 logins to post)
Howling Jinn Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:21:00 - [47] Originally by: 0raven0 5 FMP II 10mn microwarpdrive I sensor booster I warp disruptor I 3 Heat Sink II Damage control I co-processor I 3 Warrior II 400 DPS with guns(conflag) and about 450 with drones locks most frigs before they warp and instapops them. Total invested is 9m but insurance pays back 4.5 so total loss is 4.5m. This setup works better than a gank rax or autocannon ruppie for gangs because you can do the damage before having to get within a couple kms. dear god sensor booster(for saving cpu right since nothing else will fit) AND A CPU? why dont you let your mom play instead? this is HORRIBLE

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