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NeoTheo
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 21/03/2008 11:36:44
I am trying to figure out what the main differnt fly styles are of these ships can someone please help?
First i intend to use them as lowsec ships as they are A) cheap, and B) i have found a solid very cheap supplie of them.
THe Jaguar seems fast and lacking fire power where as the wolf is ALMOST as fast, but has much more firepower. I might as well explain that i am NEW to the world of projectiles, i have been told one of them is better for the AC's than the Artilery and i flat just dont understand why, i can only assume the Jag cause its slightly faster ?
if anyone could give me some detialed insights to these ships id be greatful, i dont mean fittings (cause frankly i am sure i know how to fit them), but more the reasons why one is better than the other in certain situations.
i know AF's suck for PvP however ive found some are passable, as i have never been killed in my harpy, and whislt i dont get many kills ive often forced people to run off, so i am persisting with the idea.
I am looking for the preactical differences of flight style, not just what it says on the description.
anyone who is knolagable can fill me in id be greatful.
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Linkage
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Saietor Blackgreen
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:54:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 21/03/2008 11:54:42
Both Wolf and Jag comparatively suck. Stabber cruiser can do almost as well.
But, still.
What do you mean by "lowsec ship"? To do what? The advantages you listed (cheap) are beaten dead by Rifter - its times cheaper, and can do almost as well.
Jag IS slow, its just faster than rest of AFs, which makes it passable. Wolf is significantly slower, plus its mass is high.
Differences in flystyle would be simple - with Jag you fit classical MWD-web-scram-MSE and go in, you can try that solo on small targets. With Wolf you let your mates tackle, fit MWD, MSE and Damage Control+2 gyros, and go in blasting away.
In first case you just as good in Stabber, in second - in Rupture.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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Posted - 2008.03.21 11:58:00 -
[3]
Jaguar - Faster of the two, prefered shield tank, better tackling abilities with 4 mids to use(mse/mwd/scram/web whatever you desire), less firepower, gets better range with arties than wolf due to bonus but is usually AC fitted for tackling.
Wolf - Armor tanked if any(even if you try it'll be poor/tough to do), limited cpu wise and midslot wise, only a web/scram choice if you go that route, better firepower of the two and makes a great arty or AC platform depending on your setup/style(with great skills you can hit around 12km with AC's and barrage without rigs).
I will also tell you they're sorta... "flip flopped" as in the wolf would suit better with optimal bonus and jag with the falloff, as they'd work out a bit better... but that's a different subject/thread
more water downed summary?
Jag - better tackler
Wolf - better damage
Think you got that pretty much right
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elorran
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Posted - 2008.03.21 12:00:00 -
[4]
Edited by: elorran on 21/03/2008 12:01:32
Edited by: elorran on 21/03/2008 12:00:31
Unless you're fighting against laser based ships minmatar assault frigates can be a little fragile compared to other assault frigates, though AF's are not the power capable ships they used to be way back before HAC's etc.
However, assault frigates can and do have roles to play in various engagements and situations, one being that they are arguably the best tech-2 ship to train for first given their generalisation and skill requirements (mechanic, engineering etc).
The jaguar is the fastest assault frigate and boasts 4 mid slots making it ideal as a tackling ship. It fares reasonably well with either autocannons or artilery as it has an optimal range bonus for staying out at range when using artillery. You can also more easily shield tank the ship given its "high" mid slots for a small ship of its class.
The wolf is more of a support ship for a group, though can still be used as a tackling vessel. It is best suited for autocannons, though can get some nice damage output with artillery for alpha strikes on other small and/or weak ships. You can armour tank a wolf to a limited degree but its difficult to do at times. The wolf is best suited for raw damage output and as such would find itself in a supporting damage dealing role.
Hopefully that helps to clarify things a little more for you, if thats what you were after.
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Department of Defence - Hydra Alliance |
Warrio
Mining Bytes Inc.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.21 12:12:00 -
[5]
In general the AF's of all races tend to be an expensive substitute for cruisers of the same race. Of course there are exceptions to this depending on pilot skill etc but do try out the cruisers mentioned above if you are able to.
Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.03.21 13:49:00 -
[6]
I would not use AC on both on them! the reason is simple, if you are webbed, you are dead. stay out of webrange using the jag faster speed to its advantage and hunt other small stuff or instapop an intie and warp out :) that is what they are good for
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.03.21 14:14:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
I would not use AC on both on them! the reason is simple, if you are webbed, you are dead. stay out of webrange using the jag faster speed to its advantage and hunt other small stuff or instapop an intie and warp out :) that is what they are good for
You cant instapop an inty in a jag. You cant instapop it in a wolf for that matter. Artilleries suck so much that its better to go into webrange and die, doing your part than stay out of it and do nothing.
Thats why AFs suck - the thing they are made for (frigate-class damage dealing) can be done efficiently only within webrange (with exceptions of some sniper or missile AFs). And when you get webbed, you die horribly very fast. Fate...
OTOH, 5-6 AFs with 8-10K effective HP each can fall into webrange and beat a crap out of many targets even without losses, or with minimal ones. But there is no advantage of such a gang currently, because T1 cruisers can do the same, let alone HACs.
Lets wait for a boost.
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Cpt Cosmic
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2008.03.21 15:22:00 -
[8]
yes you can with the wolf, you know there are something called a wrecking hit ;) otherwise it will take 2-3 salvos, but who cares lol
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Tasko Pal
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 21/03/2008 16:18:26
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
yes you can with the wolf, you know there are something called a wrecking hit ;) otherwise it will take 2-3 salvos, but who cares lol
Good chance you've be dead before salvo number 3. Those arties fire slow.
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Akita T
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:33:00 -
[10]
Dual-MSE, purger rigged Jaguar has an impressive passive shield tank for a frigate, about on par with that of a Hookbill... heck, beats the tank of some cruisers, actually.
Your only choice is to go for ACs there, arties won't fit. And you'll want at least one gyrostab, you probably won't be able to fit two due to the fact you'll be needing some fiting mods to make it work like that.
The damage output is not impressive, but with that tank, you can take on pretty much any other frigate and most cruisers without problems (I wouldn't recommend going after a thorax, but other than that, if you know how to fly it, you should be ok).
I love mine, anyway 
1|2|3|4|5. |
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Reem Fairchild
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.21 16:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 21/03/2008 16:18:26
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
yes you can with the wolf, you know there are something called a wrecking hit ;) otherwise it will take 2-3 salvos, but who cares lol
Good chance you've be dead before salvo number 3. Those arties fire slow.
If you're going to be in web range, you wouldn't use artillery.
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6Bagheera9
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.03.21 19:07:00 -
[12]
Wolf is a pain to use and I'd avoid it for the time being. Jaguar would be an awesome ship if it weren't for its silly optimal range bonus. As it is, its just a good AF. Fly it like a mini Vaga.
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NeoTheo
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2008.03.22 12:24:00 -
[13]
Thanks for the input guys, wolfs been put in the garage, and i have kitted a fairly decent Jaguar, MSE and mwd setup. Just trying to figure now if i want AC's or Artil on it.
;)
/Neo
Linkage
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Corphus
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Posted - 2008.03.22 12:40:00 -
[14]
the jag:
- faster
- shield tanked but passiveley
- has sufficient mids to solo web/scramble and engage
- has bigger sig radius than wolf
- has less dps than wolf
- has optimal bonus for projectiles hence longer range with artillery guns --> can be used as medrange ceptor sniper compromising tank and speed.
 mostly flown as heavier tackler and in solo piracy. prefers closerange over longrange.
the wolf:
- slower than jag
- active armor tank
- insufficnet mids thus has to choose either web or scram or disruptor
- smaller sig radius
- falloff bonus for projectiles --> can be used as very hardhitting ac boat with a 10km attack perimeter
can be used as a artillery boat with mwd and disruptor compromising only the tank but gaining speedtanking advantage and a 20km fighting range.
is a very good closerange boat similar to the enyo but less resilent and slightly less damaging.
the minmatar af give u both a good solo and gang ship and include the natural agility of minmatar ships which makes em wellsutied for piracy and fast raid gangs. for stand offs where resilence is more important than raw damage and a fast hit and run tactics the gallente or amarr af deliver more performance. but for fast paced skirmishes and raids minmatar are more than sufficient and make a load of fun to fly.
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Monticore D'Muertos
United Society Starfleet
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Posted - 2008.03.22 14:34:00 -
[15]
try a rifter and use the money ya save for rigs maybe
3x 200 1 rocket
mwd/web/med ext
mapc/speed mods
cheap speed rigs maybe a dmg rig and extender rig any cheap rig than can help does over 4km/s and guarantees every ceptor you face will try and kill you , no scram sucks but people tend to assume their tackled or assume they will kill you before you kill them.
vs any other t1 frig=win
vs most ceptors except ranis or good crow =win
vs afs 50/50 depending on sp fits and race
might surprise a few t1 cruiser with low sp
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Thu'ak
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 15:38:00 -
[16]
well I prefer wofl over jag.
Jag, having highest speed amongst af'es, still not fast enought to run and catch inties and nano cruiser, nor tackle anything in time.
at this point wolf has more dps and better effective range (since falloff bonus on projectile turrets are fairly higher than their optimal ranges and wolf can dish out quite some dmg even about 10km with 150mm autocannon) while has far better tank than jag (well if you can keep a stable speed tank with your jaguar yes jag is a better tank but that depends on your target).
personally since I wont be flying fast enought anyway I prefer to use 400m rolled tungsten on my wolf.
its something like
4 150mm autocannons
1 malkuth rocket launcher
warp distrupter
afterburner
400mm rolledtungsten
dmg control
reactive plating II
energized adaptive nano II
depending on your skill you can twik with hardeneers/dmgcontrol/laucher since its possible to fit a missile laucher if you drop t2 nano membrane to t1 I guess. If you cant fit itjust drop dmg control and put in a overdrive or an offline small repper (comes in very hand also a tribute to Drake Mazcal)
I had very good times with this setup
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