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cerberus Vs. Drake. Is there a reason to pay millions more for Cerb?

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Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:56:00 - [31] Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 12:00:53 Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 24/03/2008 09:41:03 The Cerberus was the best anti frig ship in the game before the precision missles were nerfed. Nighthawk has an extra anti-small bonus but its just too bloody expensive to use to kill frigies (you need to kill 100 ceptors to start making isk :) ) After the precision nerf the Cerb became useless as 1/2 pvp ships out there wouldnt take any damage from heavy precisions... even BS sized targets LOL. After the speed nerf I did not try it a lot and perhaps its useful again as antifrig (though for ceptors I somewhat doubt it). Lights are of course a valid point but then the DPS is so ridiculously low that it is like taking a Megathron with 7x150 rails in the gang to kill the enemy ceptors. All in all I d have to agree that HAMs are the only viable role of the Cerb because it gets longer range and it naons better than the Drake. On the negative side it has serious grid problems with HAMs (especially because its puny little cap doesnt allow good active tank with an mwd so you have to use LSE(s)). So what can you use Cerbs for: Make a speedy HAM Cerb using one or two ancillary current routers and you get a half decent ship for 150 mill. Meh (Disclaimer: The author of this has used the hell out of Cerbs in pve and especially in pvp but has limited experience with the last couple of patches) Thank you. The cerb USED to have a role - as an anti frig platform. Now it's useless. The sacrilege is MUCH better with ham's and anyone advocating sniping with missles... well let's just hope no one is seriously. Anything the cerb should want to be doing with HAM's (high dps, tackle, and tank) the sacrilege or drake does better. If you want a missile hac fly amarr.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Talio ZomB There sure is a reason, longest range HAM spam, something like 45km or so, nice dps too "long range" and "HAM" do not go together. Use t2 javelins with a sac if you're obsessed with missile sniping. Also, the sac outdamages the cerb WHILE being able to either nano or traditionally tank. Stop advocating the cerb over the drake or sac people - it's not worth the isk and you know it.
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 12:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Connor Banks ...eh, you all seem to forget Drake can deploy drones while the Cerberus can't. 5 light drones can with decent skills give 100 extra dps. Sure, drones in PvP isn't a viable option unless using HAMs. However, for mission running drones will decrease the mission completion time significantly. /Connor It's already been stated that the Drake is overall a better PvEmobile (excepting certain situations). Though I guess if you said that since the Drake does pitifully low DPS with drones and with faction missiles, then the Cerb must be even worse; then you'd have a point. But it does have a pretty huge range. Drake can only hit out to, what, 90kms with max skills (and rigs I think)? And drones aren't gonna go nearly that far...
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 12:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Connor Banks ...eh, you all seem to forget Drake can deploy drones while the Cerberus can't. 5 light drones can with decent skills give 100 extra dps. Sure, drones in PvP isn't a viable option unless using HAMs. However, for mission running drones will decrease the mission completion time significantly. /Connor It's already been stated that the Drake is overall a better PvEmobile (excepting certain situations). Though I guess if you said that since the Drake does pitifully low DPS with drones and with faction missiles, then the Cerb must be even worse; then you'd have a point. But it does have a pretty huge range. Drake can only hit out to, what, 90kms with max skills (and rigs I think)? And drones aren't gonna go nearly that far... If you want to snipe (60 km+) don't use missiles. Period.
Silentblue1987 Blue Army Reserve	Posted - 2008.03.24 12:39:00 - [35] Edited by: Silentblue1987 on 24/03/2008 12:40:04 buy the cerb, the drakes passive shields setup is either glitched or "nerfed" by ccp.. 1 NOS boat can ruin the drakes day, check the post: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=733216
Lrrp Gallente Mercantile Exchange Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.24 13:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Angelonico If you want to snipe (60 km+) don't use missiles. Period. Guess you never encountered Burn Eden and their use of Caldari Navy Ravens.
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 13:23:00 - [37] It honestly depends on what you consider a reason. The Drake has but ONE great talent - that is the ability to absorb tremendous amounts of damage for it's size. In it's most basic configuration it's DPS is almost laughably low - essentially it's "sufficient" for all forms of ratting and mission running but it by no means excells at the higher tiers of these tasks. When fitted for PVP, a HAM Drake can be a fearsome ship so long as it's target cooperates and gets within range, because the Drake, even when fitted with a MWD is painfully slow. The Cerb on the other hand puts out fairly reasonable damage for it's size - nearly as much as the Drake in fact. It does it all in a more flexible package that's lighter, faster and more agile with better range and locking time to boot. If one were so inclined the Cerb can be fitted for speed, and though it won't win any speed records it IS one of the few NANO Hac's that can deliver actual damage on target while traveling at breakneck (sorta) speeds. It absolutely SPRAYS missiles of every class and is one of the FEW missile boats truly suited to take down other nano ships - indeed only the fastest such ships can laugh away the threat the cerb poses to them. Is it worth the costs though? I guess that depends. On paper from a gank/tank standpoint the cerb certainly loses to the drake. In a 1 v 1 fight, you would simply have a stalemate since even a fairly ganky Cerb will not breach a PVE Drake's tank. Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat.
Cire XIII Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.03.24 13:34:00 - [38] Edited by: Cire XIII on 24/03/2008 13:34:08 Originally by: Silentblue1987 Edited by: Silentblue1987 on 24/03/2008 12:40:04 buy the cerb, the drakes passive shields setup is either glitched or "nerfed" by ccp.. 1 NOS boat can ruin the drakes day, check the post: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=733216 The validity of that thread is currently under question
Brodde Dim Unseen University Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:25:00 - [39] The 2 flavors of the month are speed setups and ECM. Both fear the cerb but ignore the drake.
Mahn AlNouhm The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:53:00 - [40] Quote: Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat. lol? I've never known the cerb to set the pace of combat. If they gave it a significant speed boost (maybe an extra low slot), I could see it being a little more viable, but right now its just not super desirable in fleet. If I want missiles, I want a sac. If I want range, I want an eagle or a zealot. If I want a missile turret parked 180km away, I might consider a cerb, but who wants that? My money is on the drake for being cheap and insurable. . . .

Katashi Ishizuka State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 15:26:00 - [41] Edited by: Katashi I**uka on 24/03/2008 15:29:12 o-O? Why WOULDN'T you want a 180km missle turret? That's the best kind, so when the crap hits the fan in your nano gang, and that enemy rapier uncloaks and starts webbing, you can still warp out. All you need your MWD for is for burning out of bubbles; Cerb isn't bad with limited use of heat. Nanoing is all about minimizing your risk exposure. Let the HACs that have to be within 15km or so to do damage do the tackling. You CANNOT fit an eagle to do the damage the Cerberus does at 180km with heavy missiles, and in a small nano-gang setting, the time to travel for missiles doesn't factor in as much as it would in a giant fleet.
Mahn AlNouhm The Bastards	Posted - 2008.03.24 16:06:00 - [42] Believe it or not, I'm training up for a Cerb as we speak. More for kicks, though. I own a Hawk, too. . . .
xxxak O.W.N. Corp United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 16:52:00 - [43] I have been flying a Cerb fairly exclusively for the last 45 days. I haven't lost it yet. I have traveled 100s of 0.0 and low sec jumps, and I have been caught at 3 "legitimate" gate camps (bubble, 10+ ships, ceptors, etc). I have been able to MWD back to the gate and escape every time. I have been shot at least 15 times, often by superior forces, and I have been able to either kill the tackler or re-dock or jump a gate. It is rigged with shield extenders and nanoed. On the other hand, I also haven't killed too much with it... 3-4 vagas, 1 huginn, and a few BCs, all with gang support.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:06:00 - [44] Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:09:27 Originally by: Katashi I**uka Edited by: Katashi I**uka on 24/03/2008 15:29:12 o-O? Why WOULDN'T you want a 180km missle turret? That's the best kind, so when the crap hits the fan in your nano gang, and that enemy rapier uncloaks and starts webbing, you can still warp out. All you need your MWD for is for burning out of bubbles; Cerb isn't bad with limited use of heat. Nanoing is all about minimizing your risk exposure. Let the HACs that have to be within 15km or so to do damage do the tackling. You CANNOT fit an eagle to do the damage the Cerberus does at 180km with heavy missiles, and in a small nano-gang setting, the time to travel for missiles doesn't factor in as much as it would in a giant fleet. If you want to snipe - never use missiles. And those cruise ravens mentioned are almost as f'ing useless as the cerb. 400 dps from a battleship that takes 30-45 seconds to hit its target? Guys, don't make me lol. If you want a missile hac use a sacrilege. If you want to snipe use turrets. And those advocating nanoing caldari ships just make my head hurt. It's that simple. The cerb is useless - please stop trying to defend it. It's not your fault, it's not MY fault, it's ccp's and I'm just pointing it out.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:11:00 - [45] Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:11:34 Originally by: Lrrp Originally by: Angelonico If you want to snipe (60 km+) don't use missiles. Period. Guess you never encountered Burn Eden and their use of Caldari Navy Ravens. Oh, and they smatbombed more often then they sniped by far. Armor tanking smart bombers. Crazy folks who thought outside the box. I liked seeing them around ^^. Question: do you STILL see smartbombing armor tanked ravens often?
xHalcyonx Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:18:00 - [46] Edited by: xHalcyonx on 24/03/2008 22:19:31 Originally by: Angelonico Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:09:27 Originally by: Katashi I**uka Edited by: Katashi I**uka on 24/03/2008 15:29:12 o-O? Why WOULDN'T you want a 180km missle turret? That's the best kind, so when the crap hits the fan in your nano gang, and that enemy rapier uncloaks and starts webbing, you can still warp out. All you need your MWD for is for burning out of bubbles; Cerb isn't bad with limited use of heat. Nanoing is all about minimizing your risk exposure. Let the HACs that have to be within 15km or so to do damage do the tackling. You CANNOT fit an eagle to do the damage the Cerberus does at 180km with heavy missiles, and in a small nano-gang setting, the time to travel for missiles doesn't factor in as much as it would in a giant fleet. If you want to snipe - never use missiles. And those cruise ravens mentioned are almost as f'ing useless as the cerb. 400 dps from a battleship that takes 30-45 seconds to hit its target? Guys, don't make me lol. If you want a missile hac use a sacrilege. If you want to snipe use turrets. And those advocating nanoing caldari ships just make my head hurt. It's that simple. The cerb is useless - please stop trying to defend it. It's not your fault, it's not MY fault, it's ccp's and I'm just pointing it out. Don't underestimate Burn Eden. The day you do is the day you get your ship violenced. EDIT: Wrong Quotes :P ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Quote: Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat. lol? I've never known the cerb to set the pace of combat. If they gave it a significant speed boost (maybe an extra low slot), I could see it being a little more viable, but right now its just not super desirable in fleet. If I want missiles, I want a sac. If I want range, I want an eagle or a zealot. If I want a missile turret parked 180km away, I might consider a cerb, but who wants that? My money is on the drake for being cheap and insurable. The Cerb can be fitted to travel quickly enough to keep foes at reasonable ranges for long periods of time combined with extreme range weapons or long ranged high damage weapons. I don't know how much more you think you need to set the pace of combat when you have adequate speed and exceptional range coupled with substantial DPS for it's class. You may not find these qualites worthy of the admission price and I can't fault you for it because there are vague and admittedly difficult to quantify.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:34:00 - [48] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Quote: Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat. lol? I've never known the cerb to set the pace of combat. If they gave it a significant speed boost (maybe an extra low slot), I could see it being a little more viable, but right now its just not super desirable in fleet. If I want missiles, I want a sac. If I want range, I want an eagle or a zealot. If I want a missile turret parked 180km away, I might consider a cerb, but who wants that? My money is on the drake for being cheap and insurable. The Cerb can be fitted to travel quickly enough to keep foes at reasonable ranges for long periods of time combined with extreme range weapons or long ranged high damage weapons. I don't know how much more you think you need to set the pace of combat when you have adequate speed and exceptional range coupled with substantial DPS for it's class. You may not find these qualites worthy of the admission price and I can't fault you for it because there are vague and admittedly difficult to quantify. The question was: was the cerb worth the extra uninsurable isk. It isn't. Period. If you want a missile hac - use a sacrilege. It does everything 5 times better. Fly one, you'll never go to your cerb again. 50 mil sp in caldari, 2.5 years or so flying cerbs. I'm not dogging the ship out of maliciousness, only common sense. The drake or sac does it better, cheaper.
Arakidias	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:37:00 - [49] EFT warrioring shows that a max skilled char can get 226 dps and 815 alpha out of the cerb with 3 BCU's and assault missile launchers with t2 percision lights. With explosion velocity rigs the explosion velocity for them is almsot 6km/s, which means that all non-pimped ceptors will go down in a few volleys at most. With a RoF of 3.6 seconds it gives about 10 seconds of reaction time. The tank is pretty crap when you fit an mwd though.
Angelonico	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:39:00 - [50] Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:41:50 Originally by: Arakidias With a RoF of 3.6 seconds it gives about 10 seconds of reaction time. The tank is pretty crap when you fit an mwd though. Considering they need 2 to align and warp out - and the cerb can fit NO tackling gear without compromising tank (christ it can't fit a MWD without the same result) - that's all they need. Cerbs are ** people, I thought everyone knew this by now. dps. tank. speed. ** flexibility (eg. medslot layout) It's not that hard to figure out.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Angelonico Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Quote: Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat. lol? I've never known the cerb to set the pace of combat. If they gave it a significant speed boost (maybe an extra low slot), I could see it being a little more viable, but right now its just not super desirable in fleet. If I want missiles, I want a sac. If I want range, I want an eagle or a zealot. If I want a missile turret parked 180km away, I might consider a cerb, but who wants that? My money is on the drake for being cheap and insurable. The Cerb can be fitted to travel quickly enough to keep foes at reasonable ranges for long periods of time combined with extreme range weapons or long ranged high damage weapons. I don't know how much more you think you need to set the pace of combat when you have adequate speed and exceptional range coupled with substantial DPS for it's class. You may not find these qualites worthy of the admission price and I can't fault you for it because there are vague and admittedly difficult to quantify. The question was: was the cerb worth the extra uninsurable isk. It isn't. Period. If you want a missile hac - use a sacrilege. It does everything 5 times better. Fly one, you'll never go to your cerb again. 50 mil sp in caldari, 2.5 years or so flying cerbs. I'm not dogging the ship out of maliciousness, only common sense. The drake or sac does it better, cheaper. I'll admit that the SAC does better in a lot of ways and overall I'd probably give it the nod. Being able to take damage in return is a handy feature from time to time afterall. But other than simply being in the same class and shooting similar weapons the two ships are incomparable. Afterall, the Cerb specializes in range whereas the SAC prefers the close fight. Since most HAC fights involve relatively short ranges the ship built for the task is obviously going to win the day. I may fly a Sac in the future since I have dabbled in the Dark ways of the Amarr, but until then I'd say the Cerb is a solid ship in spite of the fact that other ships can do it's job better.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Angelonico Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Quote: Determining if the Cerb is worth the price of admission, both in terms of the skills required and the costs involved is really a question of what price do you pay for flexability and the rare ability among the Caldari ranks to set the pace of combat. lol? I've never known the cerb to set the pace of combat. If they gave it a significant speed boost (maybe an extra low slot), I could see it being a little more viable, but right now its just not super desirable in fleet. If I want missiles, I want a sac. If I want range, I want an eagle or a zealot. If I want a missile turret parked 180km away, I might consider a cerb, but who wants that? My money is on the drake for being cheap and insurable. The Cerb can be fitted to travel quickly enough to keep foes at reasonable ranges for long periods of time combined with extreme range weapons or long ranged high damage weapons. I don't know how much more you think you need to set the pace of combat when you have adequate speed and exceptional range coupled with substantial DPS for it's class. You may not find these qualites worthy of the admission price and I can't fault you for it because there are vague and admittedly difficult to quantify. The question was: was the cerb worth the extra uninsurable isk. It isn't. Period. If you want a missile hac - use a sacrilege. It does everything 5 times better. Fly one, you'll never go to your cerb again. 50 mil sp in caldari, 2.5 years or so flying cerbs. I'm not dogging the ship out of maliciousness, only common sense. The drake or sac does it better, cheaper. I'll admit that the SAC does better in a lot of ways and overall I'd probably give it the nod. Being able to take damage in return is a handy feature from time to time afterall. But other than simply being in the same class and shooting similar weapons the two ships are incomparable. Afterall, the Cerb specializes in range whereas the SAC prefers the close fight. Since most HAC fights involve relatively short ranges the ship built for the task is obviously going to win the day. I may fly a Sac in the future since I have dabbled in the Dark ways of the Amarr, but until then I'd say the Cerb is a solid ship in spite of the fact that other ships can do it's job better. Sac with t2 ammo can hit pretty far out - and I STRONGLY prefer it, however I will concede the point that the drake is an excellent med range ship. It was even better before the sensor damp nerf when you could slap on a SB and 2 or 3 SD's, hover at aroiund 70 km - pount on one ship while damping 1 or 2 others. Eve however, is rarely "moderate" range. The sacrilege can get up close and dirty or hit from 70 km out. It can tank. It can nano. etc. etc. The real ship in question was the drake - and it does everything 90% as effectively as the cerb (90km range, slightly less dps, MUCH better tank) is insurable and much cheaper. The anti-frig sensor damping cerb of old is gone. Now we have a lump of ****.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.24 22:50:00 - [53] Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:52:20 I'd like to point out that I'm not advocating a boost or nerf of any kind in association with the ship. Merely acknowledging its weaknesses (and their are many) while mentioning its one or two strengths. Every game needs "bad" classes/ships/races/etc. This ship just happens to be one of them. Falcon and Eagle more than make up for Caldari cruisers as a whole.
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 23:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Angelonico Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:58:04 I'd like to point out that I'm not advocating a boost or nerf of any kind in association with the ship. Merely acknowledging its weaknesses (and there are many) while mentioning its one or two strengths. Every game needs "bad" classes/ships/races/etc. This ship just happens to be one of them. Falcon and Eagle more than make up for Caldari cruisers as a whole. The Cerb, like MOST Caldari ships is fairly weak as a solo ship. Afterall, what good is tremendous range if you're forced to play on your target's doorstep? But I still stand by my base statment that the Cerb is about flexability - which inheritly means you don't really excell at anything in particular. If flexability is important to you, I'd take the Cerb, otherwise the Drake is the better choice due to it's lower cost in SP and cash.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.25 02:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Angelonico Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:58:04 I'd like to point out that I'm not advocating a boost or nerf of any kind in association with the ship. Merely acknowledging its weaknesses (and there are many) while mentioning its one or two strengths. Every game needs "bad" classes/ships/races/etc. This ship just happens to be one of them. Falcon and Eagle more than make up for Caldari cruisers as a whole. The Cerb, like MOST Caldari ships is fairly weak as a solo ship. Afterall, what good is tremendous range if you're forced to play on your target's doorstep? But I still stand by my base statment that the Cerb is about flexibility - which means you don't really excell at anything in particular. If flexibility is important to you, I'd take the Cerb, otherwise the Drake is the better choice due to it's lower cost in SP and cash. Flexibility? It has ** dps and speed. It's meds are taken for tank/mwd. It's a weak hac with SOME med range viability. What you call flexibility I call mediocre to below average stats across the board. It's a ** hac m8. The second the sacrilege came out I never looked back.
Evil Pookie BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.03.25 03:16:00 - [56] Angel: I would fly a cerb before i would fly a drake. whether I would fly a sac over a cerb is a good question, I would probably still use the cerb. But both ships pale into insignificance to the raven. The raven has strengths, if utilised that make it way more attractive than the cerb/drake/sac imho. I swear by the raven, it is the best all round pvp battleship in the game. If setup right it is like the swiss army knife of battleships. If you doubt what I say then look at the following link, it is my killboard stats. http://udie.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Evil%20Pookie I will finish this by saying the following: success in pvp is 20% ship selection and setup, 80% teamwork/tactics/intelligence.
Angelonico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.03.25 03:24:00 - [57] Edited by: Angelonico on 25/03/2008 03:25:07 Originally by: Evil Pookie Angel: I would fly a cerb before i would fly a drake. whether I would fly a sac over a cerb is a good question, I would probably still use the cerb. But both ships pale into insignificance to the raven. The raven has strengths, if utilised that make it way more attractive than the cerb/drake/sac imho. I swear by the raven, it is the best all round pvp battleship in the game. If setup right it is like the swiss army knife of battleships. If you doubt what I say then look at the following link, it is my killboard stats. http://udie.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Evil%20Pookie I will finish this by saying the following: success in pvp is 20% ship selection and setup, 80% teamwork/tactics/intelligence. I've seen the vid - and those raven fits were most entertaining. I salute you and what you've managed to accomplish with those puppies, I really do. Obviously one would take a hac over a bc any day, the question at hand is: is it worth the extra uninsurable isk? Due to the overall weakness of the cerb I'd say no. Now, hac for hac... I'll take a duel my sac versus your cerb anyday m8, message me in game. I will gladly tip my hat if you win. Also, i'm nowhere near as rich as you - no faction/officer mods :P moneybags. Cheers ^^
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.25 03:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Angelonico Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Angelonico Edited by: Angelonico on 24/03/2008 22:58:04 I'd like to point out that I'm not advocating a boost or nerf of any kind in association with the ship. Merely acknowledging its weaknesses (and there are many) while mentioning its one or two strengths. Every game needs "bad" classes/ships/races/etc. This ship just happens to be one of them. Falcon and Eagle more than make up for Caldari cruisers as a whole. The Cerb, like MOST Caldari ships is fairly weak as a solo ship. Afterall, what good is tremendous range if you're forced to play on your target's doorstep? But I still stand by my base statment that the Cerb is about flexibility - which means you don't really excell at anything in particular. If flexibility is important to you, I'd take the Cerb, otherwise the Drake is the better choice due to it's lower cost in SP and cash. Flexibility? It has ** dps and speed. It's meds are taken for tank/mwd. It's a weak hac with SOME med range viability. What you call flexibility I call mediocre to below average stats across the board. It's a ** hac m8. The second the sacrilege came out I never looked back. Sure, the Cerb won't win a speed consest EVEN if it's deadspace/faction/polycarbed/snaked. You may squeeze out 4k/s there, but short of the interceptors Caldari aren't known for speed. Adequate speed combined with exceptional range for it's class makes the Cerb a ship that CAN be perfectly useful in a gang. When fitted with HAM's the Cerb can pump out enough DPS at above average PVP ranges to be useful as well. Yes other ships fly faster, yes other ships hit harder, yes other ships tank better, but just how many ships that CAN fly faster than the cerb actually hit harder at similar ranges and tank better? The Cerb is flexible precisely because it fails to excel at any particualr role. In a gang the cerb can sit at inconvient ranges and deal damage with near impugnity with Heavy Missiles. When fitted for max firepower the cerb can STILL sit well outside tackle range and deal plenty of damage with NEAR impugnity in a well run gang. I can't think of any other HAC that can hit a target at 180km for 300+ dps, nor can I think of a ship better suited to at least contest this range advantage. The Sac is the better ship, I'll grant you that. I'll even grant you that the Drake is a better ship in MANY scenarios. But you won't get around the simple fact that the ship will effortlessly fly faster than a drake and hit from further than a Drake or Sac. But the question was never "which is better - the sac or the cerb" it was "is the cerb worth the cost". To most people the answer is no. Flexability in terms of your engagment envelope is impossible to quantify and Eve is most certainly a game of min/maxing, with little love for the ships that can do everything okay.
Evil Pookie	Posted - 2008.03.25 06:06:00 - [59] sigh angelico you have completely missed the point of my post on so many levels. get out of the 1v1 mindset, eve combat is never 1v1. and if you try to put together a solo pown mobile setup you will fail when outnumbered everytime. and trust me, if you look for fights you will often be outnumbered. the raven, is the best sniper in the game but has one fundamental flaw, flight time. but lets think outside the box a little shall we. combine a sniping raven with an interdictor and suddenly flight time does not matter quite so much. it statements like "If you want to snipe - never use missiles." that show just how little you understand about eve and pvp in general. ccp give you the building blocks, its what you do with those blocks that count. Since you obviously fail at thinking outside the box, you will be doomed to a career of mediocracy. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Angelonico	Posted - 2008.03.25 06:21:00 - [60] Originally by: Evil Pookie sigh angelico you have completely missed the point of my post on so many levels. get out of the 1v1 mindset, eve combat is never 1v1. and if you try to put together a solo pown mobile setup you will fail when outnumbered everytime. and trust me, if you look for fights you will often be outnumbered. the raven, is the best sniper in the game but has one fundamental flaw, flight time. but lets think outside the box a little shall we. combine a sniping raven with an interdictor and suddenly flight time does not matter quite so much. it statements like "If you want to snipe - never use missiles." that show just how little you understand about eve and pvp in general. ccp give you the building blocks, its what you do with those blocks that count. Since you obviously fail at thinking outside the box, you will be doomed to a career of mediocracy. I agree with you 100% on almost everything you said... except the fact that, for the purposes of this discussion, I thought we were talking about their solo viability (and comparison.) For support roles, the cerb's speed and range does indeed make it superior (eg. in gangs) but I'd still not shell out the isk for it considering how much of a minimal gain you'd receive across the board. I respect your opinion however and by no means am trying to troll you or anyone else contributing to this discussion. I just prefer being blunt over ***** footing around these issues. Also, that duel offer is still open anytime m8 Getting my ass kicked by Burn Eden might humble me up some.



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