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Lego Maniac
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.22 20:02:00 -
[1]
Just as the title says, defender missiles are trash in most situations.
For defenders to be useful, I'd suggest multiplying to base velocity by 1.5... perhaps 2.0, and divide its agility multiplier stat by the same - nerf the max flight time to balance this. My observations tell me that defenders almost never manage to strike the incoming missile on the first pass and instead need to turn around the "catch" it's target; faster defenders would do this more efficiently and give the target missile less chance of impacting.
The above suggestion is only really benficial towards using defenders in close quarters situations, against say torpedoes or HAMs (I don't think defenders would ever work against rockets). Defenders against missiles coming towards you from outside of 15 km don't have the problem of not striking on a regular basis.
Another thing that could go towards making defenders useful is making a "defender specific" launcher. Right now the best launchers to use for firing defenders are rocket launchers due to the fast rate of fire, but the clip size is 10 defenders per reload. This is pretty horrible. However, increasing the capacity of rocket launchers would unbalance those who use them to fire regular rockets. A defender only launcher should have the same ROF as a rocket launcher, but better clip size. An alternative to this solution would be to just make defenders themselves smaller, the same size as rockets.
Another problem with defenders is that they are "dumb." If more than 1 enemy missile is coming towards you, the defenders set a course for the closest one - even if you manage to launcher multiples, the rest are wasted as soon as the primary target is destroyed. Defenders out in space already should be able to re-acquire a new target.
Let me know what you guys think.
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Kagura Nikon
Infinity Enterprises
Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.03.22 20:11:00 -
[2]
Basically eveeryone knows they need a buff. but ccp don't care it seems.
Also I woudl prefer if the defenders attacked ANY missile incommign into your gang.
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Jesia Amren
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jesia Amren on 28/03/2008 17:16:24
[Post removed for redundancy]
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Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2008.03.28 18:09:00 -
[4]
*yawns*
Yet another missile nerf whine.
Defenders do not need any work, missile have already been dumbed down time and again.
What does need nerfing is threads like this, or alternatively the SEACH function could be used just to see how many useless whines have gone before....
Recruitment |
Faust Paramore
Praetorian BlackGuard
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.28 18:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Faust Paramore on 28/03/2008 18:20:43
Defenders just need to auto fire after activation. I don't want them to fire like a normal missile launcher. I want to activate the module and have it wait for an incomming missile then deply defenders as needed. Last time I used them they turned themselves off every few seconds because there was no missile flying when their cycle time was up.
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Buster Nabinya
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:09:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Strikeclone
*yawns*
What does need nerfing is threads like this, or alternatively the SEACH function could be used just to see how many useless whines have gone before....
Hmm maybe that should give you a clue that perhaps (gasp) Missiles need fixing. If so many people complain about something.. it's usually broken.
Generally people like you are trolls looking to fuel a fire with your attitude towards others rather than responding with something constructive. You use dirisive language and attitude and behave poorly. Your parents should be terribly ashamed of themselves for raising a child without teaching them the concepts of proper behavior in any medium.
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.03.28 20:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kerfira on 28/03/2008 20:11:56
They don't work as they currently are because of one reason: If you have the choice between shooting down one enemy missile, or firing one of your own, it's always best to fire one of your own so you can kill the enemy quicker.
This follows from most battles in EVE being many-on-few ganks.
If you're the ganker, you want to kill quickly.
If you're the gankee, you're dead anyway and want to take someone with you if possible.
For defenders to be effective, they should first of all be automatic like other missile launchers, and secondly they should fire at any missile targeted at your fleet within your range.
For this to be implemented however, missiles would need to be buffed as they're currently more or less equal to other weapon types. This however would screw up their use in PvE making them too good there.
So in essence, unless similar countermeasures were (somehow) made against other weapons types, this can't be implemented.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.03.29 17:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 28/03/2008 20:11:56
They don't work as they currently are because of one reason: If you have the choice between shooting down one enemy missile, or firing one of your own, it's always best to fire one of your own so you can kill the enemy quicker.
While fighting some missile boats last night I think I realized a counter example to this statement.
I use a passive shield tanked arty ship. It is generally in my best interest to extend the engagement out as much as possible since that is where my defense shines.
I have a much better survivability if I decrease the incoming damage somehow. In the case of missiles, if I could effectivly counter them before I hit, that reduces the comment to 'I do slow damage but my tank is barely scratched'. So if defenders were a bit more usable I would defiantly fit them. Esp on these split layout ships (since I generally do not use missiles and put something else in those slots anyway)
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Nylix Test
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.29 18:45:00 -
[9]
How about something even simpler...
A defender missle module as suggested earlier. Uses charge Defender missile. Doesn't fly around or cause lag zipping about keeping latency and frame rates up. Instead adds +15% resist to all damage types for MISSILE ONLY damage. stacking penalty applies for possible double kills. 15% is just a number... change as desired. Module is activated and stays active using 1 charge per/whutever.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.03.29 21:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nylix Test
How about something even simpler...
A defender missle module as suggested earlier. Uses charge Defender missile. Doesn't fly around or cause lag zipping about keeping latency and frame rates up. Instead adds +15% resist to all damage types for MISSILE ONLY damage. stacking penalty applies for possible double kills. 15% is just a number... change as desired. Module is activated and stays active using 1 charge per/whutever.
Missiles and other weapon types are more or less equal these days. If you put in a countermeasure for one weapon type but not the others, you just create an instability in the game.
Look at my post above where I explained this. It's equally true whether it's an anti-missile system or some other form of damage limitation.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.03.29 21:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Kerfira
They don't work as they currently are because of one reason: If you have the choice between shooting down one enemy missile, or firing one of your own, it's always best to fire one of your own so you can kill the enemy quicker.
While fighting some missile boats last night I think I realized a counter example to this statement.
I use a passive shield tanked arty ship. It is generally in my best interest to extend the engagement out as much as possible since that is where my defense shines.
I have a much better survivability if I decrease the incoming damage somehow. In the case of missiles, if I could effectivly counter them before I hit, that reduces the comment to 'I do slow damage but my tank is barely scratched'. So if defenders were a bit more usable I would defiantly fit them. Esp on these split layout ships (since I generally do not use missiles and put something else in those slots anyway)
Yeah, a valid but IMHO rare scenario. I should probably have said 'almost always best'.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.03.30 00:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Nylix Test
How about something even simpler...
A defender missle module as suggested earlier. Uses charge Defender missile. Doesn't fly around or cause lag zipping about keeping latency and frame rates up. Instead adds +15% resist to all damage types for MISSILE ONLY damage. stacking penalty applies for possible double kills. 15% is just a number... change as desired. Module is activated and stays active using 1 charge per/whutever.
Missiles and other weapon types are more or less equal these days. If you put in a countermeasure for one weapon type but not the others, you just create an instability in the game.
Look at my post above where I explained this. It's equally true whether it's an anti-missile system or some other form of damage limitation.
So, you suggest we remove turret disruptors? Cool.
Oh wait.
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.30 00:43:00 -
[13]
What i'd love to see would be a Caldari anti-missile-ship.
Change defenders to work against anyyone who is aggressing your mates. Make a ship with added Defender-velocity.
Basically a ship to counter incoming missiles.
It would be horribly unbalanced, and people don't use missiles too much in pvp anyways, but to me it sounds fun..
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2008.03.30 05:01:00 -
[14]
They can be handy for PvE. Getting blobbed by Angels? A Drake with seven rocket launchers full of Defenders can neutralize most of their damage and easily tank the rest in any mission or exploration site.
Crusades: Security Status |
Strikeclone
The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2008.03.30 08:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Strikeclone on 30/03/2008 08:45:46
Originally by: Buster Nabinya
Hmm maybe that should give you a clue that perhaps (gasp) Missiles need fixing. If so many people complain about something.. it's usually broken.
Take a deep breath from talking rubbish, you sound like you need it to relieve your gasping.
Originally by: Buster Nabinya
Generally people like you are trolls looking to fuel a fire with your attitude towards others rather than responding with something constructive. You use dirisive language and attitude and behave poorly.
Right back at you.
Originally by: Buster Nabinya
Your parents should be terribly ashamed of themselves for raising a child without teaching them the concepts of proper behavior in any medium.
Big words when hiding behind your PC.
Bottom line is I have been playing Eve for over four years, I presented my argument and my opinion as I am allowed to do.
Whining about it and then claiming I'm a "troll" then cussing my parents is hardly going to gain you credability mr ALT. In fact THAT attitude is the very definition of a "troll"
Defenders work exactly as they are ment to, a long range counter to missiles. Just as the tracking disruptor is a long range counter to turret fire.
Both loose the effectiveness the close to the firer the target is, this is how it is SUPPOSED TO WORK!
So now say something "contructive" about the OP's topic and do it with your main or else stufu.
Recruitment |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.03.30 09:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Karanth
Originally by: Kerfira
Missiles and other weapon types are more or less equal these days. If you put in a countermeasure for one weapon type but not the others, you just create an instability in the game.
Look at my post above where I explained this. It's equally true whether it's an anti-missile system or some other form of damage limitation.
So, you suggest we remove turret disruptors? Cool.
Oh wait.
Wondered whether anyone would catch onto that 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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