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Give me a reason to cross train.

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Tahlma Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:28:00 - [1] I am an Amarr only pilot. I can fly cov ops, AFs, HACs, the Absolution and the Paladin. IÆve got great laser skills, so-so drone and missile skills and almost no ewar skills. Naturally I armor tank and have no real shield skills. But ever since I started IÆve toyed with the idea of cross training. I just canÆt seem to make up my mind. So IÆd like to ask the community to make a case for making training any of the other races worth the time.
Havok Dryke Golden Gavel Enterprises The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:42:00 - [2] If you ever do any T4 missions, the answer is simple. Dominix. You already have good armour and drone skills, and you don't need hybrid weapon skills (Domi doesn't need guns). Procedure for completing missions with a dominix: 1. Warp in 2. Set tank (Dual LAR II, permaruns) and get aggro with small gun/laser (I use a Tachyon ) 3. Make food 4. Eat food 5. Let dog out 6. Come back to find yourself in a giant ball of wrecks. -------------------------------------- EVE is a cold, harsh world, filled with people that would kill you without a second thought. The forums are even worse.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:46:00 - [3] A reason? There is none, unless you desire ships you currently cannot fly. Both Minmatar and gallente are close to your current skillplan. Blood vessels are hopefully getting a boost sooner rather than later. Minmatar is on a whole a very different gameplay from Amarr. Quick nimble with somewhat low dps and tank. Contrary to plenty of tank or plenty of gank. Gallente uses your drone skills and provides a good balance. Postcount: 906312
Derek Sigres Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 00:54:00 - [4] The ONLY reason to cross train is to give you more options. No fancy argument will change this. The different races, in spite of what some people seem to think, are essentially capable of accomplishing the same basic things - the only difference is how they go about doing it. Amarr for example has reasonable firepower and incredibly sturdy tanks (as a rule) but they don't really have many "tricks" up their sleeves. Minmitar are all about speed and flexability leading Minmitar players to exhaustive levels of training. Gallente ships to me are a cross between the Amarr theory and Caldari theory. Their ships tend to be the heaviest hitters out there but once again it's rare that I personally see a gallente ships with any nasty surprises (it's usually just tank/gank) The only race I am truly familiar with however is Caldari - I have flown various Caldari ships since I started the game two years ago and have only recently crosstrained into Amarr (before the Amarr boost, because I never believed they were as pitiful as some would lead you to believe) Caldari is in the wierdest position of them all - capable of fielding the widest variety of nasty surprises yet rarely using that capability. We have what is arguably the BEST EWAR out ther in the form of ECM and feature some of the best support ships in the game. Missile based damage has the advantage of being reasonably hard hitting at fantastic ranges but comes with the penalty that the missiles are evaded (either through warp outs, or, more recently pure speed) When it comes to pure tank/gank, Caldari ships often excell thanks to plentiful mid slots for shield tanks. Unfortunatly, where most races trade gank for tank, we trade every nasty trick in the book. All in all, Caldri ships aren't anything particularly special. The ship designs are often "just plain average" in terms of their capabilities which makes many people belive (perhaps fairly) that Caldari is the noob race. There are no glaring defecencies nor are there many spectacular successes within our fleets. That being said, as an Amarr pilot, Caldari might not be to your tastes. I would personaly suggest Gallente simply because many of your skills can cross over, giving your a decent leg up in that area.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:04:00 - [5] There is no reason to cross train if you can make money with the ships you fly and you obviously can. I cross trained early in my amarr live because i wanted the different damage type the caldari missiles offer to rat and mission faster. Turns out you cant beat a mission raven/golem in terms of speed if you do it well in most missions. I also cross trained to gallente because i wanted the domi for pvp and the thorax. Turns out that the geddon does just as well. Cant beat the rax though. And i finally cross trained projectiles to fit them on my old apoc to rat with it. turns out this is still useful if you cant fly a raven. IN conclusion: Cross training is a mess, dont do it.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Andreask14 There is no reason to cross train if you can make money with the ships you fly and you obviously can. I cross trained early in my amarr live because i wanted the different damage type the caldari missiles offer to rat and mission faster. Turns out you cant beat a mission raven/golem in terms of speed if you do it well in most missions. I also cross trained to gallente because i wanted the domi for pvp and the thorax. Turns out that the geddon does just as well. Cant beat the rax though. And i finally cross trained projectiles to fit them on my old apoc to rat with it. turns out this is still useful if you cant fly a raven. IN conclusion: Cross training is a mess, dont do it. Funny, this is what I would like to call the ignorance that kills most of EVE. The rule of thumb is learn to fly a ship before you move on. You do not know how to fly a ship simply because you can undock it and utilize it's bonus. With the resume you just presented, I have to presume you land around 40-50 mil sp..?... if you rushed? Once you're done with one ship. Estimate how long it would take for you to fly the next. Normally it's faster to train within the same faction, but... if that's not the ship you want... Postcount: 99966
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:20:00 - [7] Well, the only reason to really cross train is to avoid the nerfbat when it swings. Fortunately (for you), Amarr are up the uptick right now and receiving lots of boosts. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Noisrevbus Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.24 01:21:00 - [8] I stem in with the crowd. Let me give you a bit different perspective though. Look at it like this: If you are a heavily conservative Amarr player, training up your turrets, armortank and drones - you crosstrain Gallente best. It doesn't really give you much new options though, which contradict the reason you would crosstrain for (getting a wider array of options), as you'd fill a very similar role. It also contradict your nature, as if you have trained exclusivly for tank and spank, you obviously do not have a defined interest in crosstraining and broaden your character in the first place. In such a situation, i would definately 'crosstrain within my own race' first, and look at what options you get with the Khanid ships, and training missile skills together with navigation skills. If you are more of a curious Khanid at heart, and have already gone either exclusively for that approach (unlikely as it is) or tried more of the options available within your class with all recent changes instead of complaining that Khanid is not 'Amarr enough'. Then you can find interesting paralells within both Caldari and Minmatar (not to mention Gallente as well). You can train for larger missile boats and sensor skills, or you can train navigation skills to utilize with your drones (and then amend with either weapon system you wish).
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:10:00 - [9] Edited by: cal nereus on 24/03/2008 02:11:50 The primary reason to cross-train is to gain access to a specific ship, possibly for its bonuses to specific items. Each race covers all your basic needs, but maybe there is a ship in a different racial tree that you prefer for a certain role instead. For example, maybe you want a ship that does not need either ammo or cap to deal damage: a droneboat like the Myrmidon might suit your fancy. Or, maybe you want to give ECM a try, so you could train for a Blackbird to experiment. If you have a desperate need for speed, then Minmatar frigates and cruisers are something you might want to look into. Cross-training gives a player more options for different situations. Myself, I enjoy the flexibility of being able to pilot both Gallente and Caldari ships. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Tahlma Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 02:43:00 - [10] I guess the real (practical) reason for me to cross train is to add a few more tools to my toolbox. As you can see by the ships I fly I am pretty much just a floating laser. There are no surprises. The tactics are pretty simple. And I often hear from alliance mates and various blues, ôWhat can you do?ö All I can say is, ôI shoot things.ö I guess Caldari gives me the most new options. But the skill training time is mind-boggling. I think I would need to train racial frig and cruiser to 5, shields, missiles, hybrids, ewar and recons. I wouldn't train BSs. I think the Amarrian BSs are quite good enough. Just one question... can the falcon scan probe and do it's primary job?
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.24 03:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Tahlma Just one question... can the falcon scan probe and do it's primary job? Yes -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:43:00 - [12] I'd say Gallente too. You'll just have to uyp your drone skills (needed anyway) and hybrid towers - and you're good to go. A handfull more of very nice ships to fly.
Diomidis Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:45:00 - [13] Training up missile skills to support Khanid @ Amarr vessels (Malediction / Sacrilege / Curse / Damnation) will lead eventually to 2-2.5M SP in Missiles (with 1-2 Specs for standard or HAM / HML T2 modules)...that's a good point to consider cross training for Caldari, as you can get Cruiser lvl 4 and other lvl 4/5 shield skills to support it in roughly 2 weeks...no big deal. Also on some occasions (aka Guristas for example), a Raven with T1 Gear and say "Cruise lvl 2 and some good support missile skills" a can outperform say a Geddon with ~900dps, including dmg spec Heavy drones...if you are flying against EM/Thermal weak opponents, it's obvious that scale toes towards Amarr (supported by your adequate skills in lasers that is). Yet the Raven with it's extreme range capability and good efficiency (no tracking issues etc) can still perform more than efficient, whoever the enemy, choosing rat-specific missiles etc. For PvP you cannot say that X race surely worths it etc: you aim for specific goals. Should you wish to train T2 missiles for you Amarrian ships -> Caldari, the Cerb and the Onyx are good deals. You like Drones for your Amarr Recons? U believe it's time to get T2 Heavies for your BSs? -> Gallente Domi and Ishtar Should you wish to train for Recons? -> Minmatar Webbing Recons "rock" against the nano-fag trend and full T2 fitting is not your first priority further than a T2 LSE, MWD etc: you are there to web. You like true Ewar? -> can't beat Rook/Falcon, still you need to invest serious SPs in both Electronics and off course ~ a month for Racial Cruiser V, but that goes for every HAS/Recon. Going for sth that uses almost none of your already trained up skills is a bit more boring: e.g you could aim for a Vaga, but that requires both T2 med projectiles and some shield skills you don't have = an extra 1~1.5 month or so of extra training that won't show on your existing ships. Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! Introduce HEAT EMMITERÖ for the Pilgrim
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:56:00 - [14] i have been cross training since the start of this char :P 1st year: started as gallente, trained some caldari skills (raven skills). that meant i had good pvp ships and i could fly the raven to fund my pvp. 2nd year: trained abit more gallente skills but went heavily into minni training. 3rd year (this year): doing both gallente and minni maxing abit and now training heavily amarr. why do i do this.. why not max out one race ships? i like choise... whitout that... i get bored. i dont like to fly the same ships all the time. thats the only good reason to cross train. i like gallente for the sheer utility and good gank and dank combo. i like minmatar for the speed and agility i like caldari.... erm... acctually i dont... only ship i fly is raven and thats in pvp only i want to train amarr because of the sheer damage and the armor HP. plate gank geddon.. . acctually to be honest i havent flown gallente ships much at all for the last 6 months.. dont like em anymore :P for the OP: train minmatar if you want fast, agile cruiser size ships (recons, hacs, cruisers) Train gallente if your into drones and close range combat :) (megathron is quite nice) train caldari if you want to try something completly different... missiles and shield tank.. cant comment on t2 caldari ships as i cant fly any of them.. only t2 minni and gallente ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Akita T on 24/03/2008 09:01:38 Originally by: Tahlma have no real shield skills. But ever since I started I’ve toyed with the idea of cross training. Shield OP, rank 1, L5 obtainable very fast. Shield Compensation, rank 2 and/or Shield Upgrades, rank 2 (active/passive tank), only really need L4 in it, even faster. Shield Management, rank 3, that's the only one with a "bit" of a problem, but you're looking at 2-3 weeks tops for L5, and L4 is quite fast (you only really "need" L5 if you go with an active tank). Tactical Shield Management, L1 should be a breeze, L4 is all you'll ever need, no point in training L5. Since you can fly an Absolution already, the Nighthawk would be a welcome addition. Caldari Cruiser 5 doesn't take THAT long, and you say your missile skills are ok-ish anyway. Has a really cheap fit (ship itself is a tad on the expensive side tho'), and an awesome passive tank. Works awesome in those L4s where Amarr ships find it a bit hard to compete (Angels mainly, even Guristas or Serpentis). As a side-bonus, you also get the Drake, Cerberus and Eagle. Drake isn't all that impressive, but works just fine in larger gangs (and the chance of going down is small, especially given the pricetag of the ship), the Cerberus can be quite ok especially as anti-tackler (but I suppose you prefer Sacrilege for heavy-duty damage), and the Eagle, even if it would require some hybrid training, has an impressive sniping range (in case you need it). Last but not least, Sansha ships. Yummy. 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Crellion Art of War	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:53:00 - [16] You need to cross train so you can get a better understanding of the game. This will help you in everything and especially in pvp. Of course wasting too many points in cross training limits you also. I would personally suggest a balance with twoc chars training lise so: Char 1 Primary Race a, Secondary Race b Char 2 Primary Race c, Secondary Race c This is the prefect scenario in my opinion. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
perl Red Brigade	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:24:00 - [17] I trained 'em all, im nerfproof! booya! Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Msobe Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.24 14:09:00 - [18] But, but, but . . . but all the cool kids are cross training to Amarr now!!!! Just train TDs, and you'd kick some serious ass, guaranteed! Well, that's FOTM anyhow . . . Caldari opens up some interesting new ships, has a different play style, and has the added bonus of giving you everything you need for a nightmare - the best "Amarr" ship in the game. ;-)
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.24 16:57:00 - [19] Originally by: perl I trained 'em all, im nerfproof! booya! This! Also, there's a certain satisfaction and benefit to being unpredictable. Example is you being camped in a station by a small cruiser/frig gang who know you're in a megathron, undock in a scorp, fail spectacularly at jammin anythin, redock, undock in a geddon, kill 2 cruisers, redock, undock in a discophoon and podkill two ceptors. True story Not to mention that you get to use the cool pirate faction ships ofc which might end up being more speshul after the faction warfare patch (whenever that comes ) Boink!
Ghengis Tia Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.03.24 17:07:00 - [20] Started out Amarr, cross-trained to Minmatar. Gunnery skills transfer great to Projectile turrets. My drone skills (from the Arbitrator) also help with the somewhat smaller drone bays on Minny ships. I also trained missile skills for my Arby which transfer over well. I enjoy the versatility of my Hurricane thoroughly. Being able to switch ammo and change damage types is a real step up from the Thermal/EM Energy Beam drag. The Rupture is my cruiser of choice (Arbitrator second). Nothing like flying straight into a bunch of 'rats with A/Cs and Assault Launchers blazing. The Rupture also did quite well in the recent Alliance Tournament.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.24 17:13:00 - [21] don't, amarr rocks once everything is maxed out go ahead and train something else thats my current plan. or just don't train anything, cant see why you would want to do that though

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