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GATEKEEPER Space Odyssey Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:15:00 - [1] Every player pirate in the game says that the game needs to be realistic as the reason why player pirates need to be in the game. I understand the need for the game to be realistic which is why we have player pirates in the game. But lets face it, player pirates have a advantage in the game that real life would not afford them. If they are not below a -5 in sec rating they are left alone in high sec systems by concord. If they are below -5 in sec rating they can still go to the schools and increase their skills by one of two ways as I see it. 1st They can go in a pod which concord ignores and hope someone does not pod kill them. (if I am wrong then someone please state so) Remember pod killing in not looked on favorably at all and reduces your sec rating when u do it (again if I am wrong someone please say so). 2nd they can create an alt character to transport their stuff to high sec systems and sell and again get more skills to advance their pirate character. And do not tell me it is not possible because all u have to do is put the alt character in the same corp. and drop the stuff u want him or her to move into the corp. hanger, log out and enter the game as the alt character take the stuff out of the corp. hanger and be on your marry way. Game realistic need to be for everyone. This means those who want to be pirates need to be subject to realistic punishments. Player pirates should be restricted to playing only one character, that being the pirate one (this means that an alt character should be locked out and not playable) and player pirates below -5 sec rating should not be allowed to dock in stations within the systems of the empires they are in bad standings with (this is the pirates that if in high sec systems can be shoot at by anyone at will) or at least in stations within systems with the highest sec ratings like .9 and 1.0 systems. Player pirates should at least be subject to some kind of high level extortion by the station owner in order to enter stations of the empires they are in bad standing with. Maybe even an internal police force that searches out other characters that help pirates get the stuff they need from the high sec systems and schools and punish them as well (you know just like internal affairs does in real life but in game I. A. would be randomly liking at all characters in the game. Maybe even random concord spawns in low sec systems that jump out on player pirates in an effect to bring them to justice (not like npcÆs do in belts but rather right were the player pirates are in the system). Lets face it if u do the crime u need to do the time and blatantly showing your face in high sec systems as a player pirate without being engaged by concord is not realistic. Point in question is this non player characters can be engaged at will in low sec but I challenge anyone to show where player pirates who are not engaged by concord are engaged at will be non player characters. I think u will find that the latter of the last sentence is virtually non-existent. In real life if a criminal walked up to or by the police would not be ignored, the police would not just set there and do nothing, nor would an empire continuously do business with them as if they never did anything wrong once they made it into the station. I am not sure if any of these things would help other players feel as if they can enjoy the whole game or not but I can tell u this I have played the game sense it came out of beta with the exception of leaving the game for a while because player pirates in the beginning had many exploits that just made the game not fun to play. I came back about 4 months ago and I still see that this game is for the most part favorable to being a player pirate. I really do not care if a player is a pirate or not (to each his own kind of thing) I just would like to see a better balance of realistic game play between player pirates and non player pirates. All of this can be done according to a players sec rating.
GATEKEEPER Space Odyssey Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:16:00 - [2] Of course research would need to be done on how this would impact the game before ccp made any decisions on how to do this. With everyone talking about risk v reward where is the risk for player pirates when it comes to high sec rating other than if they are below -5 sec rating being auto attacked by concord. I am sure that are ways to address this and I am sure that there will be players say that I am wining. For those who do if it makes u feel better fine, but remember this player pirates complain to. They complain about ccp doing things that makes it harder for them to just go out and kill other player at will everywhere and anywhere they want to. The secret to any game is this making it enjoyable for everyone to play player pirate or not while keeping a comfortable balance with fairness for everyone. And in my opinion there are many players out there who feel that at this point in the game player pirates have most if not all the advantages the game has to offer with not as much risk as non player pirates have to face where experiencing the whole game is in concern. And before anyone says I just do not like being killed in low sec let me say this I have been killed in low sec a .4 system to be exacted. I was ratting for over an hour before it happened. Losing my ship was my fault though. I was to busy talking to a friend in the corp. channel and not paying attention to the local channel to see if anyone was in the system with me as well as not paying attention to my computer screen watching for other players to warp into the belt that I was in. lesson learned for me. So this post is not about winning but rather it is about making sure the game is played to its fullest potential for everyone and has a comfortable balance of everything from risk and reward to punishment and penalties etc. I sincerely hope the devs read this and give some thought this subject. Finally for anyone who feels that I am just complaining I challenge you to prove me wrong. Prove that player pirates in pods with a sec rating below -5 are not ignored by concord and can not dock in stations. Prove that player pirates can not make alt characters and use them to move their player pirate loot into high sec systems for them. Prove that having a random internal police looking for characters who help criminals is not something that happens in real life. Prove that in real life police do not raid criminal strong holds in an effect to bring them to justice making a random spawn of concord in low sec system against player pirates unrealistic for the game. Prove that player pirates should be able to enjoy the whole game without realistic punishments that fit their sec ratings within the game (I. E. docking in stations and buying skills and other things from the very same corps and empires that consider them enemies).
Zeba Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:17:00 - [3] tl;dr --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:18:00 - [4] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 24/03/2008 04:21:07 I can read it now! \/ Edit You went way too deep on the alt transport thing... you get stuff, and just contract it to your alt, then contract stuff from the alt back to your main. also, why would CCP stop me from having more accounts because my main is an outlaw? Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:22:00 - [5] Making progress, I was able to read the first 3 lines of every paragraph ...and regarding the post itself, you can't really 'stop' pirates having alts, with multiple accounts and all... ...
Suboran Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:27:00 - [6] if you restrict them they will just make alts to buy skill books ect
GATEKEEPER Space Odyssey Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:27:00 - [7] i see your point on the alt character thing nothing is ever perfect and everything would need alot of research andthought into it to see how it would impact the game but it is something to think about where realistic play is concerned when comparing game play to real life and wanting it to be as close to real life as it can be
GATEKEEPER Space Odyssey Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:29:00 - [8] i see your point on the alt character thing nothing is ever perfect and everything would need alot of research and thought into it to see how it would impact the game but it is something to think about where realistic play is concerned when comparing game play to real life and wanting it to be as close to real life as it can be
MrTripps Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:30:00 - [9] Its always funny when a new player decides to tell the devs how to change their game. PVP does not exist in any way to be more "realistic." PVP exists in Eve because PVP is the point of the game. "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson.
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:40:00 - [10] I wish CCP would just make it so that money and goods cannot be traded between alternate characters. _____________ Hai.
Aclyn Seriy Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Falcon Troy I wish CCP would just make it so that the game sucked harder than a hoover There is nothing wrong with the way things are. The most useful, but admittedly annoying, phrase I've learned is "Adapt or quit". Try it.
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 24/03/2008 04:50:07 Originally by: Aclyn Seriy There is nothing wrong with the way things are. The most useful, but admittedly annoying, phrase I've learned is "Adapt or quit". Try it. No, that's just a tired phrase you use to backhand any ideas of change that may actually force YOU to adapt or die. Irony is hilarious. _____________ Hai.
del Taco Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:49:00 - [13] can i have ur stuff?
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:49:00 - [14] I am the keymaster Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
Aclyn Seriy Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:54:00 - [15] Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 24/03/2008 04:55:51 Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 24/03/2008 04:50:07 Originally by: Aclyn Seriy There is nothing wrong with the way things are. The most useful, but admittedly annoying, phrase I've learned is "Adapt or quit". Try it. No, that's just a tired phrase you use to backhand any ideas of change that may actually force YOU to adapt or die. Irony is something I dont understand. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I DID adapt. I left EVE 2 years ago, now Im back and things have changed, ALOT. But Ive adapted to the way things are now and Im getting along just fine. I wasn't meaning to be rude, Im just a little tired, but my original point still stands, adapt or quit.
Falcon Troy Awesome People Secret Corp	Posted - 2008.03.24 04:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Sorry to burst your bubble, but I DID adapt. I left EVE 2 years ago, now Im back and things have changed, ALOT. But Ive adapted to the way things are now and Im getting along just fine. I wasn't meaning to be rude, Im just a little tired, but my original point still stands, adapt or quit. Editing quoted posts isn't witty, sorry. MY post still stands since I don't care how you long you left the game because you're still sour on something that might change your status quo in EVE. _____________ Hai.
Aclyn Seriy Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.24 05:02:00 - [17] Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 24/03/2008 05:02:20 Edited for tiredness related spelling errors Im not sour at all, and I apologise for editing your post that was childish of me. I'll just leave it here as Im tired and making no sense even to myself. Sweet dreams.
Tellenta White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.24 05:24:00 - [18] Having not run into any pirates in my local pub, at least that I know of I can not dig up a reasonable real life comparison that you so desire. But I will say, You are the gate keeper. Pirates are your key master, bend over this will just hurt for a second.
Tellenta White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.24 05:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Orion Eridanus I am the keymaster yah beat meh
Farrqua Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:12:00 - [20] Now what are you going to do with the player with multiple accounts? Are you wanting to ban payed accounts? Most players now have multiple accounts now. So lets say for arguments sake I am an anti-pirate. Now what? I get screwed for fighting back? So now the care bear with an army full of alts and accounts have a great economic advantage over me, is that fair? Should we restrict them to so many alts and accounts after they have amassed "x"? So now with peeps buying characters form the eve-o and filling there alt slots, which one is there main? Are you locking his alt or main? Or does it really matter because the alt/main has a lo sec status and all his alts that are care-bearish are now locked and unplayable? Limiting a players avenues of play is not right. Everyone pays there 15$ to log in. What happens after that is up to the individual. If i wish to have three different persona's and log into a persona based on what I want to do that is up to me. Not you or ant one else. As far as tracking the contracts and movements of supplies, it will be a logistical night mare and they would get around that so fast it would make you head spin.
Syniztur Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:37:00 - [21] Your wall-o-text still hurts the eyes -------------------------------------------------- \| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! \| --------------------------------------------------
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:42:00 - [22] Limit everyone to one character? Yeah that'd be nice, but it'll never happen. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Alexia Kior Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:46:00 - [23] Originally by: GATEKEEPER Finally for anyone who feels that I am just complaining I challenge you to prove me wrong. a) Prove that player pirates in pods with a sec rating below -5 are not ignored by concord and can not dock in stations. b) Prove that player pirates can not make alt characters and use them to move their player pirate loot into high sec systems for them. c) Prove that having a random internal police looking for characters who help criminals is not something that happens in real life. d) Prove that in real life police do not raid criminal strong holds in an effect to bring them to justice making a random spawn of concord in low sec system against player pirates unrealistic for the game. e) Prove that player pirates should be able to enjoy the whole game without realistic punishments that fit their sec ratings within the game (I. E. docking in stations and buying skills and other things from the very same corps and empires that consider them enemies). Okay. a) You misunderstand the role of the concord. It's not to catch pirates preying upon some podpilots, it's there to "foster the fragile relationship between the empires and act as a meeting place where they could discuss their differences and hammer out a compromise solution." (see http://www.eve-online.com/corporations/c_1000125.asp ). Concord just keeps peace and blows anything up that threathens the peace between the empires and that's it. It is not the police nor a judge, it does not care about your perceived crimes, it just makes sure that anyone shooting someone in space which they have declared to be protected is taken out, and that's it. b) Of course they can. But it's not the concord's or the empire's job to stop them, it's yours. see a) c) Of course there's police IRL looking for such people. But under whose jurisdiction would a caldari pilot killing a minmatar pilot in gallente space in front of a amarr station be? Empires are separate entities and in EVE, they cannot govern what happens in each other's space. Besides, empires seem to feel that since pod pilots are immortal, it's a-ok to shoot them, since there's no standing loss against different empires when you pod their citizens. Perhaps they just consider that it's just a part of their wargame that they both like to participate in. Besides, how would you go stopping someone who is immortal (due to clones), has enough wealth to set up stations in deep 0.0 and can simply buy off stations/organizations that would annoy him or have them, their families, their friends and even high-school classmates simply disappear by spending some ISK. Podpilots are, according to the backstory, spoiled insanely rich demigod-wannabes playing wargames in deep space having very little to do with the common scum of the society. d) Read a) and c). Concord does not care about your perceived crimes and who shoots whom in space they do not govern. e) Empires do not concern them enemies. Pirates can have perfect standings towards many empires. The sec rating is just the standing towards concord. The loss of sec rating is just means that concord turns a blind eye if someone wants to beat them up in a dark alley. Is that good enough.
Kyra Felann Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.24 08:48:00 - [24] TL;DR
Priest Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:02:00 - [25] Being able to play more than one account is abused at every step of the game. Unfortunately there is nothing CCP can do about it since trying to prevent it is time consuming , and income lowering job for them. On the other hand if you don't meta-game, and he doesn't do it, and she doesn't do it, one day there might be enough people creating the universe you dream of. It is not about CCP changing the game, it is about if you can stay in this environment without changing yourself. That will answer your question. May Blessings Be With You Priest Amarr
VinkNut Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.24 09:46:00 - [26] What is with all the whines of recent about pirates... If you dont like it gtfo or stick to 1.0 space, what makes there play style any less important than your own? and why should an already very hard proffesion by made less attractive. If anything player pirating needs some love and the secruity status system looking at.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:02:00 - [27] i love how high sec veld suckers like to dictate how pvp should be and how pvpers should be :P nubins ---------------------------------- This is Me, fighting stupidity one post at a time. PS: There are no computer BUGs, there is stuff called "Random Features"
Ey'up Miduck Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:03:00 - [28] The OP is missing the point imho. Even pirates have friends, so banning alts for pirate characters seems unfair. Also, banning alts won't achieve much because most players have a second character anyway! Also I don't have a problem with pirates visiting high-sec space, as long as they behave themselves there. In rl, criminals walk around looking like any other respectable citizen unless they are committing a criminal act at the time, so why should EVE be any different? And yes my main is a care-bear...
VinkNut Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:14:00 - [29] What about removing the restriction of secruity status dictating where you can go in empire, but it means if your minus anything your ok to shoot, and below minus 5 your ok to pod. OMFGFDGFD?G??!?!?! suicide ganking will go mad! Well how so? Do you not think the people suicide ganking at the moment are alts of pirates/0.0 pvpers etc, if they could use there mains instead of having to use alts (due to the restrictions placed and the extremley large time to raise your sec status back up in comparison to how long it takes to drop) I dont think for one min that everyone will use there mains, but a large proportion would, higher skills can do more DPS etc, why use an alt? Maybe to slow the pace down after having killed somone in +0.5 concord will kill any ship they see you in for an hour, limiting the ammount of suicide ganks possible. And I know i've gone off about suicide ganking but that is apart of the greater picture, due to the fact low sec is so sparcley populated the pirates/pvpers go onto suicide gank to earn a decent ammount of cash. It also means if you are suicide ganked by a main, you will know in future who to look out for in local, and you can hold them/corp responsible allowing you to wardec them and give out abit of justice of your own Im sure there is many holes in that idea, but hey nothings perfect just like the current system hehehe!
Ki An Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:21:00 - [30] My severe ADD prevents me from reading paragraphs more than 2 inches thick. I am also busy with planning the mugging of old ladies I'm doing tonight. Is the OP saying pirates in Eve have it easy? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
VinkNut Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:22:00 - [31] yes, yes he is
Roxanna Kell FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:38:00 - [32] soon as i hit the part about: player pirates should only be ristricted to one char. i lost intrest in reading. byyyyyyyyyyyyye. Quote: You are what you are, fool
N'irrti Reach Fuileach	Posted - 2008.03.24 10:49:00 - [33] lulz
astowv UK Space Alliance Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:04:00 - [34] Yes the multi-account stuffz is abused. I think slapping a miner on a roid should lead to instant banning of all your second and third, etc accounts. And you should be free game for anyone to shoot. Afterall your playing the game your way, and having fun. CCP never intended you to have fun and stuffz. The part where you can activate a gun on another player is just a bug. You should petition it, stating: "OMGBBQJIZUZGIMMEMYSTUFFZBACK!" ----
Fiorenza Hoppity's Burrow	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:44:00 - [35] Most things in Eve could be balanced by the more creative use of money. A problem at the moment is that some activities really have little potential cost. Oh dear IÆve lost my frigate trying to hijack someoneÆs billion ISK cargo. In the so-called æreal worldÆ pirates donÆt just get their little boats taken away. Security status should be linked to a system-generated reward system. Kill a criminal, make some money û including in secure space. But the important thing is that the reward should come out of the criminalÆs (or their corpÆs) pocket. And the system should allow them to go into debt û if the reward leaves you too broke to replace your ship, tough. WeÆll give you a noob frigate and you can mine your way back. So the penalty has to be big enough to ensure that even criminals with wealthy alts have to think twice. You can be Billy the Kid, but you have to keep on out-running the posse. On the other side of the law it would encourage hundreds more players to try PvP û get a few buddies together and go and find some bad guys. More fun, more mayhem all round.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:53:00 - [36] The OP, and by association this whole thread, is wrong. Realism has absolutely NOTHING to do with things in Eve Online. /end thread [center] Old blog
Tuberider Pothouse Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.24 11:56:00 - [37] Please come and kill me, being a pirate i got it too easy i promise to play with both hands tied behind my back and a blindfold on to make it kinky
Astral Fox The Infinite Eye	Posted - 2008.03.24 13:14:00 - [38] FFS - next time, PLEASE remove the punctuation & switch your caps-lock ON - it'll make your posts much easier to read..... http://www.voogru.com/images/signature/farmers.jpg

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