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[Fitting] L4 Apocalypse loadouts

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Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.24 23:18:00 - [1] Greetings, I just get my first Apocalypse. And i'm doing L4 missions for the Caldari Navy..here is what i fit : High slots : 8 x Mega Beam Lasers I Med slots : 1 x Heavy Electromical cap booster with 800 charges 3 x Cap recharger IIs Lowslots : 1 x LAR II 4 x specific active hardeners 1 Heat Sink II 1 x 1600 plate. Drones : 5 med II and 5 small II Rigs : 1 x Trimark 1 x Nano Pump 1 x Nanobot Accelator. I'm doing good DPS with my skills....but the tank is not that good. For example i can't tank 5-6 BS and 5-6 to 10 BC and some frigates at the same time. ANy ideas? Thanks :-) Aaspa. PS : i'm ok to change my rigs
Xanos Blackpaw The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.25 01:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 25/03/2008 01:40:46 your fitting make my eyes hurt! ok first, with the range bonus on the apoc you should use pulses ok here is a good fitting 8 best named mega pulses 4 cap recharger T2(easy to train for!) 2 large armor reps(also easy to train for) 4 resists 1 best cpr or a heatsink depending on your skills rigs: as many CCC rigs as you need to perma run the rest of the ship and then fill the rest with aux nano pumps Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.25 08:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Edited by: Xanos Blackpaw on 25/03/2008 01:40:46 your fitting make my eyes hurt! ok first, with the range bonus on the apoc you should use pulses ok here is a good fitting 8 best named mega pulses 4 cap recharger T2(easy to train for!) 2 large armor reps(also easy to train for) 4 resists 1 best cpr or a heatsink depending on your skills rigs: as many CCC rigs as you need to perma run the rest of the ship and then fill the rest with aux nano pumps lol......:-( i meant 8 mega PULSE not BEAMs..... The thing is i can't remove the rigs now.....damn :-( but with the cap booster i can run everything during a long time....
Iron Wraith Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.03.25 12:45:00 - [4] well i guess a lot depends on your skills, but there are some easy tweaks to make your ship tank better. use the suggested fit posted above, its very close to the fit i used before rigs existed and seemed to work fine. now we have rigs she should be quite a bit better. the reason that setup works better than yours is because it focuses on tanking more damage than the rats can do. if you can tank more damage than the rats can do then you have the perfect tank. your setup gives you some buffer of time to kill enough rats to be able to cope with the damage the rest do. this tactic tends to only work when you have low skills and cant out tank the rats. if you can out tank the rats then the buffer is kinda pointless. check out your defence in EFT vs the different rats. the tanking guide on www.eve-survival.org has some useful numbers for you to plug into EFT for doing that. when your cap stable you will probably find the nano pumps give you a better defence than the accelerators. so if you do have some spare rig slots after the CCC's fill em with the nano pumps. also the accelerators will put more strain on your cap, another drawback to them. take a peak at the abaddon too. i took my old pulse and dual rep fit and applied it to the abbadon, it came out with more tank and more damage. dont know if it will work for you as i have BS lvl4 and my skills all in the 4's and 5's, but it has to be worth a look. range will then be your only problem, i use 2 webby drones to help me close into range. the apoc shouldn't have as much trouble with range thanks to its new range boost. check out both ships in EFT and see what you think. Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots: [2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.25 23:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Iron Wraith well i guess a lot depends on your skills, but there are some easy tweaks to make your ship tank better. use the suggested fit posted above, its very close to the fit i used before rigs existed and seemed to work fine. now we have rigs she should be quite a bit better. the reason that setup works better than yours is because it focuses on tanking more damage than the rats can do. if you can tank more damage than the rats can do then you have the perfect tank. your setup gives you some buffer of time to kill enough rats to be able to cope with the damage the rest do. this tactic tends to only work when you have low skills and cant out tank the rats. if you can out tank the rats then the buffer is kinda pointless. check out your defence in EFT vs the different rats. the tanking guide on www.eve-survival.org has some useful numbers for you to plug into EFT for doing that. when your cap stable you will probably find the nano pumps give you a better defence than the accelerators. so if you do have some spare rig slots after the CCC's fill em with the nano pumps. also the accelerators will put more strain on your cap, another drawback to them. take a peak at the abaddon too. i took my old pulse and dual rep fit and applied it to the abbadon, it came out with more tank and more damage. dont know if it will work for you as i have BS lvl4 and my skills all in the 4's and 5's, but it has to be worth a look. range will then be your only problem, i use 2 webby drones to help me close into range. the apoc shouldn't have as much trouble with range thanks to its new range boost. check out both ships in EFT and see what you think. Thanks for your reply. I have many tank skills to L4 or L5, Engineering skills at L4 and L5, but Large Energy Turret L3...skilling for Amarr L4..so i can fit it quite easily
Msobe Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.26 12:56:00 - [6] Two problems with your set up - once you understand them, you're golden. Xanos's set up is solid, here's why its better than yours. First, cap recharge. You have cap rechargers and a cap booster. If you want to boost, save the slots for something else. If you want rechargers, fit enough that you don't need the boost. Some people do fit both, I've tried it, and think its best if you do one or the other. For missions, I prefer to fit rechargers. Second, the tanking issue. For pve, you don't want to fit mods/rigs that give you more HP. PvE survival is all about taking less damage than you can rep. So every tank slot should be either dedicated to reducing your incoming damage (resists) or repping (LAR). With 1 LAR2 and 3-4 specific hardeners, you don't need anything else. Drop the plate and put on another heat sink, drop the trimark for another nano pump or CCC - and then swap a cap recharger for TC, TP, web . . . up to you. Once you got the reasons behind wanting to make those tweaks, you'll find you have a better time tailoring your fittings for each mission, and things go a lot faster and smoother that way.
Dormuth Purifier FREE GATES ACADEMY	Posted - 2008.03.26 13:23:00 - [7] Mine looks like this: [Apocalypse 2, mission] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hobgoblin I x1 Hammerhead I x2 Ogre I x2
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.26 16:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Msobe Two problems with your set up - once you understand them, you're golden. Xanos's set up is solid, here's why its better than yours. First, cap recharge. You have cap rechargers and a cap booster. If you want to boost, save the slots for something else. If you want rechargers, fit enough that you don't need the boost. Some people do fit both, I've tried it, and think its best if you do one or the other. For missions, I prefer to fit rechargers. Second, the tanking issue. For pve, you don't want to fit mods/rigs that give you more HP. PvE survival is all about taking less damage than you can rep. So every tank slot should be either dedicated to reducing your incoming damage (resists) or repping (LAR). With 1 LAR2 and 3-4 specific hardeners, you don't need anything else. Drop the plate and put on another heat sink, drop the trimark for another nano pump or CCC - and then swap a cap recharger for TC, TP, web . . . up to you. Once you got the reasons behind wanting to make those tweaks, you'll find you have a better time tailoring you r fittings for each mission, and things go a lot faster and smoother that way. I know you're right. The thing is, i have tried 2 LAR, 4 hardeners and heat sink II, it works very good. In med, maybe i'll try to remove the cap booster if EFT tells me that my cap recharge rate is faster than the cap i consume.
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.26 17:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Dormuth Purifier Edited by: Dormuth Purifier on 26/03/2008 13:25:49 Mine looks like this: [Apocalypse 2, mission] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Standard L Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hobgoblin I x1 Hammerhead I x2 Ogre I x2 Cap stable down to Gamma's, with Multifreq its hold for 13 min, so more than enough, shoot out to 48 km optimal with standard and tracking is better than a medium beam has:)So cruisers are not a problem. Wow.....can you do L4 with that? lol
Dormuth Purifier FREE GATES ACADEMY	Posted - 2008.03.26 18:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Aaspa Wow.....can you do L4 with that? lol ??? What's the problem with that? It has almost as good tank as an Abaddon...And DPS with much better tracking.Are you feel like trolling today?
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.26 23:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Dormuth Purifier Originally by: Aaspa Wow.....can you do L4 with that? lol ??? What's the problem with that? It has almost as good tank as an Abaddon...And DPS with much better tracking.Are you feel like trolling today? No i'm not trolling...the thing is you have probably cap problems because you don't have as much cap modes as possible.......you don't have a lot of resists....2 Heat Sink II and one tarcking enhancer, 1 LAR.....i'm just wondering how you manage to do level 4s....and no offence !
Manus Stuprare Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.27 02:22:00 - [12] Idea with this kind of setup is to kill things at range before they can do enough damage to overwhelm your tank. The best defence is a good offence and all that :)
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.27 08:58:00 - [13] Quote: I just get my first Apocalypse. And i'm doing L4 missions for the Caldari Navy And here is your first problem. Laserboats are... suboptimal for Caldari missions to put it mildly. You could probably increase your revenue by 70%+ if you move to an Amarr agent or switch to a missile- or railboat. As far as the fitting goes, nuff said already in this thread. Basic items for a good mission Apoc these days is 8 Megapulse and 2 HS. Build the rest around it and keep in mind you do not need to tank permanently but just long enough to kill the NPCs. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Msobe Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.03.27 13:25:00 - [14] Yep. There's no point being 100% cap stable. If you can turn everything on and walk away for 8 hours, come back and still have cap with everything running - that's overkill. You never need to run everything in a mission for 8 hours, do you? I shoot for running everything for 8 min or so, and in practice never run out of cap. Once you have half the aggro rats dead, you won't need to keep the repper on, anyways. The only worry is with nossing rats that you didn't kill before they got in range. The solution to that is to kill them before they get in range. ;-)
Iron Wraith Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.03.27 18:00:00 - [15] cap stable and tank heavy ships are great for fighting the lag monster. i personally prefer to get a ship like that first then work on one thats a bit more exciting to fly. when i have my bread and butter ship as a backup i can have fun with a more risky ship, if it gets bitten by the lag monster then at least i have the ability to earn it all back with my solid but slow mission runner. so, both tactics are good, and its just down to personal preference. Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots: [2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.27 20:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Quote: I just get my first Apocalypse. And i'm doing L4 missions for the Caldari Navy And here is your first problem. Laserboats are... suboptimal for Caldari missions to put it mildly. You could probably increase your revenue by 70%+ if you move to an Amarr agent or switch to a missile- or railboat. As far as the fitting goes, nuff said already in this thread. Basic items for a good mission Apoc these days is 8 Megapulse and 2 HS. Build the rest around it and keep in mind you do not need to tank permanently but just long enough to kill the NPCs. I'm to lazy to change for an Amarr agent and i'm not fond of missiles boats. I just want to have fun and make some isk Thanks for your advices...but what does HS stand for?
Manus Stuprare Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.27 20:43:00 - [17] HS = Heat sink
Rialtor Yarrrateers	Posted - 2008.03.27 22:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Rialtor on 27/03/2008 22:03:07 Originally by: Aaspa Greetings, I just get my first Apocalypse. And i'm doing L4 missions for the Caldari Navy..here is what i fit : I'm to lazy to change for an Amarr agent and i'm not fond of missiles boats. I just want to have fun and make some isk Unless you want to run missions for Amarrian agents do not use Amarrian ships for missions. You won't have fun, and you won't make ISK. I promise you that. Shooting Guristas with lasers is like a one-legged man in a butt kicking contest. And that's to put it lightly. But t1 pulses will never work to hit at those distances. You need t2 pulses, or beams to make it work. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.27 22:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Rialtor But t1 pulses will never work to hit at those distances. You need t2 pulses, or beams to make it work. Actually the beauty of the new Apoc is that T1 pulses DO work at mission relevant ranges on it. Out to 55ish km you can get 600+ dps with T2 guns and faction HS. Beyond that it gets lackluster, but you still do 450ish at 80km. This is (ab)using the lack of stacking penalties between optimal mods and rigs of course, but hey, if it works, it works... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Aaspa Echolalia.	Posted - 2008.03.28 17:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Rialtor Edited by: Rialtor on 27/03/2008 22:03:07 Originally by: Aaspa Greetings, I just get my first Apocalypse. And i'm doing L4 missions for the Caldari Navy..here is what i fit : I'm to lazy to change for an Amarr agent and i'm not fond of missiles boats. I just want to have fun and make some isk Unless you want to run missions for Amarrian agents do not use Amarrian ships for missions. You won't have fun, and you won't make ISK. I promise you that. Shooting Guristas with lasers is like a one-legged man in a butt kicking contest. And that's to put it lightly. But t1 pulses will never work to hit at those distances. You need t2 pulses, or beams to make it work. As i said, i just want to have fun and i'm having fun....even if Amarr ships are not suited for Caldari agents i can take all L4 mission alone, except the fifth part of Ennemies Abound but well, this is normal And i make more DPS than most of my friends flying Caldari ships...and they don't have bad skills at all......

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