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Destras
Torpedos Make the World Go Round
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
0
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tech 3 Mining Barge
What I am proposing is not an over the top bat out of hell mining machine that will turn belts to shreds and that you could mine a small moon with just because you think it would be fun. As you will see the concept behind the Tech 3 Modular Barge is adaptability and interchangeability in order to meet varying demands and give us the potential to go deeper into more dangerous space to reach those harder to acquire minerals. There are strengths and pitfalls with the set up as well, in order to make it capable of great speed or yield you must sacrifice something, as true with most things in Eve (tank or gank).
ORE mining ships are inherently shield based tanks, doing an Armor tank or Hull tank on the mining ship is beyond silly due to reasons that I feel are obvious enough that they need not to be explained here (LACK OF LOW SLOTS). Calculations have been run on the subsystems and compared to their essential Tech 2 counterparts to ensure that there is little to no improvements and in some cases inferior yield/cycle results to keep this ship from being the dominant force in mining (IE Hulk). The primary improvements are increased cargo and stronger tank, however said improvements cause you to make a decision on the bonuses your ship gets. Such improvements will be covered further below in greater detail. The difficult aspect of the design of a Tech 3 Mining Barge is incorporating those bonuses from Tech 1 and Tech 2 barges to ensure that it is a steady improvement upon the previous generation of mining barges.
*Disclaimer*
These are rough numbers and skill layout, they are subject to changes.
We have attempted to get them as close to identical if not lower than the intended Tech 2 counterpart.
The Ship attributes are excluded from this due balancing concerns that CCP adjust to keep it in line.
This is just focusing on Subsystems and their bonuses.
Math numbers are coming as soon as Black Wave can clean it up.
*Note*
GÇó All bonuses are Per Skill Level.
GÇóBase ship hull can use the same bonus that normal Tech 3 ships use -5% reduction to heat damage. Mining lasers are not affected by overheating so at best this would allow a player an ace in the hole to stretch what tank they have.
GÇóBy equipping a tanking oriented mod you will lose roughly 10% total yield, by fitting a full compliment of tanking subs that will be upwards of 20%.
GÇóEquipping both mining oriented Astronautic and Engineering subs the ship will outperform the Hulk by roughly 1% with just skills and roughly 3% when using max gear and fleet bonuses.
GÇóThe ship will outperform the Hulk in Ice mining but still loses out to the Mackinaw in efficiency.
GÇóFor Mercoxit miners we added a sub for you, itGÇÖs a total of roughly 1% net loss to the Skiff but you gain a more durable vessel.
GÇóGas Miners rejoice, we have brought to you a ship designed for gas mining. You guys can harvest your gas without fear of losing your ship to the cloud.
ORE Astronautics Subsystem
Base Cargo
2 Low Slots & 1 Mid Slot
1st Bonus: -2% Cycle Time
2nd Bonus: +2% Ore Yield
Cargo/Tank Mix
2 Low Slots & 1 Mid Slot
1st Bonus: +2% Capacitor Amount
2nd Bonus: +2% Shield HP
Max Cargo
3 Low Slots
1st Bonus: +2% Cargo
ORE Engineering Subsystem
Active Tank
4 Mid Slots
1st Bonus: +4% Shield Boost Amount
Passive Tank
4 Mid Slots
1st Bonus: +4% Shield Resists
No Tank
3 Mid Slots
1st Bonus: +2% Ore Yield
ORE Mining Subsystem
Ore & Ice
3 High Slots
1st Bonus: -2% Ice Cycle Time
2nd Bonus: +2% Ore Yield
Gas
5 High Slots
1st Bonus: +15% Harvest Amount
Deepcore
3 High Slots
1st Bonus: +20% Chance to not form gas cloud
2nd Bonus: -5% Mercoxit Yield
Ship Skill Requirements:
GÇóORE Strategic Miner
.......oExhumer V
.......oORE Astronautics 1
.............néºHull Upgrades V
.......oORE Engineering 1
.............néºEngineering V
.......oORE Mining 1
.............néºMining Upgrades V
Project Team:
Destras
Black Wave |
Velicitia
Open Designs
663
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
it could be viable, or at least you're not seemingly falling into the "it would be cool to have" trap ... but I really have to sit down and crunch the numbers to have a better opinion on it.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
1016
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Posted - 2012.02.23 21:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd like to see max yield and tank numbers for T2 fits. That would be the most telling comparison to the hulk and mack. |
Destras
Torpedos Make the World Go Round
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 22:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I'd like to see max yield and tank numbers for T2 fits. That would be the most telling comparison to the hulk and mack.
Cant give you tank numbers due to needing a lot of information we dont have and arent looking at. We would need stats such as Shield HP, Regen, Cap amt, Cap regen, CPU, Powergrid, base Shield resists. That is something that CCP can look at to keep the tank in line. For all intents and purposes the fitting slots have been taken from the Hulk. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
741
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Posted - 2012.02.23 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
First off, Exhumer 5 is a bit crazy to require, the SOP is for advanced T2 ships to require lvl 4 in their next smaller predecessor (CovOps 4 for BlackOps, AF 4 for HAC, HAC 4 for DPS CSes, etc) or for T3 ships to require lvl 5 in their associated T1 skill (Cal Cruiser 5 for Cal Strat Cruiser, etc). So either Barges 5 or Exhumer 4 would be more realistic requirements.
Second, I don't think anything should out-perform the Hulk/Mac at their roles (mining and icing respectively). The general purpose of T3s is to be able to do a variety of things, but slightly worse than their specialized T2 counterparts. So I would like to see similar fits of this ship max out at 95% of the Hulk's yield (after accounting for MLUs and all bonuses).
Third, as Velicitia said, don't fall into the trap of "It would be cool" and forget that things need a purpose. If there is a need for the ship (and it seems like it would fill the role of gas miner and more agile and tanky miner for lowsec) then that's ok, but if there isn't, then it shouldn't be in the game. Also watch out for ways to break it in players' favor; because players can and will figure out how to break it.
All in all though, it's more more solid a proposal than many I've seen on these forums. I think it has a bit of promise if polished up properly. |
Destras
Torpedos Make the World Go Round
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
mxzf wrote:First off, Exhumer 5 is a bit crazy to require, the SOP is for advanced T2 ships to require lvl 4 in their next smaller predecessor (CovOps 4 for BlackOps, AF 4 for HAC, HAC 4 for DPS CSes, etc) or for T3 ships to require lvl 5 in their associated T1 skill (Cal Cruiser 5 for Cal Strat Cruiser, etc). So either Barges 5 or Exhumer 4 would be more realistic requirements.
Second, I don't think anything should out-perform the Hulk/Mac at their roles (mining and icing respectively). The general purpose of T3s is to be able to do a variety of things, but slightly worse than their specialized T2 counterparts. So I would like to see similar fits of this ship max out at 95% of the Hulk's yield (after accounting for MLUs and all bonuses).
Third, as Velicitia said, don't fall into the trap of "It would be cool" and forget that things need a purpose. If there is a need for the ship (and it seems like it would fill the role of gas miner and more agile and tanky miner for lowsec) then that's ok, but if there isn't, then it shouldn't be in the game. Also watch out for ways to break it in players' favor; because players can and will figure out how to break it.
All in all though, it's more more solid a proposal than many I've seen on these forums. I think it has a bit of promise if polished up properly.
I'll conceed the first point, and will be adjusting the proposal to reflect that.
As for the 2nd point, I respectfully disagree as there are instances of T3 ships simply outperforming their T2 counterparts for all the races.
The 3rd point is exactly that, it is a ship intended to give gas miners what they need and provide a more durable solution for the hostile enviroment that is Low/Null sec. Putting any of the designated Tanking subs on the Modular ship puts it considerably below its counterpart in terms of industrial performance. |
Destras
Torpedos Make the World Go Round
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 11:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
discuss |
Smooth Hualing
Torpedos Make the World Go Round
Slacker Trade Federation Unlimited
0
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Posted - 2012.03.10 02:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
boy any of these new minning ship ideas die on the vine quickly. I mean if u 'max out the minning' its a dam hulk + 1.1%. and CCP could fix the skill/level effects to mke it the same.
- if u put a biger tank on it for low/null u r slower then a hulk but gain tank.
- if u want to gain caro so you can solo mine better (I don't know 20k+cargo ) u lose speed
- the gas stuff and salvaging came up b/c its a Mod ORE ship and therefore should cover all ORE related stuff.
I know everyone wants to know PG, cargo CPU etc but they are hard to balance all at once.
The idea for this thread was to get a agreed upon base/starting point and then work with reviewing mods in game and trying to balance the subsystems. |
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