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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.14 21:26:00 -
[1]
We are a 100+ member corp but have found that it's almost impossible to defend our headquarters. Pirates are camping it. And when we get in to defend ourselves, there are always some near exploits that make sentry guns shot us down.
Tonight sentry guns shot down my raven and a friends scorpion. We only shot at targest in war-corp and used cruise missiles and large projectiles.
I prefer to stay in 0.0 space most of the time where concord won't kill you, but how on earth are we going to defend our newer members in empire space, when concord just have to kill us again and again? Some nice problems:
- they fly close to the stations so the cruise missiles only hit the station.
- they have alts that try to target you so you shot at them by mistake.
- obviously missiles can still get concorc at you with splash. i definetly hope that the patch xx16 will solve this for real.
Some "fixes" for this:
- enter a security switch. if you have this on, you can only shot at corps you are at war with in secure space
- fix the cruise missiles for sure!
- take away collision detection for missiles perhaps so it's possible to hit someone that is flying close to station. or make them smarter
- is it really a good way to let pirates attack anyone in 1.0 by starting a war?? I don't think so. It's almost impossible to defend the corporation. And it's also practically impossible to hire someone to defend you. I like pvp myself, but well the 20 members that left corp since they are peaceful miners obviously don't, and there is noway we can defend them really.
/Phoibos
DreamScape
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Nessaden
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Posted - 2004.04.14 21:58:00 -
[2]
I agree.
Whoever you're at war with must suck if they have to use tricks just to beat you lol.
Mind telling who it is?
"Honor and Serve" |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.14 22:13:00 -
[3]
SAS corp. he. we don't always suck that much at fighting. We got some good pvp:ers in corp, but are usually spread out. We did manage to attack with 20 peps at our best moments.
/Phoibos
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.14 22:55:00 -
[4]
One solution to the cruise missile concord problem is:
- they only do damage to the target they were aimed to. Meaning if they accidently hit a spy that just had to stand in the way, then it does no damage.
/Phoibos
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Blazyon
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Posted - 2004.04.15 04:43:00 -
[5]
lol I had just the opposite, lead his cruise missiles right into a base and the sent guns never fired =\
Pain is an object of relativity. |
Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.04.15 07:56:00 -
[6]
Here is a fix for it.
Dont use missles in places like that, you know there is a risk.
I am getting a bit tired of people that just want missle to be fire and forget and always hit.. Becuase thats what you all want:
You might as well just say it clearly: I want missiles that dont collide with anything (fly though stations and everything), they should only do splash damage to those I am at war with or have targeted, they should not have any downside to em.
Dont ruin the game with this.
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Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:16:00 -
[7]
Yesterday I lost an apoc (uninsured, almost had the money) that my small corp spent weeks mining in empire space to build (in addition to 0.0 for the megacyte and zydrine). To sentry guns. In 0.5. Against a target whom we had declared war on.
CCP really needs to fix these wars, because right now I do not trust the war system. At all.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:19:00 -
[8]
Making missiles effect only the target you aimed them at would solve 99% of the Empire War griefing.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Estios
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:38:00 -
[9]
Also some of our newer and/or unlucky members have been burnt by cowardly corps using such tricks to instigate concord ganking.
Id suggest trying not to use any missles at all and also ensure that you turn auto lock off (escape and in generic set to 0) so that when the cowards target you trying to get you accidently shoot back you dont lock them as they intend.
I dont see much CCP can do to help this situation so Id simply advise using extreme caution and avoid missles wherever possible in Empire. Sucks but thats how it is
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.04.15 13:04:00 -
[10]
this need definitly a fix, this is just lame and stupid
Wanna fly with me?
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2004.04.15 13:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Goldengamegod on 15/04/2004 13:37:33
Edited by: Goldengamegod on 15/04/2004 13:36:45
I know, make it so a missile will fly around a station or concord ship etc. if that was not the tgt, and also if it explodes near an innocent ship or station (not the tgt, not in a corp hostile to the shooter, etc.) that it's not counted as a hostile action and no damage is done. that way we can keep spread damage
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away. |
Kirsten
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Posted - 2004.04.15 16:26:00 -
[12]
how do you know its the corps alts targeting you and not just some scavenger hoping to get your loot?
i get targeted all the time in empire by people hoping i will fire back.
lame trick but its also lame to accuse others unless you know it is their alts
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.04.15 16:52:00 -
[13]
Edited by: zincol on 15/04/2004 17:12:42
"Pirates" - SAS is not a pirate corp.
Yeh i agree with missle fixes it's been a problem for a long time now with alts and such.
"splash" - Crusie dont splash it was becoz u had a direct hit on a player.
"Stations" - Missles hitting stations dont make sentries shoot you.
"Alt's" - Yes you know all about that,Alt's/Nub's stealing loot is a pain and all the nub's locking too.
Dampening should also be an act of aggression.
w00t!
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Goldengamegod
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Posted - 2004.04.15 22:06:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Goldengamegod on 15/04/2004 22:09:54
 Quote:
Edited by: zincol on 15/04/2004 17:12:42
Dampening should also be an act of aggression.
Any action on a players ship that will put a player at a disadvantage in combat should be an act of aggression and dealt with accordingly.
and the game (concord) should be able to read the player database and take action when a playey exploits his/her alt
2004.12.11 03:07:32notifyThe Serpentis Mercenary is too far away, you need to be within 54625 meters of it but are actually 13193590680251 meters away. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.04.15 23:43:00 -
[15]
Lord Gank of Fallschirmjager (a pirate corporation) who we had a fun little war against intentionally used an alt from his 2nd account in a suicide attack.
We were camping a station because his alt saw us sitting one jump out, so he undocks in a scorp (0.5 system btw) with no hardeners or mods of any kind on.. proceeds to let us lock and fire on him making no attempt to escape.. his little condor alt starts moving towards his ship, we stop firing missles and proceed to finish him off with blasters.
Extremely lame, considering splash was supposed to be removed from cruise missles entirely. Luckily me and Soraya Silvermoon (the other pilot shooting missles) are not newbs so we stopped the moment we saw his trick.
Sure its a "legitimate tactic" using body shields but the system doesn't make it a fair one. Missles that are not supposed to splash do it anyways, luring people into thinking they are safe using cruise in empire. If missles can hit neutrals, why not guns to make it fair.. a bullet from a gun aimed at a hostile hiding behind a hostage is just as likely to kill the hostage as a rocket fired from a launcher.
I can see the SWAT teams saying right now during a hostage holdup:
"Sir, should I take him out with the stinger missle?"
"Negative Lieutenant! Use the sniper rifle, EVE Online physics state it shouldn't have a problem passing through the neutral and damaging the hostile whom we are at sanctioned war with!"
"But sir.. are you sure.."
"Just do it!"
bad results.. 
Legitimate tactic in combat: Yes.
Fair in the current physics system: No.
Anyone that uses it: LAMER
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.16 01:38:00 -
[16]
I think that if the missiles only can damage the target it would be an ok quick fix for now. Sure in theory it would be better if missiles react more like in the real world. But this is not the real world, not even close. For example, to let wars be started in the middle of empire space, so that huge battles can be fought in front of normal stores and factories? Don't think that would happen. So, for example it would totally be ok for 20 tanks to attack each other in London, but..... IF they hit a bystander close with a missile then the one cops come in and nuke them with an atom bomb... :)
So i think we should focus on making the game more fun and not try to find to much semi-realism. It might just come back and bite us.
As it is now, missiles can almost not be used in empire in wars, at least not from battleships, since the risk is too high. In fact I think I prefere not to fight any wars in empire at all.
/Phoibos
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Bucon
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Posted - 2004.04.16 05:23:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Here is a fix for it.
Dont use missles in places like that, you know there is a risk.
I am getting a bit tired of people that just want missle to be fire and forget and always hit.. Becuase thats what you all want:
You might as well just say it clearly: I want missiles that dont collide with anything (fly though stations and everything), they should only do splash damage to those I am at war with or have targeted, they should not have any downside to em.
Dont ruin the game with this.
Do you want collision detection for lasers, hybrids and projectiles also?
If not, then your argument is void.
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.04.16 07:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Drakxter on 16/04/2004 07:46:46
Bucon, I am glad you find my argument valid, becuase, yes I want collision detection for lasers, hybrids and projectiles to.
This would add a new plane to eve, we would be able to use roids or other things flooting for cover.
For the alt problem, which I think is a problem though, there is only one real fix: Dont let a player be able to login with the same account twice (You cant have two clients conncected at the same time.) If people wish to buy two accounts and pay twice for playing, just so they can do a stunt like this, well then I dont think they have much of a life.
Now that I think of it, a whole new problem if you got your ways in the game, and there was no detection or splash damage: Noob corps would suffer from NO protection at all in high sec space.
As it is now you need to think twice (which some of you dont it seems  ) about attacking in high sec space with missiles and such, becuase there is a risk.
So people, think twice and plan your attacks.. And by the way, there is other weapons then missiles you know.
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Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.04.16 08:26:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Yesterday I lost an apoc (uninsured, almost had the money) that my small corp spent weeks mining in empire space to build (in addition to 0.0 for the megacyte and zydrine). To sentry guns. In 0.5. Against a target whom we had declared war on.
CCP really needs to fix these wars, because right now I do not trust the war system. At all.
There is some misunderstanding about how a war starts.
- Make a vote for war
- Wait 24h.
- If Yes, then it will be a possible sanctionable act.
- Go to sanctionable acts tab in the corp window and make it active.
- Wait for 24h before "Can fight" is Yes.
I suspect that you didn't wait for the last point.
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.16 12:05:00 -
[20]
Collision detection would be nice. So would more objects in space that have an effect in fights. But I don't think eve is mature enough for it to work good yet.
/Phoibos
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.04.16 12:59:00 -
[21]
I do think eve is, its more if CCP is up to it..
I know they can do it, but its just if they will do it.
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Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.19 02:02:00 -
[22]
Bah another problem. A friend was hunting rats in a 0.5 system. A person warps in and lands directly in his line of wire so a missile hit him. Another Megatron bites the dusts.
So hmm, rat hunting and all use of missiles are not possible in empire, that sounds pretty serious to me. to defend my corp I have now been forced to buy another bs that don't use missiles. I can't really see the fun in that.
/Phoibos
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Drakxter
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Posted - 2004.04.19 09:32:00 -
[23]
Sorry, but I have to laugh a bit, not to hurt you or anything. But are the rats in 0.5 and up really SO hard that you also need to use missiles against them?
I can see the problem of someone warping in and getting hit by the missile.
CCP could add a check that does this: If missile is fired before the player it hits (by mistake) was within 1000km then you will not take a sec hit..
That should help fix problems like that, dont you agree.
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Most tired of thing atm:
- Mods on the forum saying: "Please use the bug report page to submit bugs, the forum is not the place to post them." and then closing a topic. |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.04.19 18:39:00 -
[24]
Course not. He was just testing his setup... He has a nasty bug that often puts all his things ofline, so he usually go to a belt to test if his missiles are working. Not so cool to find out in the middle of a fight that 50% of your missile slots are ofline.
/Phoibos
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Zeinin
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Posted - 2004.04.20 11:49:00 -
[25]
better idea: instead of loosing faction standing immidiatly, send the person a bill for the "damage". if they cant pay the money, they loose standing. 
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