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Hunter cross
BBK Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:31:00 -
[1]
Before I even get into my post, this is not a whine or what race is better.
amarr ships pretty much have a role gank or tank theory,with that said. How in earth can the ships gank when they (amarr ships) have the weakiest dps out of all the turrets.? I did little bit of research on this, I notice that pusle lasers turrets top gun gives a max of 3.6 damage, compared to hybird for an example which has 5.0 damage speaking of terms of the tech 2.
I know there is advantage and disadvantage, for instance hybird blasters give out more dps with less optimal range, but yet they track faster, Which I can live with that. I'm jsut trying to understand the philsophy of amarr ships, it doesnt make sense to me.
I'm also curious, the fitting problem for the prophecy, harbinger and zealot...to name a few, are they made to only fit tech 1 turrets? keep in my mind I have my engineering, eletronics, weapon upgrades to lvl 5, also advance weapons to lvl 3. but yet I wont even think about trying to fit anything tech 2 on there ships is why i'm asking are these ships only made for tech 1 fitting? espcially the zealot, i mean its tech 2 ship, it should have enough cpu to fit tech 2 turrets, dont get me wrong i cannot use mediums tech 2 turrets yet, as of right now, I used every cpu and powergrd.
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Hunter cross
BBK Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.27 14:46:00 -
[2]
I failed to mention my suggestion to maybe fix this,I know ccp stated they are working on the amarr ships and the fact the problem is not the dps but more armor tankers then shield tankers. Is the translation to ccp is amarr ships are only good against shield tankers?
For record there is no way ccp is going to boost damage for the lasers turrets, all that will do is have even more armor tankers then shield, I suggest adjust the frequeny crystals, not more damage,but switch them, introduce crystals that favor thermal over em, as of right now its em first then thermal second.
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d3vo
Airborne Assassins
Order of the Black Cross
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:51:00 -
[3]
they did reduce the base em resistances for armor...
and plus, dps for lasers are fine i think.
you cant gank AND tank
find a balance
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Akane Miyamoto
Paisti
Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:00:00 -
[4]
Weakest DPS? Go face reality and realise the the raw DPS of lasers is on par and in most cases far supreior than hybrids
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The Miyamotos, Chapter #1.5 |
Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:10:00 -
[5]
Amarr doesn't have weakest dps. They don't have to reload, do any of you even realize that that should be taken into account?
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
Rasta we
g guild
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.27 20:11:00 -
[6]
look, i fly galente, minmatar, and amarr. now what whould u say if i said i prefered the abso to the astarte/sleipnir? ...
wonna know why? sleipnir needs ALOT of isk invested into it to make it a pwn machine.
astarte has the damage but it cant tank and its range is very low.
now for the reason i like the abso. abso has 83% resistances on EVERY armor resist. this is with ONLY 1 dmg control and 2 eanm. + 1 thermal rig. now as for gank how does 3 heat sinks sound?
no room for 2 reps? well then use 1. if u use an abso as it should be used u can win EVERY other CS with a plain t2 fit.
please for the love of god stop complaining about amarr. there is nothin wrong with it. fair enoth about the zealot with cpu problems but if the fit u tried doesnt work. try seomthign else.
just please get the skils to use the ships before u start complaining. 
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Tes Quin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 22:16:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Hunter cross
amarr ships pretty much have a role gank or tank...
this is wrong, amarr got tank and cap warfare. you cant gank+tank that good with them.
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ccp/isd, when is my portrait comming? |
Aeyar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hunter cross
...the fitting problem for the prophecy, harbinger and zealot... espcially the zealot, i mean its tech 2 ship, it should have enough cpu to fit tech 2 turrets, dont get me wrong i cannot use mediums tech 2 turrets yet, as of right now, I used every cpu and powergrd.
I dont know what exactly you tried to fit there, but the Zealot is really one of the few tech 2 ships that is perfectly fine like it is. You can fit 2 reps, dmg mods, resists and 5 heavy pulses without any probs if you want. And if you go for speed drop one of the reps... all fine really. Prophecy im actually not sure since I'm not using it, but the Harbinger was also fine the last time I equipped one. Again I dont know what you tried to fit there exactly, large reps? :)
And about damage I think Amarr are doing ok. Not the best out there probably but it's alright imo. Having the higher range can be quite nice in the cruiser/bc sized ships I think. Fit your Zealot for speed and no Gallente blaster bc/cruiser is ever gonna hit you, while you still have them in optimal range (unless some evil minnie gets you webbed). Well, that's my few thoughts about this at least.
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Draahk Chimera
Monopropellant Fools
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Posted - 2008.03.27 23:45:00 -
[9]
Ive been discussing with my friend of alot of ships and their setups. Ive come to the conclusuion that very few ships ship in game can be fit "properly". Oddly enough the ones that can are mostly tech 1. Tier 2 bc can all be fit, same for tier 3 bs. Scorp has easily enough cpu, pest mananges if it uses dual 425mm II. But anyway the list isnt long. Amarr and minmatar runs out of grid. Amarr, caldari and gallante all have cpu problems (oddly enough the technologically eakest race has no cpu problems).
To take your zealot as an example: Cerb runs out of cpu after launchers alone (pretty much). Ishtar is the hardest fitting t2 ship in game, usually has to run small guns or none at all unless nano fitted. Muninn runs out of grid after fitting guns alone. List goes on and on. Actually I think the vaga and the zealot are the 2 easiest fitting hacs in game, although both has to make compromises.
Actually, if you saw the developers interviews on EVEtv during the tournament they dont want people to use all t2. Thus certain design features such as t1 modules being alot more heat resistant then t2, and t1 ships having 1 more rig slot.
Finally in response to your gank comment. Thing is all 4 races has a different gun-approach. Caldari prefer huge range, ignoring short range ships all together. Minmatar and amarr has the longest reaching short range guns with amarr winning in both tracking, range and damage (as minnie fight in falloff while amarr fight in optimal) while minmatar obviously using no cap. And finally gallente who has no range at all but huge damage. Its a question of playing style really, if you prefer the huge damage mod insted of the range take a month or two to train gallente cruiser 5 and medium hybrid turret 5 and use a deimos instead.
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Rasta we
g guild
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.03.28 00:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Muninn runs out of grid after fitting guns alone. List goes on and on.
actualy it depends wat u fit. u can fit 650mm II easy 720mm not so easy. but if u fit AC's like me its toaly doable and u can even throw in a plate
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Hunter cross
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Posted - 2008.03.29 21:58:00 -
[11]
Wow you guys slow down there, This wasnt a complaint its more of understanding the philosphy and roles of the amarr ships, I always figured you work on your cpu and powergrids skills you be rewarded in the end.
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Buyerr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.30 15:18:00 -
[12]
now compare rails top multiplier and rof with the top beam laser and have a laugh XD
hehehe
I declare war on stupidity |
Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.30 16:41:00 -
[13]
Just comparing tank and gank. [Look away now if your offended by EFT stats]
1172dps 110,506EHP Gankgeddon
1072dps 124,203EHP Plate Mega
1025dps 168,476EHP Abaddon
That's of course not the whole story, but the raw DPS and EHP don't seem to be a problem on these set-ups. The only issues (in the BS class) are damage type and cap use.
In my opinion the damage type issues have been largely resolved since there really has to be a price to pay for that added range (though Minmatar t2 resists remain somewhat extreme. However, Amarr are supposedly the capacitor race yet all this seems to entail for their ships is being the most vulnerable to cap warfare. Decreasing laser cap use would probably be a bad idea, but adjusting the capacitor stats or laser cap bonus on the ships themselves would make them less vulnerable to cap warfare and make them better suited to employing neuts themselves.
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Buyerr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Just comparing tank and gank. [Look away now if your offended by EFT stats]
1172dps 110,506EHP Gankgeddon
1072dps 124,203EHP Plate Mega
1025dps 168,476EHP Abaddon
That's of course not the whole story, but the raw DPS and EHP don't seem to be a problem on these set-ups. The only issues (in the BS class) are damage type and cap use.
In my opinion the damage type issues have been largely resolved since there really has to be a price to pay for that added range (though Minmatar t2 resists remain somewhat extreme. However, Amarr are supposedly the capacitor race yet all this seems to entail for their ships is being the most vulnerable to cap warfare. Decreasing laser cap use would probably be a bad idea, but adjusting the capacitor stats or laser cap bonus on the ships themselves would make them less vulnerable to cap warfare and make them better suited to employing neuts themselves.
now compare that with the gank rokh, the caldari ganking gunboat (remember if you use blaster to but on the same tackling as you would on other close combat ship and mwd etc) XD
loled
I declare war on stupidity |
Doddy
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:23:00 -
[15]
LOL, dont be daft. 9 times out of 10 the amarr ship will do more damage thanks to its insane optimal. The difference in tracking speed is actually very small as well. Added to that is the point about not needing to reload and changing ammo types quick. The basic situation is that the amarr tier 1 bs can out gank the tier 2 gallente blaster boat.
As for the fittings i dunno what you are trying to fit on your harbringer and zealot, mine fit fine. If you are going to complain about t2 ships not fitting t2 stuff maybe you should ask why you are trying to fly a t2 ship with t2 stuff when you haven't trained advanced weapon upgrades to 4? The prophecy sucks tho, as does the Maller. I guess ccp will fix them eventually.
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Caldari prefer huge range, ignoring short range ships all together. Minmatar and amarr has the longest reaching short range guns with amarr winning in both tracking, range and damage (as minnie fight in falloff while amarr fight in optimal) while minmatar obviously using no cap.
Yeah autos track slower than pulses, honest.
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Draahk Chimera
Monopropellant Fools
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Caldari prefer huge range, ignoring short range ships all together. Minmatar and amarr has the longest reaching short range guns with amarr winning in both tracking, range and damage (as minnie fight in falloff while amarr fight in optimal) while minmatar obviously using no cap.
Yeah autos track slower than pulses, honest.
Barrage. Or do you use t1 ammo in your vagabond and orbit inside web range?
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.03.30 17:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Caldari prefer huge range, ignoring short range ships all together. Minmatar and amarr has the longest reaching short range guns with amarr winning in both tracking, range and damage (as minnie fight in falloff while amarr fight in optimal) while minmatar obviously using no cap.
Yeah autos track slower than pulses, honest.
Barrage. Or do you use t1 ammo in your vagabond and orbit inside web range?
meh, don't fly vagas. The vagabond is not the only minmatar ship you know.
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Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.30 22:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Buyerr
now compare that with the gank rokh, the caldari ganking gunboat (remember if you use blaster to but on the same tackling as you would on other close combat ship and mwd etc) XD
Actually I'm a big fan of the gankrokh 1013dps 154,078EHP pretty good for a ship being used well outside it's role especially if you only have a shield related logistics or CS available. Of course that's not packing the tackling gear but it's rarely an issue with most gangs fielding far more points than they ever need. Either way one should sooner complain about the Apocs damage output in this role but the fact is neither it nor the Rokh are bonused towards close range work.
The point is, getting back to it, that Amarr do not have a problem in the gank and tank department, nor with fitting, certainly not at the BS level and Harbinger is all sorts of awesome. I've little experience with their frigs and cruisers beyond occasionally blowing one up and peeking inside so I'll leave that to more experienced people.
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johnny chuckles
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Posted - 2008.03.31 03:42:00 -
[20]
An interesting thing I noticed about races, its quite obvious in a way too.
Amarr are allied with Caldari (meaning they are good chums)
Minmatar are allied with Gallente.
Amarr are great and pwning Caldari ships.
Caldari are strong against Minmatar (minnies have weakest resistance to ecm, missles are usually best against someone who normally fights in falloff etc. Kin missile bonus works well on shield tanking minnie t2 ships. Some other things too.)
Gallente are best at going toe to toe with amarr it seems.
Minmatar don't seem to be that great agaisnt any particular faction. I suppose thier t2 stuff can do well against amarr, but generally speaking minmatar are the jack of all trades race.
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