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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Scoundrelus on 28/03/2008 16:38:13
I know theres quite of a few of these posts out these days but I think we should have quite a few to get the message across that this is beginning to be a serious problem. Here is my PvP Timeline for the past few days.
Day 1:
Myself and my alliance get into a gang of about 10 or so to roam from low sec to 0.0. We end up killing a few cruisers in low sec and a Dominix in 0.0 and a whole lot of macro haulers. Everyone else was just nano'ed out.
Day 2:
Myself and my alliance get into a gang of about 13 or so to do the same roam. We got more kills this time in 0.0 but we could've gotten three times the amount of kills but guess what? Yep, nanoships! Even if we had a bubble, the fact that they go 3 - 5km/s makes it null, we wouldn't have killed any anyways. The only way I see to take these ships down is a remote sensor booster Huginn with a remote sensor booster Lachesis, and thats to grab ONE nanoship.
Day 3:
Today I'm flying around in my rapier. I'm completely cloaked and no one knows what I'm in. So I'm flying around and I see an Arbitrator on scans, unfortunately he sees me in local (but doesn't see what I'm in). He docks. I fly a few more jumps and sit there for 10 minutes watching a bunch of gatecampers feasting on nubships and macro haulers. My parrot who was perched on my head ends up taking a crap on it and I dock to clean my head off. Afterwards I continue on, I end up finding a Celestis and Omen in a belt ratting, and it literally took me 10 seconds to scan them out and get into warp.
Guess what? Yep they docked.
-Alliances preach that the most effective method of PvP is nanoships.
-Low Sec Carebear corps preach that you must dock whenever a pirate enters local immediately.
-And Hi-Sec Carebears make enough money in high sec to not even need to look at low sec.
EVE has turned into an absolute PvP disaster. We mock WoW and all the other games with softcore PvP and yet we are denied any real PvP with the exception of a good fight every occasion or so. I'm truly sick of it and frankly have no will to undock anymore and waste a good few hours roaming around for a couple of cruisers and some macro haulers.
On top of that, losing 50% of your kills to warp to 0 isn't that fun either. Nice to be able to move faster but still sucks.
If CCP plans to do something they should do it quick, because in my opinion at the moment, EVE just sucks.
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Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:42:00 -
[2]
Can i has your stuffs?
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Xonkra
ArcadiaCorp Marines
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Xonkra on 28/03/2008 16:43:41
totaly agree 
ps , if you're leaving , can i have your stuff?
remember that i did agree !
also, FIRST !
edit: damn beaten 
stupid character limit |
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:45:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Xonkra
Edited by: Xonkra on 28/03/2008 16:43:41
totaly agree
ps , if you're leaving , can i have your stuff?
remember that i did agree !
also, FIRST !
edit: damn beaten
Pwned
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Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:46:00 -
[5]
Moral of the story? Don't fly around in 0.0 with a parrot on your head.
Seriously though, some good points that should be addressed. Personally I think what is needed is a motivation to PvP, a reason for both sides to want to engage. PvP for PvP's sake just gets old (and costly), so as it becomes an annoyance people will try to avoid it more than they will participate.
"Space is filled with countless hours of boredom...punctuated by moments of abject terror."
- Capn. James T. Kirk, Starfleet Academy |
Khalen Orerunner
Coronus Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:52:00 -
[6]
The problem sounds like the make up of your gang. You need more tacklers and possibley other updates to your strat. Nanos have no defence besides speed.
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Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Khalen Orerunner
The problem sounds like the make up of your gang. You need more tacklers and possibley other updates to your strat. Nanos have no defence besides speed.
Yer i was thinking whats a gang of that size doing with no anti nano ships or modules.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Originally by: Khalen Orerunner
The problem sounds like the make up of your gang. You need more tacklers and possibley other updates to your strat. Nanos have no defence besides speed.
Yer i was thinking whats a gang of that size doing with no anti nano ships or modules.
Typically we do a lot of sentry tanking because we have to chase people to gates all the time and those types of ships can't really tank the sentries. I was kinda thinking of making a nano-sleipnir with two faction webs just for these nanoships.
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Merdaneth
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.03.28 16:57:00 -
[9]
To get PvP you need one of two things:
1. A way to force a fight on people.
For well-prepared and alert people this is nearly impossible. They dock, cloak, nano, log, whatever to avoid having a fight forced upon them. For a forced fight is rarely a fight where the victim has a decent chance of victory. This is probably just as well, for if you cannot escape PvP even if you are alert and well-prepared, and need to suffer fights constantly forced upon you, EVE will turn into nothing but a grief-fest.
2. You have to seduce your enemy to engage you.
This is a difficult skill to acquire, also it generally entails you taking risks. You have to engage a (perceived) stronger ship with your weaker ship. You have to attack a larger gang with a smaller gang. This will get you the fights you are looking for.
If you fly around in a risk-less ship (like a cloak Rapier) there will not be much incentive (or even options) for others to be seduced in engaging you. Hence, you should alter your tactics. Go out in a weaker ship without cloak, and you will see you get plenty more fights. Yes, you'll probably lose more to, but that's how it works.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Mannheim Wolf
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:02:00 -
[10]
People nano up the most when they know they'll have to operate under hit and run situations.
When you bring 10-15 people on a roaming gang, it is reasonable to assume you'll be going up against single targets. These single targets are going to want an advantage. Speed is one of those advantages
And there you have it. There may be a problem with nanos (of course there is) but there also needs to be a reason that people started to use them in the first place.
---
Always outnumbered.
Most likely outgunned.
Never outsmarted.
~Wolf |
Kirgan
Pyrognome
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:03:00 -
[11]
You fly in a gang looking for easy kills and wonder why people warp and dock when they see your gang coming? If itÆs just you they figure your recon for the gang.
Your right; people Mock Wow however when I played that game it was on a pvp server and 95% of my fights were 1v1 unlike eve where it's 8760680787709 vs. a shuttle. I have had 1v1 in Empire and one time in low sec, all were good fights.
I lost an expensive ship and a set of +3's once to a gate camp when I was new, I didnÆt post here about how the game was broken. I sold stuff, bought a new ship, refit it and went with a scout the next timeàHavenÆt lost a good ship to a low sec gate camp since.
Not sure if it's PVP thatÆs broken or the way people play. I have adapted many times for my style of play, sounds like you may need to adapt yours.
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Lurana Jade
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lurana Jade on 28/03/2008 17:13:44
The new Dev blog mentions some LowSec changes coming.
It also mentions a Nan0 stacking penalty, particularly for larger ships.
As for the rest of you righteous indignation, boo-friggin hoo about lowsec bears docking with their pve setups before you get a chance to kill them. LowSec is what people like you have made of it, deal with it and quit *****-ing.
Quote:
EVE has turned into an absolute PvP disaster// and yet we are denied any real PvP with the exception of a good fight every occasion or so
For you maybe. Want some pew pew? Get a gang and go shoot the pipe and get into some deep 0.0, bring an industrail and live out of a can for a couple days. go deep and raise hell for as long as you can.
No? Oh, that's right, those guys might kick your asses all up and down the pipe.
Join RvB or N00b Mercs if your JUST looking to fight, which I highly doubt.
Quote:
On top of that, losing 50% of your kills to warp to 0 isn't that fun either. Nice to be able to move faster but still sucks.
This sentence is instructive. Kills are what's important to you? Thought you said you wanted pvp??
Quote:
-And Hi-Sec Carebears make enough money in high sec to not even need to look at low sec.
Usual generic pirate whine wanting more clueless Empire n00bs for targets, basically. Want to fight Empire peeps? Go Empire and start deccing, oh that's right you buggered your status so bad podding uselessly, you can't set foot into it, so waaaa bring the targets to me.
Your a friggin Bear yourself, you just don't know it.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Scoundrelus on 28/03/2008 17:16:07
Originally by: Lurana Jade
Edited by: Lurana Jade on 28/03/2008 17:13:44
The new Dev blog mentions some LowSec changes coming.
It also mentions a Nan0 stacking penalty, particularly for larger ships.
As for the rest of you righteous indignation, boo-friggin hoo about lowsec bears docking with their pve setups before you get a chance to kill them. LowSec is what people like you have made of it, deal with it and quit *****-ing.
Quote:
EVE has turned into an absolute PvP disaster// and yet we are denied any real PvP with the exception of a good fight every occasion or so
For you maybe. Want some pew pew? Get a gang and go shoot the pipe and get into some deep 0.0, bring an industrail and live out of a can for a couple days. go deep and raise hell for as long as you can.
No? Oh, that's right, those guys might kick your asses all up and down the pipe.
Join RvB or N00b Mercs if your JUST looking to fight, which I highly doubt.
Quote:
On top of that, losing 50% of your kills to warp to 0 isn't that fun either. Nice to be able to move faster but still sucks.
This sentence is instructive. Kills are what's important to you? Thought you said you wanted pvp??
Quote:
-And Hi-Sec Carebears make enough money in high sec to not even need to look at low sec.
Usual generic pirate whine wanting more clueless Empire n00bs for targets, basically. Want to fight Empire peeps? Go Empire and start deccing, oh that's right you buggered your status so bad podding uselessly, you can't set foot into it, so waaaa bring the targets to me.
Your a friggin Bear yourself, you just don't know it.
Post with your main. Die to less gatecamps.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:25:00 -
[14]
Just to address the collective simultaneously now. I have no beef with the nano'ers themselves nor the dockers who don't want to fight. What I do have beef with is CCP forcing the issue on these people or at least enabling them to do it. The people who insta-dock at the first sign of someone jumping into local are using the heatedly disputed Local Chat to do it. Something that needs adjustment.
The nano'ers are using a tactic that should not be possible but is, and isn't considered an exploit (Nor should it) I can barely blame them for doing it to be honest but it shouldn't be possible. Furthermore it detracts from Minmatar's advantage since now every race has a vagabond.
The macro'ers... I won't even start.
Hi sec bears (such as our alt friend Lurana Jade) have no reason to enter low sec, nor do I blame them for not doing so. Why would you enter a more dangerous, less profitable form of Empire space?
Piracy in EVE is basically forcing PvP on someone who doesn't want it and killing them. At least thats how most people consider it. However CCP is catering more towards the victim rather than the pirate, when it should be equal all around. CCP has spoken regarding the problems with low sec and their plans to possible make low sec similar to 0.0 in that you can own parts of it to a limited extent, but right now its still in the "Thinking about it" stage which means we can probably expect something like this in 2009.
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Lurana Jade
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:27:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lurana Jade on 28/03/2008 17:30:45
Quote:
Post with your main. Die to less gatecamps.
Well, if that's the best response you can come up with, I guess what I said was all true.
I just want you guys to admit the truth: you don't want pvp, you want ganks as many and as fast as you can get em.
Which basically means bottom feeding scavengers. *shrugs*
If you werent a bear, you would stop whining and go Empire and dec people right and left. But, oh noooos, that takes too much effort, bring moar targets here plse, kktxbye.
Oh, and I don't die to camps unless I am bored and want some amusement, or make a mistake and hit a bubble the rare times I travel hostile. Most times it's JClones.
Know what else? Unless LowSec is RADICALLY changed, it's still easier/better to just jump clone to 0.0, no matter what they do to Empire.
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Kaileen Starsong
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:28:00 -
[16]
Directed @ the OP...
You seriosuly expects loners or duos to engage your gang of 10+ ? Why should they? Or even, why should they be able to be easily caught by such a gang, which doesn't even have what it takes to force fights upon people?
You wh... complain about nano. Yeah, guess why nanoing is popular? Simply because it allows you to disengage when blob arrives(and it arrives quite often).
Your post gives an impression of you longing for easily available risk-less kills. One can hope that CCP won't "do something" to move PvP in this direction, tbh.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lurana Jade
Quote:
Post with your main. Die to less gatecamps.
Well, if that's the best response you can come up with, I guess what I said was all true.
I just want you guys to admit the truth: you don't want pvp, you want ganks as many and as fast as you can get em.
Which basically means bottom feeding scavengers. *shrugs*
If you werent a bear, you would stop whining and go Empire and dec people right and left. But, oh noooos, that takes too much effort, bring moar targets here plse, kktxbye.
Oh, and I don't die to camps unless I am bored and want some amusement, or make a mistake and hit a bubble the rare times I travel hostile. Most times it's JClones.
Arguing with a flamer/troll is pointless.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Directed @ the OP...
You seriosuly expects loners or duos to engage your gang of 10+ ? Why should they? Or even, why should they be able to be easily caught by such a gang, which doesn't even have what it takes to force fights upon people?
You wh... complain about nano. Yeah, guess why nanoing is popular? Simply because it allows you to disengage when blob arrives(and it arrives quite often).
Your post gives an impression of you longing for easily available risk-less kills. One can hope that CCP won't "do something" to move PvP in this direction, tbh.
Gangs equal to us and larger wouldn't engage and I do solo quite often (see Day 3). All to the same result.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:30:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 28/03/2008 17:32:22
W00t first post on these forums:
Me = low sec player who usually gets wtfpwned by pirates.
Why do you think people nano their ship? Maybe because they arent intrested in the 13 vs 1 situations you seem to prefer.
What else do you think ratters do when they see a pirate? Put up a big neon sign with: "i am ratting in a t1 cruiser (who rats in celestis anyway), i got a pve setup, and i know there is a pirate here so please kill me"?
btw, get an arazu, it might actually have some uses, and some battleships that fit neutralizer. Then most nanoships arent going fast enough to get out of warp jam range before your gangmates with mwd can get to them. If needed launch a bunch of web drones. A HIC's warp jam range should probably also do it.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
My parrot who was perched on my head ends up taking a crap on it and I dock to clean my head off. Afterwards I continue on...
How is this the one part of the post that goes undiscussed? 
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Furb Killer
W00t first post on these forums:
Me = low sec player who usually gets wtfpwned by pirates.
Why do you think people nano their ship? Maybe because they arent intrested in the 13 vs 1 situations you seem to prefer.
What else do you think ratters do when they see a pirate? Put up a big neon sign with: "i am ratting in a t1 cruiser (who rats in celestis anyway), i got a pve setup, and i know there is a pirate here so please kill me"?
Originally by: Scoundrelus
I have no beef with the nano'ers themselves nor the dockers who don't want to fight. What I do have beef with is CCP forcing the issue on these people or at least enabling them to do it.
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Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Furb Killer
W00t first post on these forums:
Me = low sec player who usually gets wtfpwned by pirates.
Why do you think people nano their ship? Maybe because they arent intrested in the 13 vs 1 situations you seem to prefer.
What else do you think ratters do when they see a pirate? Put up a big neon sign with: "i am ratting in a t1 cruiser (who rats in celestis anyway), i got a pve setup, and i know there is a pirate here so please kill me"?
This.
Pretty good first post, keep up the good work
Originally by: CCP Oveur
...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Haradgrim
Originally by: Scoundrelus
My parrot who was perched on my head ends up taking a crap on it and I dock to clean my head off. Afterwards I continue on...
How is this the one part of the post that goes undiscussed?
Because people on the forum have no sense of humor.
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Kaileen Starsong
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Gangs equal to us and larger wouldn't engage and I do solo quite often (see Day 3). All to the same result.
Can't discuss former due to lack of information. You were talking more about other stuff in your OP though.
As for solo'ing.. well, someone above already told you about flying risk-less ship :) Not to mention that you miss loads of fights simply by flying a rapier(it's cloaked and it's ******* boring to try and fight with any chances for you(got to force rapier to engage in suboptimal conditions and such..)). Try flying something more... vulnerable. Hop in a deimos and every sane BC will chase you till you dock Or hop into the said BC and you'll get much more targets than in your rapier. 
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Faife
Blackrain Solutions
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:38:00 -
[25]
Scoundrelus, you fail at low sec piracy. Move 0.0 and quit whining.
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Dragons Talon
Draconian Research corp
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:47:00 -
[26]
No matter how long I play this game..the idea that anyone can call attacking a mining barge pvp is beyond me. Thats simple gankage not a fight. you whine because miners don't want to fight, its simple that they can't fight (in the barge, or miner ship)
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 28/03/2008 17:32:22
W00t first post on these forums:
Me = low sec player who usually gets wtfpwned by pirates.
Why do you think people nano their ship? Maybe because they arent intrested in the 13 vs 1 situations you seem to prefer.
What else do you think ratters do when they see a pirate? Put up a big neon sign with: "i am ratting in a t1 cruiser (who rats in celestis anyway), i got a pve setup, and i know there is a pirate here so please kill me"?
btw, get an arazu, it might actually have some uses, and some battleships that fit neutralizer. Then most nanoships arent going fast enough to get out of warp jam range before your gangmates with mwd can get to them. If needed launch a bunch of web drones. A HIC's warp jam range should probably also do it.
Also for your information I don't prefer 13 vs 1 situations. I prefer 1 vs 1 or even myself being outnumbered situations. Those are the most adrenaline pumping fights which make EVE worth the 15$ a month. However the 13 vs 1 gangs we fly in are only in alliance ops where we go to engage other large gangs in 0.0, however all we find are typically nanogangs which are pretty much the same as stab-gangs. No one in EVE can seriously believe that PvP as it is now is just fine. Let me run down the list of problems for you one more time:
1. Nano ships are the replacement for stabs. Stabs were nerfed for a reason. Nano ships were nerfed but not enough.
2. No incentive to enter low sec makes for a smaller population thus hungrier pilot thus 10 people on your retriever killmail when we finally find you.
3. Local chat gives people instant information on who is in the system. Should be telling you how many are in the system rather than who they are.
4. Warp to 0 (which I guess was a necessary evil due to the amount of BM in the game) has put a large dent in PvP as well. Shuttles and ships that can align and warp quickly are 100% invincible in low sec. That encompasses nano-ships as well. Go figure.
5. Blobs are an issue in which the only way to adapt is more blobs. Can't see a fix for this tbh. I for one hate blobs and prefer to solo but hey, what can you do?
6. Cloakers that aren't meant to cloak and logoffski. Nuff said.
I mean c'mon, these are just SOME of the problems facing low sec. How can anyone say that PvP is fine or that I'm doing something wrong. Granted I'm not the worlds greatest pirate, but I do know what I'm doing and I have been living in low sec for the past 3 years, I think that there is some validity to what I say.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Gangs equal to us and larger wouldn't engage and I do solo quite often (see Day 3). All to the same result.
Can't discuss former due to lack of information. You were talking more about other stuff in your OP though.
I don't really think my posts through when I type them. I'm not a forum guy.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:51:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dragons Talon
No matter how long I play this game..the idea that anyone can call attacking a mining barge pvp is beyond me. Thats simple gankage not a fight. you whine because miners don't want to fight, its simple that they can't fight (in the barge, or miner ship)
PvP = Player vs Player. Everything else is just semantics.
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.03.28 17:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Faife
Scoundrelus, you fail at low sec piracy. Move 0.0 and quit whining.
Yeah, lets fit up some nanoships together and blob on a gate for 2 hours then go home after some shuttle kills. Thats some bad ass **** right there.
You want to try your hand at low sec piracy? Come on down, but until then, just keep on blobbin those gates.
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