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Proposals involving doomsdays and cynojammers (Srs bzns thread)

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Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 18:59:00 - [1] Alright, let me preface this by saying that I am not involved in any conflict where this could be interpreted to be whining about a particular entity or a particular cyno jammer. I am a member of an alliance that defends cyno jammers with titans, and the last times I have taken out a jammer by myself titans where not involved. I dont have much of a personal stake in this beyond my interest in functioning gameplay, and if this turns into a ** throwing competition between bob/goon/whoever its just going to let locked, so please try to post in here in the context of general gameplay, not as an individual with a specific agenda. I am genuinly interested in what people have to say on the topic. Basically I think the majority of people who have had experience with cyno jammed systems and titans think the current system is not functioning in a way that it should be. The cyno jammer system as it stands allows a defender to field a supercapital fleet against a subcapital fleet under all circumstances, and given sufficient time to prepare it really does almost become impossible to take out such a hardened defense. Multiple titans on grid allow for conventional fleets to be erased at whim, with little to no risk to the titans themselves, especially given a sufficient number of titans that they are able to dd every 15-30 minutes. Additionally, the only real tactic to counteract this is to throw enough ships into the grider that you overcome the dd recharge time, and the state of the server makes this impractical. If you have enough numbers to actually overcome the titans, you will have gone beyond the limits of the server to actually field them in an effective manner. I have heard a number of proposals to counteract this balance issue, as well as a few of my own and will list them here with a bit of my own thoughts on them, and would like people to add thier own suggestions in a constructive manner (AGAIN PLEASE DONT TURN THIS INTO A THROWING CONTEST, AND DONT MAKE PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS OR TAKE OTHERS SUGGESTIONS MORE PERSONALLY THEN THEY INTENDED). 1. Disallow titans in cyno jammed systems: Probably unreasonable imo, and an overnerf. Alliances who own a titan should be able to use them in at least some capacity when defending thier core systems. 2. Incorporate a new mechanic that automatically offlines the jammer upon activation of a doomsday for a certain period of time. : Again, probably an overnerf. The point would be to allow the attacker to respond to (super)capital warfare with a capital fleet of thier own. However, would probably make dding a suicidal manuver by the titan pilot, and is again probably an overnerf. 3. Introduce some sort of a module with the mechanics of a warp bubble (or a new shiptype), that renders the attacking fleet invulnurable to a doomsday until it is killed. Would have roughly the range of a t2 large bubble, but with a lower online timer.: Cons- would probably be misused out of its intended role (like making an invincible gatecamp), but would force a conventional vs conventional fleetfight before caps are brought in (this is how eve should work in my view) 4. Remove the recharge timer on doomsdays when activated in a cynojammed system. : This is probably one of the best suggestions I have seen up until this point. Would at the very least get rid of the impossible 15 minute double dds, while still allowing defenders to use thier titans in defense of thier systems. It would be a *** to take out a cyno jammer from a strongly defending alliance, but no longer impossible. 5. Disallow the jump briding of titans and perhaps all capitals. : This should already be in game I think, if you want your caps in system, you should have to do it with a cyno like everyone else, and at least open a tiny window of vulnurability in exchange. Could work well in conjuction with number 4. Again, please keep this civil. -Gj Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 18:59:00 - [2] Alright, let me preface this by saying that I am not involved in any conflict where this could be interpreted to be whining about a particular entity or a particular cyno jammer. I am a member of an alliance that defends cyno jammers with titans, and the last times I have taken out a jammer by myself titans where not involved. I dont have much of a personal stake in this beyond my interest in functioning gameplay, and if this turns into a ** throwing competition between bob/goon/whoever its just going to let locked, so please try to post in here in the context of general gameplay, not as an individual with a specific agenda. I am genuinly interested in what people have to say on the topic. Basically I think the majority of people who have had experience with cyno jammed systems and titans think the current system is not functioning in a way that it should be. The cyno jammer system as it stands allows a defender to field a supercapital fleet against a subcapital fleet under all circumstances, and given sufficient time to prepare it really does almost become impossible to take out such a hardened defense. Multiple titans on grid allow for conventional fleets to be erased at whim, with little to no risk to the titans themselves, especially given a sufficient number of titans that they are able to dd every 15-30 minutes. Additionally, the only real tactic to counteract this is to throw enough ships into the grider that you overcome the dd recharge time, and the state of the server makes this impractical. If you have enough numbers to actually overcome the titans, you will have gone beyond the limits of the server to actually field them in an effective manner. I have heard a number of proposals to counteract this balance issue, as well as a few of my own and will list them here with a bit of my own thoughts on them, and would like people to add thier own suggestions in a constructive manner (AGAIN PLEASE DONT TURN THIS INTO A THROWING CONTEST, AND DONT MAKE PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS OR TAKE OTHERS SUGGESTIONS MORE PERSONALLY THEN THEY INTENDED). 1. Disallow titans in cyno jammed systems: Probably unreasonable imo, and an overnerf. Alliances who own a titan should be able to use them in at least some capacity when defending thier core systems. 2. Incorporate a new mechanic that automatically offlines the jammer upon activation of a doomsday for a certain period of time. : Again, probably an overnerf. The point would be to allow the attacker to respond to (super)capital warfare with a capital fleet of thier own. However, would probably make dding a suicidal manuver by the titan pilot, and is again probably an overnerf. 3. Introduce some sort of a module with the mechanics of a warp bubble (or a new shiptype), that renders the attacking fleet invulnurable to a doomsday until it is killed. Would have roughly the range of a t2 large bubble, but with a lower online timer.: Cons- would probably be misused out of its intended role (like making an invincible gatecamp), but would force a conventional vs conventional fleetfight before caps are brought in (this is how eve should work in my view) 4. Remove the recharge timer on doomsdays when activated in a cynojammed system. : This is probably one of the best suggestions I have seen up until this point. Would at the very least get rid of the impossible 15 minute double dds, while still allowing defenders to use thier titans in defense of thier systems. It would be a *** to take out a cyno jammer from a strongly defending alliance, but no longer impossible. 5. Disallow the jump briding of titans and perhaps all capitals. : This should already be in game I think, if you want your caps in system, you should have to do it with a cyno like everyone else, and at least open a tiny window of vulnurability in exchange. Could work well in conjuction with number 4. Again, please keep this civil. -Gj Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
VinkNut Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:05:00 - [3] We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system...
VinkNut Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:05:00 - [4] We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system...
King Hopy Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:06:00 - [5] Remove supercapitals, capitals and jumpbridges from game. Solved.
King Hopy Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:06:00 - [6] Remove supercapitals, capitals and jumpbridges from game. Solved.
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:14:00 - [7] Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:14:00 - [8] Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Possibly you should consider posting in the appropriate forum.. "Game Development Forum" _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:17:00 - [10] Edited by: thoth foc on 28/03/2008 19:17:42 Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Possibly you should consider posting in the appropriate forum.. "Game Development Forum/Features and Ideas Discussion" _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
Daylen Drazzi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Daylen Drazzi on 28/03/2008 19:23:22 Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Christ you are a ****. A single Titan is not a capital or supercapital fleet**. Start training Reading Comprehension 1 before you type. "Ya see us Goons neva lose, If we'r dead, we'r dead so nobody cares, If'n we win we'v won, so's only we cares If'n we run away we always come back later so Goons neva lose ya see?"
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:21:00 - [12] Originally by: thoth foc "Game Development Forum/Features and Ideas Discussion" Eh, seeing as cyno jammers are a mechanic which affects absolutly no one except alliances, it seems like it would recieve a more appropriate audience in here. If I wanted to post about how ubar my new torps where I would do it elsewhere. I suppose its up to a mod to make the distinction however. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:21:00 - [13] Originally by: thoth foc Edited by: thoth foc on 28/03/2008 19:17:42 Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Possibly you should consider posting in the appropriate forum.. "Scrapheap Challenge" Fixed that for you.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:24:00 - [14] i believe the OP is saying cyno jammers are impossible to take down. i think the point BOB pilot is making is, they just taken one down. I think the OP says he is not involved in the conflict in which cynojammers play a significant part. I think the BOB pilot might well be. I know goons want you to believe cynojammers are impossible to break. which is probably why they are not posting too much about qy6- right now. If it aint broken dont fix it coz the goons not got a clue what they are doing. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Omega Man i believe the OP is saying cyno jammers are impossible to take down. i think the point BOB pilot is making is, they just taken one down. I think the OP says he is not involved in the conflict in which cynojammers play a significant part. I think the BOB pilot might well be. I know goons want you to believe cynojammers are impossible to break. which is probably why they are not posting too much about qy6- right now. If it aint broken dont fix it coz the goons not got a clue what they are doing. For the love of christ, this is not about goons or bob (I really could not give less of a ** about thier war). The point was that it is possible to setup a defense that is impossible to take down, not that all defenses are impossible to take down. How are you guys so ***** dumb. I guess ill try this again on shc or something. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Drakine MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:28:00 - [16] Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... The Goonfleet titan pilot doesnt have Doomsday Operation trained atm
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:29:00 - [17] Ok, wow. New thread topic, this thread is now about eating paste. Everyone who has already posted in here please share thier best paste recipies and mabey some quick stories about how you bumble through life with double didget IQs. Thanks a lot -Gj Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:30:00 - [18] There's more to warfare then bringing enough people to kill the target. There's also teh art of making sure your enemy doesn't bring enough to defend it. Somehow, some people forget this, at convenient times.
Relyen Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Gjs312 Eh, seeing as cyno jammers are a mechanic which affects absolutly no one except alliances, it seems like it would recieve a more appropriate audience in here. I'm not calling your discussion good or bad, but posting in this forum and expecting intelligent discussion is pretty much impossible :P
maralt The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Gjs312 How am i so ******* dumb. I guess ill try this again on shc or something. Well posting on caod about such a sensitive subject and expecting ppl not to flame was kinda dumb. And yes you should have posted it on shc if you wished for a reasonable debate although there are already some going on.
CaptainMiller Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:33:00 - [21] Have a cyno jammer incap when a DDD is fired on the POS grid. Problem solved.
Drakine MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Drakine on 28/03/2008 19:33:57 Give the Cyno jammer the same HP as a DD.
Frygok M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:34:00 - [23] Gjs, you can remove the title of your thread and ask for it to be locked, and that should end this thread. My hat off to you for actually trying, but this really is the wrong forum to post anything of relevance to anything really. It will eventually just end up in another BoB vs. Goonswarm forumbattle decided between alts.
Gjs312 The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:35:00 - [24] alright, I apologize to everyone who got sucked into this mess. It wasnt actually intended to be a flamebait but a real post, but I guess i dont come here enough to realize what a cesspool this place has become, deleting now Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Cupdeez Out of Order	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:40:00 - [25] WOW that is all to much... Why not do something easy.. I titan can not use a DD on the same gride as a POS Enemy or Friendly.. Problem solved still has all the power anywhere in system.
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: thoth foc Edited by: thoth foc on 28/03/2008 19:17:42 Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... Wow, first post and you already failed at reading comprehension . Possibly you should consider posting in the appropriate forum.. "Scrapheap Challenge" Fixed that for you. Actually since calmdown appears to be collecting userdata, I wouldnt go there.. _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) DICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
Bayer22 F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:43:00 - [27] interesting read. too bad it got derailed so quickly, too many people don't know how to read apparently. as to your new topic. i like spaghetti with meatballs
fugazii Novus Industries	Posted - 2008.03.28 19:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Drakine Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... The Goonfleet titan pilot doesnt have Doomsday Operation trained atm Its not fair 5yr old players have more skills than 6m/o chara's do tbh.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Gjs312 Edited by: Gjs312 on 28/03/2008 19:35:41 oh man my mouth is so sticky and i have paste everyhwere wtf what should i do? Told you not to tell anyone about our seekret lovenights =/
Leanna Australis University of Caille	Posted - 2008.03.28 20:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Drakine Originally by: VinkNut We had no problem killing the QY6 Jammer, and goons had a titan in system... The Goonfleet titan pilot doesnt have Doomsday Operation trained atm oh look a ship that died to the goonfleet titan pilot from a doomsday.

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