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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:33:00 -
[1]
[pedantry module activated]
so, whats with this 'maximum velocity' stuff then?
surely the game should be based around maximum acceleration/decceleration for realistic physics?
or did concord fill up space with lots of hot air and arse-gasses?
[pedantry module deactivated]
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:34:00 -
[2]
Real life physics has nothing to do with Eve 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:36:00 -
[3]
Who gives a **** about RL physics anyway?
EVE would be unplayable if everything was realistic.
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Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:38:00 -
[4]
3 Over (x-3 * c) = Lag * User base in system + drones
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:43:00 -
[5]
thank you for assisting me in my experiment:
i can now conclude that posts which contain irritating pedantry such as this one are more popular than those which contain constructive comment.
i shall thus persue my career in pedantry to further increase my popularity
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:44:00 -
[6]
someone please delete my thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
haggis
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Posted - 2004.04.16 14:56:00 -
[7]
Never seen any reason not to have real-life physics myself, it would just mean acceleration was super-important, which I'm fine with  .
In fact, it would greatly improve combat, not only would you be duelling over who gets blown up first, but, you would also be fighting to stop yourself from being too much slower than your competitor (so afterburner and mwd management would be essential). Speed would actually be important, a battleship would be completely and utterly useless if it could not keep up with a frigate (I'm thinking of gun tracking here, the battleship would have to go in the same direction as the frigate and at a similiar or faster speed to keep it's accuracy).
All in all, it takes away from the immersion, and would be much more fun with .
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:06:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 16/04/2004 15:07:47
 Quote:
Never seen any reason not to have real-life physics myself, it would just mean acceleration was super-important, which I'm fine with
Six IRL months to travel from one station to another. 10,000 IRL years to travel from one system to another. Missiles armed with nuclear warheads that will instantly annihilate any ship - come to that, any station - in a single blow. No clones - the first time you lose in combat, anywhere, to anybody, GAME OVER. And you're not allowed to start again - once you're dead, you're dead and gone.
There are others, but that's enough reasons for me.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Jay Gatsby
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:14:00 -
[9]
Gah! Combat dictated by Newtonian physics - guess you didn't play Frontier; there was a game in which it was impossible to destroy a small, fast ship. And people complain about shooting frigates in Eve!
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Zen Jakkaru
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:17:00 -
[10]
Isaac Newbton was wrong.Spaceships slow down, 6000 AU/s travel is possible and you can fly through solid planets without as much as a scratch.. because TomB said so!
Nerf physics imho.
Har-de-fraggin'-har-har!
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:22:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Isaac Newbton was wrong.Spaceships slow down, 6000 AU/s travel is possible and you can fly through solid planets without as much as a scratch.. because TomB said so!
Nerf physics imho.
Did anyone ever play Terminus?
Crap game but it had acceleration based real physics with a speed limit that caused damage to be applied based on hull strength and calculated forces in the hull which depended on velocity, turning circle etc.
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Haratu
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:47:00 -
[12]
Actually, the vacuum we call space is not a true vacuum and there is dust particles and phoons wizzing about... in solar systems there is even a thing called a 'solar wind'.
With this in mind note that there is some drag in space... however this is so small that it only becomes noticeable at speeds close to the speed of light.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:52:00 -
[13]
yes. newton may been around 200 years earlier, but einsteins **** was definitely bigger
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.16 15:53:00 -
[14]
Uh, Isaac Newton's physics have a maximum velocity just like EVE does. And it applies just as much in real life. The maximum velocity of a spacecraft is limited to exactly twice the speed of the thrust. Since EVE ships appear to use high-efficiency no-fuel-required fusion drives like the ships in Homeworld, they would probably have very low maximum speeds as they do in the game.
Plus, there are science articles about how warp speed works, read them. And there is a reason why you can go through planets in warp 
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Ichabod Dirange
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:02:00 -
[15]
A theory is only true untill another one comes along that is more true, a strange currency indeed.
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:03:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Uh, Isaac Newton's physics have a maximum velocity just like EVE does. And it applies just as much in real life. The maximum velocity of a spacecraft is limited to exactly twice the speed of the thrust. ...... quote]
no, no and thrice NO.... at least not unless the laws of thermodynamics have changed since i did my first degree
*shuffles to cupboard to dig out old degree notes...*
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yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Tease
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tease on 16/04/2004 16:11:54
Quote:
no, no and thrice NO.... at least not unless the laws of thermodynamics have changed since i did my first degree
*shuffles to cupboard to dig out old degree notes...*
Guess what... In Eve, they did change.
Eve doesn't take place today, it doesn't even take place 3 weeks from now. What I can't understand is why so many of you hardline "Its not realistic!!!!" people can't accept the fact that this is a game, set in the far future and "reality" has no bearing on anything.
On top of that, and I know this is hard for some people to accept(especially those with Degrees), we *don't* know everything about physics, we learn something new about physics all the time.. EX: a few days ago: http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2004/04/11/story001.html
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:12:00 -
[18]
no need to get stroppy
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:17:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Uh, Isaac Newton's physics have a maximum velocity just like EVE does. And it applies just as much in real life. The maximum velocity of a spacecraft is limited to exactly twice the speed of the thrust.
I don't think this is correct.
In space as long as you apply a force (thrust in this case) you get constant acceleration.
NewtonÆs Second Law
The Law of Acceleration
The acceleration of a body is proportional to and takes place in the direction in which the force acts and is inversely proportional to the bodyÆs mass.
Acceleration = Force/Mass
Nothing in that to suggest any limitation.
Newton's Third Law
The Law of Reaction
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So, as long as there is a thrust being applied (action) there is acceleration of the object (reaction).
If we add time into the equation we get impulse. The application of force over a period of time shown simply by the equation:
Impulse = Force * Time
All of that said there are indeed limits. On earth with friction (air resistance for instance) you reach a point where the acceleration force is cancelled by the resistance...as seen in skydivers reaching terminal velocity.
In space if you get going really fast relativistic issues come into play in a noticeable way (they are always there...just far too small to be noticed till significant speed is reached). You have to fall back on Einstein's equations then to get a correct answer for acceleration (NOTE: Einstein's and Newton's equations mostly agree at 'normal' speeds. Where they diverge in our daily experience is at degrees of precision few if anyone ever need worry about much less notice. Hence Newton's equations work very well and are much easier to manage than Einstein's as only rare cases require the greater precision. Again it is only at significant fractions fo the Speed of Light that the 'small' differences grow to become quite noticeable.)
Of course, the Speed of Light is the ultimate speed limit.
As to EVE being not 'true' to physics be glad it isn't. In addition to other good points here faster than light travel, no matter how you do it, implies time travel. You would get wierdness like a Tachyon Cannon (tachyons are hypothetical FTL objects) striking their target before they were fired  . There are many other such implications (like selling minerals before you mined them) best left aside for teh sake and fun of the game.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:25:00 -
[20]
Well, if they were to model speed without maximum limits, they'd then have to find a way to handle time dialation effects, and laser velocities, among other things.
It would also change combat in rather serious ways, as even MWDless Amar Warships could easily reach significant fractions of the speed of light. With those sort of velocities, battles stop taking hours, and start taking years of manuver. Truely realistic space combat is a dull thing indeed.
Harry Voyager
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2004.04.16 16:45:00 -
[21]
Eve does not have a real physics engine..
hence real life physics do not apply.
They could have made it with a physics engine i suppose but the bottom line is thet EVE is an RPG and not a space sim.
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Luc Guerrier
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Posted - 2004.04.16 17:04:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Who gives a **** about RL physics anyway?
My ass after 6 hours of straight eve-gaming.
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Heritor
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Posted - 2004.04.16 17:51:00 -
[23]
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........loves physics 
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Galdain
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Posted - 2004.04.16 17:53:00 -
[24]
Acceleration based physics might seem more realistic, however you cannot accelerate infinitly unless you also have an infinite amout of energy with which to increase your rate of acceleration. Hence, you hit an effective speed limit and stop accelerating.
So really, it's about an energy limit. In eve, we hit the energy limit at fairly slow speeds. Mind you, there probably shouldn't even be a speed indicator, since there is no absolute frame of reference. Since nothing is truly at rest, when I look at my badger's speed of a terrifying 90 m/s, I have to ask "90 m/s, reletive to what?"
hehe. Sorry folks, just couldn't resist :)
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:12:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Acceleration based physics might seem more realistic, however you cannot accelerate infinitly unless you also have an infinite amout of energy with which to increase your rate of acceleration. Hence, you hit an effective speed limit and stop accelerating.
Yes and no.
There is no "speed limit" at all except for the speed of light. Nevertheless you can accelerate forever. Always approaching but never quite reaching the speed of light (it is here that relativity is in full swing and to an outside observer you will be accelerating at an ever decreasing rate...from your perspective all is normal...well actually the universe outside your window will look pretty strange but unless you somehow know better that would be 'normal' to you).
Of course, forever is a long time. As you mentioned nothing carries an infinite amount of energy to do this. The point however is that as long as you are applying a thrust to your ship you will accelerate. If you run out of gas then no more thrust and no more acceleration.
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:12:00 -
[26]
Well, actually, a correction. The fact that a spaceship is limited to twice the velocity of its thrust was not discovered by Newton, but by a guy much later. But it is a very well known law--one of the reasons why a Fusion Ramjet would take 42 years to get to alpha centauri--it has a max speed of 12.5% the speed of light.
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Drakma
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:34:00 -
[27]
Quote:
...snip...
Mind you, there probably shouldn't even be a speed indicator, since there is no absolute frame of reference. Since nothing is truly at rest, when I look at my badger's speed of a terrifying 90 m/s, I have to ask "90 m/s, reletive to what?"
Relative to it's starting point maybe?
Also, I'm of the mind the the top "Speed Limit" is the Speed of Time, not light...
Now... let THAT bake your noodle.
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Galdain
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Posted - 2004.04.16 18:39:00 -
[28]
Time may only be a construct created by humans to describe something that isn't what we really think it is.
Also, the speed of light may.....erk.....
gak.....wook...fizz...
*smell of burnt noodle*
mmmm.....noodles....
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:01:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Also, I'm of the mind the the top "Speed Limit" is the Speed of Time, not light...
Now... let THAT bake your noodle.
Well...yes. They are intertwined. If you reach the speed of light then time stops. Pretty hard limit to imagine breaching.
Imagine you have you Super-Duper Light Speed ship. Hit a button and you accelerate to light speed instantly. On the first test you just want to see what will happen so you plan to hit the button to go to light speed and then hit the button to shut it off as fast as you can.
You hit the button and reach light speed...you never ever get to turn it off. The universe itself will come to an end before you turn it off. Time has stopped for you, the universe has compressed to a line with no width (2 dimensional) and you have infinite mass (hence infinite energy too) and are everywhere in the universe at once.
As you can see going that fast is problematic.
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Meirantean
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Posted - 2004.04.16 19:07:00 -
[30]
>Well, actually, a correction. The fact that a spaceship is limited to >twice the velocity of its thrust was not discovered by Newton, but by a >guy much later. But it is a very well known law--one of the reasons why >a Fusion Ramjet would take 42 years to get to alpha centauri--it has a >max speed of 12.5% the speed of light.
Not true...
Besides what the hell is a fusion ramjet? Even if you had some fusion based engine, in the end the concept of matter 'ejection' based thrust would probably be the same. Even these current ION engines are basically the same principle. Unless your talking about somekind of impulse engine, where you throw bombs out of the back window :)
There is nothing stopping your maximum velocity, except your acceleration... it may be if you want to get to Alpha Centauri, your maximum velocity is set by the power of your engine, in that half way there you want to start slowing down, and so your maximum velocity would be the speed you could reach after accelerating as hard as your engine would let you till you got half way to Alpha Centauri. But in principle, as previous posters said, you can keep accelarating forever, as long as you have enough energy.
It was an interesting point that previous guy mentioned that you do keep accelerating, but space and time become so warped, from the point of view of an external observer you never reach c.
Meirantean
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