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Jas Dor
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 21:56:00 -
[1]
There's been a lot of whining about nano's. While I think the Devs probably understand the issue I'd like to give an explanation of what this alt of a 0.0 player has seen.
The issue with nano's is one of space control. An alliance needs to ability to secure its space. If space is not secure you either 1) have some PvP or 2) start to loose members. Folks will not stand for being shut down for prolonged periods of time. I believe the general game design theory is to encourage PvP. Now there are two ways that loose members can happen.
The first is heavy enemy presence. Bring folks in and shut the system down. This would normally be done with heavy BC/BS and the like.
Option two is commerce raiding. Bring in light ships and hit and run. In theory this is not a bad thing.
The problem comes in that at least every race has one if not more cruisers + all HACS + Recons + HICTORS (charitably) + Ceptors + the Hurricane (charitably) + the Typhoon.
On the other hand these ships can only be countered by the Huggin, Rapier and Hyena (the last not every well). Add to this that most if not all will orbit at 40km or more (Ceptor with Warp Disruptor). Actually we're 50km seems to be about average for a good nano gang to engage. Webbing at 40km requires some very expensive faction webs. Effectively then the Hyena is out of the running. Faction rarely get fitted to a frigate.
So 4/4 races can mount effective nano gangs. 1/4 have a counter. The race that has the counter is not and the top half popularity wise. All races have at least four ship classes that can be effectively nanoed. Only one class of one race can effectively counter. T1 ships can be nanoed, only T2 ships can counter nanos.
So the problem can be sumed up as: nano's are relatively common the counter to nanos is relatively rare, so much so that counter ships can be swarmed by nanos. There are two solutions to this: either cut the number of ships that can be effectively nanoed or introduce a more common counter.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Zara Torbe
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Posted - 2008.04.02 22:23:00 -
[2]
Boils down to -
DO NOT TOUCH the Vaga
Nerf 'insane' nano abilities of other hacs
?
Frig/cruiser and inty/recons are fine going as fast as they do
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Zeph Solaris
Heretic Army
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2008.04.02 23:15:00 -
[3]
You're thinking the only way to stop a nano is to web/kill it. There are plenty of other ways to stop nanos or make them inneffective. You can jam, snipe, damp, or neut them. If they're orbiting you too fast/far away, get a buddy a bit away from you that can hit them at their longer range. Throw Warriors after them and hope they'll MWD out and orbit farther away. You might be able to hit them at those longer ranges. If all else fails, hop in a nano and take the fight to them.
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Vanessa Vale
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.02 23:21:00 -
[4]
/facepalm
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Gamesguy
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Posted - 2008.04.02 23:59:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jas Dor
There's been a lot of whining about nano's. While I think the Devs probably understand the issue I'd like to give an explanation of what this alt of a 0.0 player has seen.
The issue with nano's is one of space control. An alliance needs to ability to secure its space. If space is not secure you either 1) have some PvP or 2) start to loose members. Folks will not stand for being shut down for prolonged periods of time. I believe the general game design theory is to encourage PvP. Now there are two ways that loose members can happen.
The first is heavy enemy presence. Bring folks in and shut the system down. This would normally be done with heavy BC/BS and the like.
Option two is commerce raiding. Bring in light ships and hit and run. In theory this is not a bad thing.
The problem comes in that at least every race has one if not more cruisers + all HACS + Recons + HICTORS (charitably) + Ceptors + the Hurricane (charitably) + the Typhoon.
On the other hand these ships can only be countered by the Huggin, Rapier and Hyena (the last not every well). Add to this that most if not all will orbit at 40km or more (Ceptor with Warp Disruptor). Actually we're 50km seems to be about average for a good nano gang to engage. Webbing at 40km requires some very expensive faction webs. Effectively then the Hyena is out of the running. Faction rarely get fitted to a frigate.
So 4/4 races can mount effective nano gangs. 1/4 have a counter. The race that has the counter is not and the top half popularity wise. All races have at least four ship classes that can be effectively nanoed. Only one class of one race can effectively counter. T1 ships can be nanoed, only T2 ships can counter nanos.
So the problem can be sumed up as: nano's are relatively common the counter to nanos is relatively rare, so much so that counter ships can be swarmed by nanos. There are two solutions to this: either cut the number of ships that can be effectively nanoed or introduce a more common counter.
Its called the interceptor. Most nanoships will die to a solo blaster-ranis, resulting in some hilarious killmails.
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Typhado3
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Posted - 2008.04.03 06:05:00 -
[6]
... nano's are a problem and a pain in the ass....
however pls pls pls don't give all the races webber ships. the huginn/rapier is one of the best ships minmatar have.
I've been raided countless times by nano gangs and that's part of the reason I'm in empire at the moment. But all this talk of nano nerf's speed nerfs and what not has me clutching my minmatar ships in fear of being nerfed into oblivion. Please don't give webs to more ships than you already have (mauraders), making our best support ship average would be a major blow to minmatar players. Also making one of minmatars greatest strength's (our speed) useless on the battlefield will be a major pain.
sry for this post being not very useful  I usually only post if I have something useful to say. but just cringing in fear of major minmatar nerf in the making tends to make me jumpy
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Eleana Tomelac
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.03 12:00:00 -
[7]
The mwd being affected by mass is the issue, because you have just so many slots on HACs that the mass goes down to ridiculous and the speed and manoeuvrability becomes something a cruiser shouldn't do.
The vaga needs to be tweaked to keep it a nanoship if the MWD is changed, that's all.
And AB needs to be tweaked to make it an interesting PvP module, which it is not currently as being totally underpowered.
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Draahk Chimera
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Posted - 2008.04.03 12:11:00 -
[8]
Ive suggested it before. I'll do it again. I think it would be cool to make missiles an anti-nano weapon towards large targets. Give missiles a huge increase in speed and missile velocity (we are looking at maybe 10km/s speed, 6-7km/s explosion v.), nerf flight time to keep the range and finally (maybe) nerf explosion radius even more. Result: cruise and heavy missiles hit nano-hacs for 100-150 damage, hit ceptors for 10-20 damage. The nano-hacs can suddenly be hurt, caldari becomes a viable pvp race and ceptors are largely unnafected, at least if they drop an OD II for a SAR II.
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.03 13:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: maralt on 03/04/2008 13:46:40
Nano gangs are a special ops style of flying and as such need a special ops style of counter.
Your own nano ships can be used to counter them but also a combination of rapiers, logistic ships, ecm/damp and dmg dealers can be very effective and kill a few while sending the rest running for cover. After a few spankings without getting any kills they will soon head for more easy prey than your systems but if you keep giving them kills they will stay.
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Ciena Centrifuge
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Posted - 2008.04.03 17:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 03/04/2008 13:46:40
Nano gangs are a special ops style of flying and as such need a special ops style of counter.
Your own nano ships can be used to counter them but also a combination of rapiers, logistic ships, ecm/damp and dmg dealers can be very effective and kill a few while sending the rest running for cover. After a few spankings without getting any kills they will soon head for more easy prey than your systems but if you keep giving them kills they will stay.
gangs based around speed is deffinately a special ops style and their are plenty of ways to counter it. As Maralt says, one way most of you guys could counter is to stop giving them easy kills. People want speed nerfed and when they do that things get to slow and then people complain because they have to use recons just to get into someones hic invested region. Simple solution is get your leaders to figure out a counter and form up gangs a lot quicker and watch your intel channels. |
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