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Gamesguy
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Posted - 2008.04.03 23:04:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/04/2008 19:17:17
Originally by: Cpt Branko
From personal experience, I can tell you that tracking 5.5km/s-6.5km/s Vagabonds is easy in a BC,
I do not get this part (not arguing here, looking for an explanation).
1) People say the Vaga needs to slow down to do damage. Why does the Vaga have issues with its speed hitting something but you suggest others can hit you fine? The ship shooting at you has the same transversal you do when firing back at him.
2) I am surprised tracking is so insensitive to speed. One would assume the Devs set tracking on guns to start losing accuracy at more "normal" and usual speeds. Certainly something less than 1000 m/s transversal which is usually the case. So a ship maintaining a 5000+ m/s transversal gets only a minor benefit in defense? If it is so bad then why a speed tank since it sounds like it is no tank at all and just a "run away" mechanism. It also suggest tracking is a complete non-issue at normal speeds since it takes some crazy speed to even start having a noticeable effect.
3) I do not fly a Vaga and have no real clue as to "acceptable" fittings but a Tracking Disruptor sounds like a great idea to me. With its speed the Vaga can effectively be immune to missiles and drones and hit a turret ship with a TD and I would think it would nerf their ability to hit at those transversal speeds to near nothing making the Vaga a lot safer.
You can't be serious, have you ever heard of signature radius?
That +500% sig radius isn't just for looks you know. A vaga is pretty much equally easy to hit whether its orbiting at 400m/s with no mwd or orbitting at 6km/s with mwd on, due to sig radius vs sig resolution.
Thats the main reason you need cruiser sized guns to hit nanos, bs sized guns do NOT have that much worse tracking...but they have 3 times the sig resolution.
The thing is, when that vaga is orbitting at 400m/s, his target has a transversal of 400m/s, but when he hits the mwd, he can still be hit quite easilly due to this massive sig radius, but he cant hit his target because his target's sig radius didn't change at all, while the transversal just shot up 10 fold.
Basic game mechanics here.
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.03 23:39:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Point is the Vaga is the only ship sub battleship that anyone dumps the kind of money you are talking about into. Therein lies the roots of its imbalance issues. I'm not sure people even put that much cash into a Command Ship (although I have seen some pimp, 600 mil or so CS setups).
Does that indicate a problem with nanos, or a problem with battleships being able to wtfpwn everything else?
At a guess I'd say it is because battleships are more survivable (more resilient). You have a better chance of protecting your investment generally speaking.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.04 00:51:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
... because battleships are more survivable (more resilient). You have a better chance of protecting your investment generally speaking.
Typically battleships setup this way are either remote repping gangs that are hugging a gate to safety or a nano setup with alts in nearby systems and possibly a falcon alt for cover.
Generally the battleships are flown a bit more carefully than the nanos which have little fear of anything short of a rapier/huginn and possibly a handful of suicidal ceptors.
The other setups that expensive are often seen in high sec or wherever running lvl4 missions. In nearly all cases the setups are "investments" as the pilot sees a greatly reduced chance of dying.
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:12:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Nanos unite? hahaaa... nothing like a room full of weeny gamers.
Face it... nanos will be nerfed. Deal with it.
I see you listen to the dev blogs. QFT. They aren't nerfing speed at all, just ships that aren't supposed to go fast.
The point of the post is that "nano" seems to have this giant bullzeye on it atm, and that's not fair, or right at all.
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Point is the Vaga is the only ship sub battleship that anyone dumps the kind of money you are talking about into. Therein lies the roots of its imbalance issues. I'm not sure people even put that much cash into a Command Ship (although I have seen some pimp, 600 mil or so CS setups).
What if I told you I know someone with more money on their Crow than I have ever had?
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Ras Blumin
Mutated Miners Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:19:00 -
[126]
Nanoships are nice because their supposed counters (Gallente + Minmatar recons, interdictors, and to a lesser extent, neuts and EW) are even better against nonnanoships, who can't run away as easily when a counter shows up on overview. Under the right circumstances and with the right setups, you really only need two or three ships to catch a whole gang of nonnanoships nowadays.
I'd like to see a nerf across the board.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:26:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Point is the Vaga is the only ship sub battleship that anyone dumps the kind of money you are talking about into. Therein lies the roots of its imbalance issues. I'm not sure people even put that much cash into a Command Ship (although I have seen some pimp, 600 mil or so CS setups).
What if I told you I know someone with more money on their Crow than I have ever had?
Not an issue at all. There's always one out there at least. It wouldn't surprise me to find someone faction fitted an Ibis for the lulz.
Point is if it is a common practice.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.04 01:54:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Point is the Vaga is the only ship sub battleship that anyone dumps the kind of money you are talking about into. Therein lies the roots of its imbalance issues. I'm not sure people even put that much cash into a Command Ship (although I have seen some pimp, 600 mil or so CS setups).
What if I told you I know someone with more money on their Crow than I have ever had?
Not an issue at all. There's always one out there at least. It wouldn't surprise me to find someone faction fitted an Ibis for the lulz.
Point is if it is a common practice.
And yet you have no way of knowing if it is common practice to pimp Vagas other than anecdotal evidence.
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Scoundrelus
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Posted - 2008.04.04 03:41:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Nerf nano ships. They're the new stabs.
Did you read the post?
Just the title.
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Megan Maynard
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Posted - 2008.04.04 03:44:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Nerf nano ships. They're the new stabs.
Did you read the post?
Just the title.
Thanks, ignorance is bliss isn't it?
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
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Scoundrelus
Dark Tornado
Synchr0nicity
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Posted - 2008.04.04 03:53:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Nerf nano ships. They're the new stabs.
Did you read the post?
Just the title.
Thanks, ignorance is bliss isn't it?
Yup. 
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Cpt Branko
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Posted - 2008.04.04 04:02:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Emperor
1) People say the Vaga needs to slow down to do damage. Why does the Vaga have issues with its speed hitting something but you suggest others can hit you fine? The ship shooting at you has the same transversal you do when firing back at him.
True, but sig radius factors in.
If you're not MWD-ing, you track relatively better (becuse your sig radius is smaller then his is). Also I'm a bastard and I like D180MM IIs which are preety much wicked tracking-wise 
Pimped ones have to slow down anyway due to creating tracking issues for themselves. That said, BS guns are easy to evade and blasters don't have the range required to reach you, short of heavily falloff bonused medium neutrons with null.
Originally by: Emperor
2) I am surprised tracking is so insensitive to speed. One would assume the Devs set tracking on guns to start losing accuracy at more "normal" and usual speeds. Certainly something less than 1000 m/s transversal which is usually the case. So a ship maintaining a 5000+ m/s transversal gets only a minor benefit in defense? If it is so bad then why a speed tank since it sounds like it is no tank at all and just a "run away" mechanism. It also suggest tracking is a complete non-issue at normal speeds since it takes some crazy speed to even start having a noticeable effect.
Essentially. Tracking is a issue at very short ranges (so a frigate orbiting a cruiser without even a AB is rather safe at 500m, something we've done fairly often when we flew in Rifter squads, throw 3-4 80% webs on a cruiser and it's not dictating transversal even with a Web/MWD, and at medium ranges (read: out of webrange) at very high speeds, preferably combined with a small sig radius (MWD nerfs your sig obviously), or in BS vs cruiser situations.
Originally by: Emperor
3) I do not fly a Vaga and have no real clue as to "acceptable" fittings but a Tracking Disruptor sounds like a great idea to me. With its speed the Vaga can effectively be immune to missiles and drones and hit a turret ship with a TD and I would think it would nerf their ability to hit at those transversal speeds to near nothing making the Vaga a lot safer.
You're actually correct, for solo situations a tracking distrupor (with range reduction, NOT tracking reduction) would be very much win versus non-BS sized ships, as you don't have to worry about transversal or tracking anymore, just keeping at range.
Ships with better range control can do this even better (Huggin/Rapier) - it's actually rather easy to make yourself immune to gun damage via the tracking distruptor + range/falloff script.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2008.04.05 13:57:00 -
[133]
Is this a call for Triumvirate and Pandemic Legion to merge?
These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade! |
Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.05 14:14:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Is this a call for Triumvirate and Pandemic Legion to merge?
nope this is a call for everyone to quit whinin about nano's and or let CCP know that there are enough intelligent people left in this game that they dont need to heed the call from the PVP challenged
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