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AeonPhoenix
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.04.04 04:00:00 -
[1]
This would be a nice bonus, destroyers are rather fun ships to fly.
Yet they are unbalanced across the races.
The Amarr destroyer is complete crap for pvp.
The Caldari destroyer is semi crap for pvp.
The Gallente and the Minmatar frigates aren't too bad, but still most people think they were made to salvage their missions or something.
As a suggestion, I think the slots need altering on them to something like this.
Armor tankers
Amarr destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Gallente destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Shield tankers
Caldari destroyer : 3 mid, 3 low.
Minmatar : 3 mid 3 low
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AeonPhoenix
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Posted - 2008.04.04 04:00:00 -
[2]
This would be a nice bonus, destroyers are rather fun ships to fly.
Yet they are unbalanced across the races.
The Amarr destroyer is complete crap for pvp.
The Caldari destroyer is semi crap for pvp.
The Gallente and the Minmatar frigates aren't too bad, but still most people think they were made to salvage their missions or something.
As a suggestion, I think the slots need altering on them to something like this.
Armor tankers
Amarr destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Gallente destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Shield tankers
Caldari destroyer : 3 mid, 3 low.
Minmatar : 3 mid 3 low
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Erotic Irony
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Posted - 2008.04.04 04:49:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: AeonPhoenix
This would be a nice bonus, destroyers are rather fun ships to fly.
Yet they are unbalanced across the races.
The Amarr destroyer is complete crap for pvp.
The Caldari destroyer is semi crap for pvp.
The Gallente and the Minmatar frigates aren't too bad, but still most people think they were made to salvage their missions or something.
As a suggestion, I think the slots need altering on them to something like this.
Armor tankers
Amarr destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Gallente destroyer : 2 mid, 4 low.
Shield tankers
Caldari destroyer : 3 mid, 3 low.
Minmatar : 3 mid 3 low
How about tripling their hull hitpoints and giving them a 5% hull resist role bonus--ideal for damage controls?
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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AeonPhoenix
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Posted - 2008.04.04 13:13:00 -
[4]
Edited by: AeonPhoenix on 04/04/2008 13:14:53
Anything would help really, these are among the most neglected ships in eve online.
They have no sense of themselves ingame, they are the are only ships I can find to point at that end up to have no real use, as said, the amarr coercer specifically, you'll never see anyone fly the amarr coercer that isn't someone that uses it to salvage missions, or a beginner player doing beginner missions.
They are only as fast as a cruiser despite being smaller and a lot more fragile, they only have about the hitpoints of any frigate. At least they get too use the frigate mwd with their superior capacitor power.
Sure there are interdictors, but interdictors aren't meant for casual pvp, they're quite expensive for what they are simply because of their warp jamming abilities.
CCP are too busy fiddling with their Titans or some other goodies for the top 0.1% of the game population methinx.
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Seth Ruin
Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.04 15:03:00 -
[5]
I've always clung to my idea of making destroyers the anti-cloaker ship. Just like the destroyer-class vessels in World War II, which were designed to combat submarines, the destroyers of EVE should have some sort of cloaker-finding abilities.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
I've always clung to my idea of making destroyers the anti-cloaker ship. Just like the destroyer-class vessels in World War II, which were designed to combat submarines, the destroyers of EVE should have some sort of cloaker-finding abilities.
Interesting thought. Maybe some bonus to fitting reqs for the "cloak scan module", whatever that might be.
...
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maralt
The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: maralt on 04/04/2008 17:55:03
Its a touchy subject cos if you boost them too much you can expect a visit from a lot of interceptor pilots howling in fury about destroyers kicking there butt and looking for blood.
But i do think they need summat cos all ive seen em used for is salvaging.
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.04 17:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
I've always clung to my idea of making destroyers the anti-cloaker ship. Just like the destroyer-class vessels in World War II, which were designed to combat submarines, the destroyers of EVE should have some sort of cloaker-finding abilities.
Was thinking that too. Destroyers dropping something like depthcharges..
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Gordon Red
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Posted - 2008.04.04 18:00:00 -
[9]
The T2ones are bad, so why should the T1ones good?
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iNsAn3
Team Rocket.
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Posted - 2008.04.04 18:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gordon Red
The T2ones are bad, so why should the T1ones good?
hahaha. This. 
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The Cake Is A LIE?!?! |
Bronson Hughes
Knights of the Wild
Visions of Warfare
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Posted - 2008.04.04 18:54:00 -
[11]
I see two problems with destroyers:
1. They don't have enough hit points. Battlecruisers have at least twice as many HPs across the board compared to their respective tier 3 criuser, some of them closer to two and a half. This makes sense because they are easier to hit (roughly double signature radius) and slower (lower base speed and higher mass). Destroyers all have less than twice as many HP as their respective tier 3 frigate.
2. They don't have enough low/mid slots. They currently have fewer lows/mids than their corresponding tier 3 frigate whereas Battlecruisers have at least one more, not fewer. They do all have 8 high slots, which helps offset this somewhat, but they all also suffer from the -25% RoF penalty.
My solutions to this problem are simple:
1. Buff Destroyer hitpoints. Make them more like Battlecruisers in terms of where they lie hitpoint-wise between frigates and cruisers (i.e. more in the middle, not closer to frigates like they are now).
2. Re-arrange their slot layouts. Remove the -25% RoF penalty and drop the number of high slots to 6 or 7 and add at least one more low/mid where needed, maybe two. Adjust fitting accordingly.
This would apply to Interdictors as well, but their bonuses may have to change to accomodate the reduced number of high slots.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
AeonPhoenix
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.04.04 20:33:00 -
[12]
Ok what about, buffing the t1 destroyer, and buffing the t2 destroyer, but incur heavy penalties when fitting the interdiction sphere launcher to reverse the t2 destroyer buffs?
I say this because, interdictors are a thorn in the side for a lot of people, any buff to normal interdictors would cause allsorts of problems and would negate somewhat on the role of the heavy interdictor.
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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.05 01:37:00 -
[13]
Meh, I wouldnt turn away a coercer that wanted to come roaming. Good enough to KO ceptors dps out to 35km, great tracking. Can fit mwd. So what if it doesnt have a point - it's not going to live long.
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For Medicinal Use Only. |
Seth Ruin
Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.04.05 04:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Razin
Interesting thought. Maybe some bonus to fitting reqs for the "cloak scan module", whatever that might be.
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Was thinking that too. Destroyers dropping something like depthcharges..
Whatever the devs decide to do to make cloaked ships find-able, I honestly believe it would be best for the game if it were done with a destroyer. They have no current role in combat, and they're vulnerable enough to allow a small gang of cloakers to wipe them out and return to hiding.
... I'm tempted to start my own thread on this idea, however. Just need to find the time to write a well thought-out proposal.
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0raven0
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.05 04:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: 0raven0 on 05/04/2008 05:00:32
Are you kidding me? Amarr destoyer owns, its an inty instapopper.
8x Medium Pulse laser II with scorch
1x sensor booster
2x tracking enhancer II
2x heat sink II
the ships do need more hp, but other than that they are good.
Amarr one is only one that really fits this role of anti-ceptor which is what dessies were designed for. No other dessies are any good at being dessies.
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Quote:
tuxford: AT LEAST ITS SPEELED CORRECTLY
tuxford: spelled*
Oveur: rofl
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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.05 05:15:00 -
[16]
I like the range of DLP more, but same thoughts on the ship its self.
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For Medicinal Use Only. |
Captain Spectacular
Minmatar Freight Hauling Service
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Posted - 2008.04.05 06:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: 0raven0
Edited by: 0raven0 on 05/04/2008 05:00:32
Are you kidding me? Amarr destoyer owns, its an inty instapopper.
8x Medium Pulse laser II with scorch
1x sensor booster
2x tracking enhancer II
2x heat sink II
the ships do need more hp, but other than that they are good.
Amarr one is only one that really fits this role of anti-ceptor which is what dessies were designed for. No other dessies are any good at being dessies.
I agree wholeheartedly with this, I LOVE the coercer as it is really, sure the 1 mid sucks, but fly in tandem and your golden. This thing really tears stuff up.
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Siigari Kitawa
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.04.05 06:56:00 -
[18]
It's not so much their HP (though it is a TAD low) but more of their sig radius.
Their sig radius is HUGE. 86 on a Catalyst. That makes them like a prime target for almost any gun. Medium guns tear their selves to shreds, while light guns are almost a sure hit.
That's their issue, but that won't be tweaked at all, because it is indeed fair.
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Alex Medvedov
Soliders Of Eve
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.04.05 10:39:00 -
[19]
I my opinion properly fitted Thrasher can even threaten AFs. How many of you who are calling for destroyer buff have Destroyer skill learnet to lvl 5 and flying them with fully t2 fit???
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Irn Bruce
Rentboyz
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Posted - 2008.04.05 11:58:00 -
[20]
A Catalyst with T2 blasters and a T2 drone, along with 3 magstabs and good skills can get nearly 400 DPS. That's pushing BS level.
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AeonPhoenix
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.04.05 15:17:00 -
[21]
Yes the Gallente and Minmatar destroyers are pretty good. I can imagine all sorts of kickass setups with them.
As for the Amarr and Caldari:
The coercer is an intercepter killer?
With a sensor booster?
Damn, I bet a intercepter pilot would literally crap himself if you turned up by yourself truddling along at 200 odd m/s, with no scrambler.
I know a lot of minmatar pilots in particularly that have a blast solo in their dessy, and its annoying because I can't do it.
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Abrazzar
Equilibrium Inc.
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.05 16:14:00 -
[22]
I have made a thread in the features forum about how destroyers could be changed to make them more fun to fly: Linkage
I made a new thread as posting the stuff here would be kind of a derail but, as they are somewhat related, I link it here.
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Ideas for:
Mining
Clouds
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Andreya
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Posted - 2008.04.06 01:52:00 -
[23]
actually cormorant is probably the best PVP destroyer out there.... it hits like a harpy, just as far, but tracks way better. we still screw around in cormys from time to time.
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Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
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Corstaad
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Posted - 2008.04.06 02:40:00 -
[24]
There not bad ships they'll pretty much destroy everything smaller then a AF. I haven't flown one since I got heat but I'm pretty sure I'd kill any of the AFs at 1/20th the cost.
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Julius Romanus
Fatalix Inc.
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.06 02:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AeonPhoenix
Yes the Gallente and Minmatar destroyers are pretty good. I can imagine all sorts of kickass setups with them.
As for the Amarr and Caldari:
The coercer is an intercepter killer?
With a sensor booster?
Damn, I bet a intercepter pilot would literally crap himself if you turned up by yourself truddling along at 200 odd m/s, with no scrambler.
I know a lot of minmatar pilots in particularly that have a blast solo in their dessy, and its annoying because I can't do it.
So you're mad that you cant solo, put that coercer in a gang and rock face.
And honestly, your comment about the point is worthless. Half the inties wouldnt even be in your scramble range w/ a t2 disruptor. Your range, your tracking, and the sigrad of your guns is what makes a destroyer good at what it does. Tackling has nothing to do with it.
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For Medicinal Use Only. |
Niffetin
Omni Research
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Posted - 2008.04.06 07:23:00 -
[26]
They are just fine and do what they are meant to do, anti-frigate/inty.
I still havent found a frigate/interceptor/another destroyer to beat my Coercer.
(50m to whoever beats me in a Destroyer 1on1, topic should be in the first few pages of Events -forums)
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Teeheee!
mematar's Video Archive |
Ugly Character
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Posted - 2008.04.11 11:13:00 -
[27]
How about Heavy Destroyers? :p
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Irn Bruce
A Catalyst with T2 blasters and a T2 drone, along with 3 magstabs and good skills can get nearly 400 DPS. That's pushing BS level.
at this, any thorax I'll fly does more DPS than this without as many magstabs...
A blaster BS is closer to 1k DPS, wake up!
Now, back to destroyers...
The catalyst isn't bad, but it's hell to fit it for long range. Either you will lack tons of PWG to fit 150mm, or you will lack CPU a lot to fit weapon upgrades. And it seems that there are similar issues with coercer on beams and thrasher on artys.
Improve the fitting of destroyers, it will improve them a lot. I couldn't make a good catalyst until I reach AWU 4...
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Korvin
Gallente
VooDoo Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Niffetin
They are just fine and do what they are meant to do, anti-frigate/inty.
I still havent found a frigate/interceptor/another destroyer to beat my Coercer.
(50m to whoever beats me in a Destroyer 1on1, topic should be in the first few pages of Events -forums)
1. To kill the inty - you have to catch the inty. (unless its 1 shot kill for a stupid frig)
2. Good assault ship will probably kill any destroyer/dictor and can kill all the stuff destroyers suppose to kill better.
Destroyers are useless, unless for salvaging and gank noob frigs, admit it.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.11 14:05:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/04/2008 14:07:11
Originally by: Korvin
1. To kill the inty - you have to catch the inty. (unless its 1 shot kill for a stupid frig)
Which is entirely possible with a Thrasher tbh.
Originally by: Korvin
2. Good assault ship will probably kill any destroyer/dictor and can kill all the stuff destroyers suppose to kill better.
A good assault ship is probably going to die to some of the more deadlier dictors (Sabre + 200mm AC IIs = Lots of pain).
Any assault ship will do inferior to a destroyer for sniping small ships. Take the Wolf vs Thrasher comparison: the Thrasher has more alpha, more optimal (ok, Wolf has a falloff bonus, which works well for arties too), and way way more tracking (50%), and same DPS assuming equal number of gyrostabs.
As for killing Assault Ships, it's problematic to do in a Destroyer but can be done; it's not nearly as clear cut a fight as you make it out to be. For killing interceptors and frigates, destroyers win hands down. To add insult to injury, destroyers are more agile
That said, as a pilot with Destroyers V, I fully endorse and support +1 med/low on all the destroyers + fitting for the extra slot naturally. It'd make it a more pronounced step up from frigates (naturally, if the AF buff fails to materialize this would horribly break Destroyer vs AF balance).
All that said, Destroyers are in fact high-SP ships (fittings, gunneries and so on) and are very useful in capable hands. I've been known to use a AC Thrasher for disposable DPS in gangs - pulling out 200 perfectly tracking DPS with a 3M loss cost ship is quite useful.
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