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Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:40:00 - [1] Seems to be millions of threads suggesting they be removed, so i'll try something different gasp Keep learning skills. Make it so you can only use a maximum 50% of your training power training them, and are able to train normal skills in the meantime. Newbies would no longer 'have' to be training nothing but learning for a month because... they wouldn't be able to. However they have the option to half their normal training speed for the benefits of learning if they so desire. The only reason people are so hot on learning skills right now IMO is because they're so desperate for some kind of psychological competitive edge, as if it actually matters. The only thing that needs a nerf is human nature. ...
The Herrick SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:47:00 - [2] Not a bad idea really, still mans they have to sink the time in so it's not like they get any advantage over the older players since it's still the same sp per hour just spilt up more. And would at least mean they got some new toys to play with while grinding out the damned things. I'd rather newbies were just given the decent stats from out of the box (I wouldn't mind losing the time/sp I sunk into them if it meant we'd be shot of the buggers). I know people don't have to train them and it's a good way of filtering out those "unsutible" for eve but I still think learning skills are a horrible thing. Originally by: Tania Russ Those of us who actually build stuff and accomplish something worthwhile in Eve, as opposed to pirates, who basically don't accomplish anything but stealing other people's stuff.
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:49:00 - [3] Keep it the same, direct whiny noobs to Hello Kitty Online or WoW ------------------Sig-------------------------- J. Kerouac said it best in The Vanity of Duluoz: "Go droppeth a turd."
Rawr Cristina Naqam	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Keep it the same, direct whiny noobs to Hello Kitty Online or WoW you think it hasn't been tried? ...
Surfin's PlunderBunny GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:55:00 - [5] I remember starting off with 32K SP and no warp to 0... they'll learn to love it ------------------Sig-------------------------- J. Kerouac said it best in The Vanity of Duluoz: "Go droppeth a turd."
Jenny Spitfire LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.04 11:59:00 - [6] To hard to programme ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
The Herrick SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.04 12:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I remember starting off with 32K SP and no warp to 0... they'll learn to love it Just because things were even more crap then don't mean that the current system is amazing either you know. Originally by: Tania Russ Those of us who actually build stuff and accomplish something worthwhile in Eve, as opposed to pirates, who basically don't accomplish anything but stealing other people's stuff.
tuppance abhag	Posted - 2008.04.04 12:09:00 - [8] i view the learning skills as a right of passage the people who train them are gonna stick around, you are not forced to train them at all, next it'll be i can't fly a battleship in my first week of eve, cos winers im afraid are never satisfied just cos u can get to lvl 80 or woteva it is in WOW, in a week dos'nt mean you should in eve i'm glad its different and makes you do crappy stuff if you so choose
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:19:00 - [9] the most boring topic in eve returns you do NOT HAVE TO TRAIN THE LEARNING SKILLS as soon as you start ffs train them when you want have some fun it aint hard and it aint brain surgery ffs you whinging muppets make me sick go play summat else if you dont like it instead of crying like babys all the time.
Overwhelmed	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:21:00 - [10] You sound more in support of the dual skill training idea, which is "on the drawing board" IIRC. That would be a great feature for new players since you could split training 50/50 with something useful and learning skills and not feel like you aren't progressing. Its all a psychological trick though because people can train learning every other skill if they wanted. ---------------------------------------------------------- Posting And You Disclaimer: This is a meta-game alt for meta-game discussions.
Erotic Irony	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:49:00 - [11] learning skills, more like lemming skills amiright ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Hasak Rain	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Keep it the same, direct whiny noobs to Hello Kitty Online or WoW This. Plus I would rather they did something like put in a training que or allow us to train more than one skill at a time but at half speed.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:20:00 - [13] People suggesting to new players to pick an Achura with dedicating their first month to learning skills are the problem. I've always suggested to my new players to train as they like in the begining and when they go to sleep to switch to a learning skill, then when they log on to keep training combat skills etc. I don't place too much of a premium on getting learning skills up and bore your newbies in the process. Also, learning skills make it so your alt with all your knowledge has to wait a while on its path to uberness. Its like an efficiency modifier - newbies train some incorrect skill/miss their skill switch time by a few hours - your alt which you already know how to specialize still has to train up learning skills to get to specialization. __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Tarron Sarek Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 04/04/2008 15:02:15 Originally by: The Herrick Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny I remember starting off with 32K SP and no warp to 0... they'll learn to love it Just because things were even more crap then don't mean that the current system is amazing either you know. Actually it was better. All the current newbies are spoiled. Oh, and they still complain. So nothing has changed. As a matter of fact nothing will ever change, because people will always complain. It's human nature I guess. Originally by: Omarvelous People suggesting to new players to pick an Achura with dedicating their first month to learning skills are the problem. I've always suggested to my new players to train as they like in the begining and when they go to sleep to switch to a learning skill, then when they log on to keep training combat skills etc. I don't place too much of a premium on getting learning skills up and bore your newbies in the process. Wait, this makes too much sense! You're an alien, right? ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like 'nerf' Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam
Raijin Iyo Nova Mining Manufacturing and Research LTD	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:00:00 - [15] Learning skills are fine the way they are. I like how most of the players coming on to complain about them are not new players themselves, but are assuming they know what new players are thinking. If you want CCP to eliminate learning skills so that you can train your alt faster at least admit it. Don't say that it is for new players. I AM a new player, and I have put about 500k SP into learning skills since I started in December, and I don't regret it. Now that I am up to the longer learning skills I just train one every once in a while. You can get a really crazy boost in SP returns immediately by training learning skills for 2 weeks, it isn't that bad. How are new players going to be able to stand training times of 20+ days for some individual skills when they can't even invest the time in learning skills?
Billy Sastard Life. Universe. Everything. Rejuvenate	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Rawr Cristina The only thing that needs a nerf is human nature. This -=^=-
N1fty Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Omarvelous I've always suggested to my new players to train as they like in the begining and when they go to sleep to switch to a learning skill, then when they log on to keep training combat skills etc. Exactly what I did when I first started, Learning skills were often the only ones which would last an entire night! Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I usually close my eyes and just beg, out loud added with a lot of squealing. I swear it helps.
Tarron Sarek	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:08:00 - [18] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 04/04/2008 15:10:44 Originally by: Raijin Iyo How are new players going to be able to stand training times of 20+ days for some individual skills when they can't even invest the time in learning skills? This is so true. It is exactly what happened with the new players 800k SP boost. Complaints about 'long training times' ... ah well, let's see... cruiser V anyone? Yeah, don't be shy, admit it! Those complaints haven't gone down, they've increased. A lot of new players get lured into the game by the instant gratification 800k SP and more skills, but the rest of the game is still the same. Cruiser V and Battleship V still take a lot of time (although I think cruiser V is the most common 'it takes too long' complaint). And then there's titans.. new players don't even know what to do with them, but that doesn't keep them from wanting to fly 'the biggest ship' and checking EVEMon.. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like 'nerf' Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam
Wet Ferret Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:22:00 - [19] Originally by: tuppance abhag i view the learning skills as a right of passage the people who train them are gonna stick around, you are not forced to train them at all, next it'll be i can't fly a battleship in my first week of eve, cos winers im afraid are never satisfied just cos u can get to lvl 80 or woteva it is in WOW, in a week dos'nt mean you should in eve i'm glad its different and makes you do crappy stuff if you so choose What about those who trained them, then quit because they were a boring, soul-sucking timesink? Of course I came back 10 months later... but, still.
Adjasarcanter	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: tuppance abhag i view the learning skills as a right of passage the people who train them are gonna stick around, you are not forced to train them at all, next it'll be i can't fly a battleship in my first week of eve, cos winers im afraid are never satisfied just cos u can get to lvl 80 or woteva it is in WOW, in a week dos'nt mean you should in eve i'm glad its different and makes you do crappy stuff if you so choose What about those who trained them, then quit because they were a boring, soul-sucking timesink? Of course I came back 10 months later... but, still. Those people are missing the one vital (real life) character trait needed to get the most from this game: patience.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:06:00 - [21] Copypasted to save retyping the same facts and figures out in a dupe thread: OK How about the fact that you can do all the learnings you need to have for the first 3-4 months by spending 50% of your free 14-day trial period training them? Even a new player who spends 8 hours a day every day playing EvE won't need to use all his offline training time to get to 4+3 by the end of his trial. Or the fact that CCP have in a way effectively already removed learning skills by giving new players enough free starting skillpoints to compensate them for training up to 4+4 with Learning at 5. At which point they have more than enough learning skills to carry them through the 7-month average lifespan of a subscriber. A player who stays longer than that isn't going to cry over getting 4 Rank 1 skills to level 5 if he wants to optimise his SP/hr a little more. Many players don't bother and they're perfectly happy. By the time you have your learnings at 4+4, Learning at +5, with +4 implants, you have 108.9 stat points. That compares to 114.4 stat points for 5+4 and 119.9 for 5+5. You're learning a whole 9.2% slower, on average than that guy who sat in the station until he'd completed his learnings, and just 4.9% slower than the vastly greater proportion of players who get 5+4. 4.9% slower. That's not exactly "crippling" is it? That's all the penalty you pay for taking learnings no further than the level than you're recompensed (in advance!) for with the free SP, compared to taking them to 5+4. It will be many months (years in the case of the 5+5 guys) before you even lose non-learning SP by only taking your learnings to the pre-recompensed level, and by the time the gap is significant, you'll have so many SP that you just won't really care by then anyway. 2M SP sounds like a lot when you're starting, but is the difference between a 29M SP character and 31M SP character that big? By then, which skills they've trained will be far more important than that difference in SP. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Cruiser V and Battleship V still take a lot of time (although I think cruiser V is the most common 'it takes too long' complaint). And then there's titans.. new players don't even know what to do with them, but that doesn't keep them from wanting to fly 'the biggest ship' and checking EVEMon.. I may be wrong, but I think it is kind a funny that you do not here many whines about the length of time to get into a Hulk. My guess is that it may be a bit shorter time then to get BS V. Originally by: Adjasarcanter Those people are missing the one vital (real life) character trait needed to get the most from this game: patience. I guess the lack of whines for the time to get into a properly tanked Hulk is due to the ability for someone to sit and click roids for hours on end ='ing patience. But as for a learning skill training nerf, I would say it is not needed. Train then or don't. I think it would be cool to try and play an alt with no learning skills past what is given at the begining which I would counter by not using implants. To see what the progression would be like. Slade
Ehranavaar CompleXion Industries	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Raijin Iyo How are new players going to be able to stand training times of 20+ days for some individual skills when they can't even invest the time in learning skills? 20 days isn't bad some of them take 40-60 days for that 5th skill level.
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:05:00 - [24] My only issue with removal of learning skills is that it would leave me bitter and twisted if the new starters didnt have to train them
Smantha Dering Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:05:00 - [25] copy and paste opinion on the matter. Too bad if you don't want to train learning skills. If you don't want to train them fine. The point of skill training is to try to acquire an edge over a competing player. I have my edge, being that I've trained my character to learn skills faster than some other players, meaning I will be a more skill capable pilot faster. The guy who trained all interceptor skills to V to gain an edge over my relevant skills to III and IV shouldn't have to deal with noobs automatically being given interceptors and all relevant skills set to V.
Smantha Dering Sam's Space Guys	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Bad Borris My only issue with removal of learning skills is that it would leave me bitter and twisted if the new starters didnt have to train them And this!
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 04/04/2008 18:34:08 Learning skill levels used in conjunction with implants gives immense flexability, i see no need for compensating evemon slaves who can't think things out because its complex and their brain hurts, or second accounters who want a differently skilled character at a level to the one they already have extremely fast and painless. edit: look at it this way, if EVE was a woman, would you you treat her like a lady or a tramp? ...... continues overleaf.
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Slade Trillgon Originally by: Tarron Sarek Cruiser V and Battleship V still take a lot of time (although I think cruiser V is the most common 'it takes too long' complaint). And then there's titans.. new players don't even know what to do with them, but that doesn't keep them from wanting to fly 'the biggest ship' and checking EVEMon.. I may be wrong, but I think it is kind a funny that you do not here many whines about the length of time to get into a Hulk. My guess is that it may be a bit shorter time then to get BS V. Originally by: Adjasarcanter Those people are missing the one vital (real life) character trait needed to get the most from this game: patience. I guess the lack of whines for the time to get into a properly tanked Hulk is due to the ability for someone to sit and click roids for hours on end ='ing patience. But as for a learning skill training nerf, I would say it is not needed. Train then or don't. I think it would be cool to try and play an alt with no learning skills past what is given at the begining which I would counter by not using implants. To see what the progression would be like. Slade /QFT ...... continues overleaf.
Slade Trillgon	Posted - 2008.04.04 19:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo look at it this way, if EVE was a woman, would you you treat her like a lady or a tramp? I guess it woulddepend on the night Showing my forum noobness, but does QFT mean Quit F-ing Trying Slade
Rawr Cristina	Posted - 2008.04.04 19:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Raijin Iyo Learning skills are fine the way they are. I like how most of the players coming on to complain about them are not new players themselves, but are assuming they know what new players are thinking. If you want CCP to eliminate learning skills so that you can train your alt faster at least admit it. Read OP pls. What I suggested wouldn't make it faster in any way. IT would just stop newbies falling into the 'Train nothing but learning skills cause ppl said so and get bored and quit' trap. In fact it would make alt making take longer because they couldn't spend 100% on learning right away. ... Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

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