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Thebro Nobrunder	Posted - 2008.04.07 16:06:00 - [1] Seems to me the issue here is that insurance is artificial. The insurance companies do no risk management. Some things which should raise the cost of insurance * If a whole lot of the same ship are being destroyed * a player is losing a lot of ships * the players sec status is low * something based on the players corp? For instance a players with a -10 standing who has lost 12 typhoons in 3 weeks and is trying to insure a new typhoon should be charged so much for insurance that it wouldn't be worth buying.
Tortuga Retamirus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.07 17:11:00 - [2] This shouldn't be too terribly difficult to implement on the server side.
Freezehunter Manson Family SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.07 19:45:00 - [3] signed... AND PLEASE MAKE SOMEHTING SIMILAR FOR THE t2 SHIPS! The current insurance system for t2 is a joke, it should be based on the price you bought it for, based on a formula...
Verital	Posted - 2008.04.08 05:51:00 - [4] If the ship gets killed by CONCORD, you should not get your money back :P However, thats the only change that I can endorse. If the EVE insurance companies did risk management like RL ones did, then the only things you COULD insure would be non-combat ships. And even then they would only be covered if you were in highsec.....
Destroy Jita	Posted - 2008.04.08 05:57:00 - [5] whats missing on the t2 ships is the cost of the t2 materials to build them its not factored in and needs to be, its not free to make those components so the ships aint going to cost the same as there t1 counterpart. why this hasnt been factored in yet is kind of sickening. would be nice to see the real insurance coverage on t2 ships, aka there real component and material cost but cough aint going to see that happen anytime soon im sure
Goumindong Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.08 06:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Freezehunter signed... AND PLEASE MAKE SOMEHTING SIMILAR FOR THE t2 SHIPS! The current insurance system for t2 is a joke, it should be based on the price you bought it for, based on a formula... this can be exploited to generate isk near infinitely. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Eleana Tomelac Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.04.08 08:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Verital If the ship gets killed by CONCORD, you should not get your money back :P However, thats the only change that I can endorse. If the EVE insurance companies did risk management like RL ones did, then the only things you COULD insure would be non-combat ships. And even then they would only be covered if you were in highsec..... People do mistake sometimes, so I propose a slight change : If your ship is killed by concord and you are on the killmail of a ship (someone was destroyed, it was a suicide gank and not a mistake) under concord protection inside your 15 mins aggro timer, you do not get insurance. So, insurance is delayed by aggro timer and received 'after investigation from concord'. So, the -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Astria Tiphareth School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.08 11:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Seems to me the issue here is that insurance is artificial. The insurance companies do no risk management. EVE however is based on PvP, combat is a way of life rather than an unusual circumstance. Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Some things which should raise the cost of insurance * If a whole lot of the same ship are being destroyed * a player is losing a lot of ships * the players sec status is low * something based on the players corp? 1) Disagree, this would merely unfairly discriminate against the popular/most capable ships. 2) See first statement about EVE & PvP. 3) Why should pirates not have their own insurance scheme? The Angels could run it... 4) Not sure what this would achieve, or how you'd determine it. I'd agree with other posters that insurance should be voided if CONCORD destroy you as a result of a successful suicide gank. Mistakes should not be penalised, nor should those evil pirating scum in low-sec just for choosing that career path. If it could not be exploited, I'd want T2 insurance to be more fair to the purchaser, but that's another kettle of fish entirely. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Eleana Tomelac Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.04.08 13:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth 3) Why should pirates not have their own insurance scheme? The Angels could run it... Cartel insurances! Huge! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Thebro Nobrunder	Posted - 2008.04.08 14:07:00 - [10] Edited by: Thebro Nobrunder on 08/04/2008 14:07:58 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth EVE however is based on PvP, combat is a way of life rather than an unusual circumstance. I agree wholeheartedly. Originally by: Astria Tiphareth 3) Why should pirates not have their own insurance scheme? The Angels could run it... No one is going to insure you if they would lose money doing it. It should still follow basic economic rules. Originally by: Astria Tiphareth I'd agree with other posters that insurance should be voided if CONCORD destroy you as a result of a successful suicide gank. Mistakes should not be penalised, nor should those evil pirating scum in low-sec just for choosing that career path. deffinately agree here.
Derrys Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:27:00 - [11] Insurance really, really needs to follow a sensible business model. The price and payout should be determined by a formula involving, among other things: 1. The frequency with which that particular ship type is destroyed. 2. The frequency with which that particular player loses a ship. 3. An additional premium which will allow the insurance companies to make a profit. Remember, insurance exists to give the insurance companies money, not the clients. The clients pay money in exchange for peace of mind. In other words, insurance should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet. I don't have a problem disqualifying suicide gankers and pirates from insurance payouts. Piracy needs to be made harder if you want to get people into lowsec (it sucks, but that's the only way to do it without screwing up the whole economy). I don't think it would be a big deal anyway, though -- if insurance were using a sensible model, not very many people would opt for it anyway.
Alz Shado Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.04.08 15:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Freezehunter signed... AND PLEASE MAKE SOMEHTING SIMILAR FOR THE t2 SHIPS! The current insurance system for t2 is a joke, it should be based on the price you bought it for, based on a formula... me: buys your Jaguar for 10b isk. you: give me back 9.9b isk in trade. me: self-destructs Jaguar. Both of us: PROFIT! //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Thebro Nobrunder Schrodinger's Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.08 17:00:00 - [13] It should either be based on the market value of the ship plus fittings or... you chose how much to insure your ship for. That number + the market value of your ship + fittings determines your premium. Btw, no insurance company is going to insure something for more than it's worth... unless you pay the difference :)
Mavolio White Nova Industries Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.04.08 17:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Derrys Remember, insurance exists to give the insurance companies money, not the clients. The clients pay money in exchange for peace of mind. In other words, insurance should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet. in the real world yes, in EvE its used so someone doesn't go and spend loads of isk on a BS then lose it and have to work their way back up from a frig.
grgjegb gergerg Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Alz Shado Originally by: Freezehunter signed... AND PLEASE MAKE SOMEHTING SIMILAR FOR THE t2 SHIPS! The current insurance system for t2 is a joke, it should be based on the price you bought it for, based on a formula... me: buys your Jaguar for 10b isk. you: give me back 9.9b isk in trade. me: self-destructs Jaguar. Both of us: PROFIT! That is the danger of using market prices for these things. Still, theres a bell curve. If CCP cuts out all the ridiculously low/high sell/buy prices, and averages the prices across the universe, they WOULD be able to arrive at an average buy value for things.
shady trader	Posted - 2008.04.11 22:18:00 - [16] The reason that insurance is in game is to limit the damage of lossing a ship and to make sure you have the funds to rebuild. If you have just invested all your money in buying and fitting your first battleship and it goes boom. Even if you have forgotten to insure it, you get around 40 mil. This gives you the funds to buy and fit a cruiser or battlecruiser to get you back on your feet so you can earn money for a replacement. Its easy for a new player to get concorded by acident, especially with some players trying to trick them into it. However the suicide attacks are a problem as well. That about the following idea? If your ship is destroyed by concord you get back the full insurance up to 1 million isk or 40% which ever is higher. This way new players in frigites get full cover but someone suiciding in a battle ship losses 60% of the value of the ship. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congrated by carebears for the actions.
Zartach Tzarszh Minmatar The Royal Engineers	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:25:00 - [17] I like this less than a remove payout on concord death tbh. A lot of pirates _and_ antipirates have low sec status for example and everyone who pvp's can have streaks of bad luck losing ships every day. Removing their pvp fun by having them grind for ages and basicly getting the short end on insurance would make this game vey boring with everyone loggin off to save their ship left right and center.
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 00:51:00 - [18] Concord on your ship loss mail and it voids your insurance. Problem is solved. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right??

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