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Rapturea
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Posted - 2003.06.13 06:45:00 -
[1]
lets take a look at some stats here, the 425mm duel scout artillery has a 3.9 damage mod 6 second reload, and 18000m acuarcy falloff if im not mistaken, anode ion blaster 3.59 damage mod, 5 second reload, 9000m acuracy falloff. the anode takes alot of energy to fire, the proj does not take much at all. i was under the impression blasters were intended ot be the biggest damage dealing type weapons due to thier short range, what exactly is the pointin ussing them if you can get a proj with more damage and twice the falloff range? something doesnt seem to by correct here
When I was a kid my favorite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school we'd all go play in his cave, and every once in a while he would eat one of us. It wasn't until later that I found out that Uncle Caveman was a bear. -jack handy |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.13 07:19:00 -
[2]
They only added hybrids to laugh at those using them like me. its like usiing the disadvange of projectile and lasers at the same time, while doing less damage.
With large weapons it gets even worse. Then hybrids hardly have half the range of the other two aswell.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Axelay
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Posted - 2003.06.13 07:29:00 -
[3]
Hybrids use almost as much cap as lasers, and you still have to carry ammo for them.
In my opinion, hybrids should be the most destructive weapons in the game, they have the heaviest penalty for use...
But they don't even have a gyro/heatsink type mod for hybrids yet.
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m0o
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Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.06.13 08:14:00 -
[4]
They do, axe, but I have yet to see pirate-drop versions. It's the magnetic... something or other.
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"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.13 08:37:00 -
[5]
There is no pirate version of Magnetic stabalizers. And only 1 type atm. its not like the dozens of heatsinks and gyros. EVE currently only have Basic, I, II, III, IV and V Magnetic Stabalizers. Nothing else.
6 Types in one serie. And only 2 ingame atm. So You have 2 things to add to boost your hybrids. Basic Magnetic Stabalizer or Magnetic Stabalizer I
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.06.13 08:53:00 -
[6]
I heard projectile is currently bugged and small projectile turret bonus stacks with medium, ect. That is adding a LOT more damage to projectiles right now.
But yes Hybrids do indeed SUCK, there are NO good magnetic stablizers in the game. Hybrids should be atleast just as good as laser/proj. They have both of each weapons weaknesses, hybrids should be fairly powerful. Right now they're a joke, there is no advantage to them.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
vyperpit
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Posted - 2003.06.13 09:47:00 -
[7]
i don't know how many of you were in beta, but the hybrids used to own projectiles were a joke. Lasers were next to uselss fun to see but far from any type of use every one had either missiles or hybrids its nice for this to change a little.
I know that the hybrids do need the same sort of items to pump them up but they are still pretty sweet maybe notas good as the unber laser's or good at close range as projhectiles but for range i like them. with looted 250mm rails coil versions i can almost garuentee hits from 100+ every time.
I'm not to sure peoples layouts and yes the basic magnetic feild item to increase speed and damage for hybrids are pants and we do need better versions. but do not give up hope for i am sure the gods will deliver us the hybrids of our dreams :P
----
Fair Fighting 
Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ???
"If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..) |
Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.13 09:59:00 -
[8]
vyperpit: Check large versions. You see that lasers got 12Km better optimal than the best hybrid got optimal+falloff. And less damage than all, plus worse tracking and firerate. It¦s a joke to use them. You sacrifice cap and ammo to get something worse than one using only one of them. And magnetic stabalizers are the only one in 1 factory version too. Gyros/heatsink are ina dozen types and pirate versions.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.06.13 10:29:00 -
[9]
Yeah...its true..they kinda sux now. I filed a petition some days ago and the GM said that he would make sure that the devs got aware of this issue. Well...lets hope it happens something in the upcoming patch...
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Torval Sontu
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Posted - 2003.06.13 10:30:00 -
[10]
Please don't bring lasers into this as the cap cost is HUUGE. Lasers were as bad off as hybrids in beta and in retail considering drops.
CCP has made projectiles and their named drops far more available in beta and in retail than any other weapon. Projectile was so common in beta you couldn't find jack if anything better in beta plus they didn't even itemize half the pirates in amarr space until end of beta like bloods among others.
Beta was projectile projectile projectile
Now in retail the decent easy to find drops are still projectile projectile.
I get alot more hybrid drops but the dmg modifiers are crap and to top this all off the projectiles got a HUGE boost in retail without a tradeoff..?!?!?!
Put it this way compare a heavy modulated beam and a gauss 250 rail with dmg mods and good skills against a regular market bought 650mm with dmg mods and emp ammo and you see the huge difference.
Lasers AND Hybrids need to be checked out again lasers need a nice bump in the dropped modifiers as do hybrids and projectiles need a nerf by raising cap costs or lowering the dmg mod.
Okies all done =P
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.06.13 10:55:00 -
[11]
IMHO what things "should" be:
1. proj weapons
High close dmg(just a bit less than blasters)
shorter range (slightly better than blasters)
less cap usage
2. Lasers
High dmg (as much as rails)
Best range
no ammo
High cap usage
3. hybrids
3.1.rails
good range (less than lasers)
good cap (just a bit less than lasers)
3.2.blasters
shortest range
most cap usage
biggest close range dmg
Edited by: StealthNet on 13/06/2003 10:56:26
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Demangel
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Posted - 2003.06.13 11:39:00 -
[12]
firstly you also have to consider turret tracking speed. the better it is, the more excellent hits you are likely to score. This effects the optimum ranges ETC, but the tracking speed is still important.
A 125MM rail and a 250MMarty combo do LESS average damage at 1 KM than 2 blasters generally (damage boosters and stacking not withstanding).
PERSONALLY, I think all the weapons should have closer fitting reuirements.
Particualrly when it comes to damage booster modules.
The Laterral gyro has miniscule requirements. The Stamped heat sinks requirements are completely manageable...
But has anyone tried to fit a hybrid one on a frigate? It's a joke, the damn thing takes 50 CPU just to fit it, not to mention power! And for what? The same mods as the other boosters... Bleh, poiuntless, and this is why hybrids get owned. Since the boosters, even with the new nerfing, will STILL outperform the hybrid version.
Lastly And for all of you who say pirates don't drop Magnetic field stabilizers, your simply not looking hard enough I have three in my hanger just collecting dust in the hopes CCP unnerfs the fitting requirements or maybe that they will fit better on a cruiser someday...
However they DO drop far less often than gyros, or heat sinks... Maybe about 50% as often as far as I can see.
HOWEVER Advanced versions of the Magnetic Field Stabilizers are UBER rare, I have found 2 lateral stabs, 1 stamped heat sink and ZERO advanced versions of the magnetic...
so put that in your pipe and smoke it hehehe.
To be honest the whole key to balancing the damn weapons now, lies more in the booster modules than the weapons themselves.
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.06.13 12:01:00 -
[13]
Hybrids weren't really better than Projectiles in beta. They were infact balanced. Projectiles did less damage, but had 0 to little cap usage (1 cap per shot for Dual 425mm Scouts). Hybrids did the most damage in the game, as they should, but at high costs; both ammo and heavy amounts of cap.
So how were they balanced if Projectiles did less damage then? Well you see, there's this thing called defensive modules, and Projectile users could devote all their cap to it whilst Hybrid users devoted all their cap to offense. They somewhat cancelled each other out that way.
The extra damage of Hybrids was absorbed by the extra cap the Projectile users had.
In a Projectile ship you could stay in combat for as long as you had ammo. As a Hybrid user, you could do fast raids and deal lots of damage, but eventually you would have to retreat and might not be able to kill your target at all. I have lots of experience with this, and as a Projectile user during the last 2 phases of beta, I think they were very well balanced. I once fought 3 cruisers at once without armor damage in my Rupture using projectiles, while they were all struggling with their cap.
Then CCP raised damage modifiers of Projectiles and now there is no point in using Hybrids anymore. Nice work.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Shari
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Posted - 2003.06.13 12:44:00 -
[14]
What the game needs in two words:
Potato cannons.
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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.06.13 12:50:00 -
[15]
I have to agree to most that Valeria said. I have the exact same experiences from beta and retail before they nearly doubled proj artillery damage.
Hybrids are not worthless though, f.e. the standard 250mm rail still does more damage per time than the 650mm ari, and has a far greater optimal range. Even the cap it eats wouldnt be the big problem atm, as fights are normally far too short.
Imho opionion the prob with hybrids is that you cant boost em as much as the others, atm, as mentioned above, plus rare hybrids often are rarer and not as good as other types.
Most rare hybrids only lower cap requirements, and dont boost damage much, which is useless, cause if you switch to projectiles, you dont need cap, and devs seem to have thought: hm, we cant lower cap requirements for rare projectiles, lets make the damage even higher to make it fair. Stupid.
P.S.: The heavy ion blaster f.e. is the cruiser weapon that deals out most damage per time atm that you can buy on market, the problem only turns up when you take pirate drops into the equation.
Edited by: Tsaya on 13/06/2003 12:53:05
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NGRU Irbis
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Posted - 2003.06.13 12:57:00 -
[16]
Chek ROF on Medium Projectiles lol some of them with high damamge modifier like 15 seconds vs 250mm rail like 4.5 even less, you must be never have good setup if yousaiyng Hybrid worst then Projectile i would never change my 250mm Carbides for any Projectile awesome balance ROF, energy use , range i can do 70 damage from 32km with ANM/ M of course, as for pple who saing Lasers not good i give you reason change your mind Heavy Modulated Beam Laser doing 100-140 damamge in range 16-20km by using only 17.5 energy ( of course you need skills to do so ) but they do rocks, i got 1x Heavy Modulated, 2x250mm Carbides 2x SB( 1x small EMP uniq, 1x smal Plasma) man most of pirates even with 50K bounty dieng faster then i reech 50% of my capacitors on Omen ( i have now 1286 caps on Omen). So for those who say Lasers and Hybrids no good guys traine your skills and get youselfe good guns :)
Edited by: NGRU Irbis on 13/06/2003 13:33:49
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.06.13 12:59:00 -
[17]
Tsaya, keep in mind range mods of ammo isn't working at the moment. The biggest range mod of Projectile ammo is -35% or so. On Antimatter, it is -60%. So Hybrids will loose their only advantage once range mods start working, making them completely worthless. Sure, you can use Iridum charges or something for minimal range penalty, but then you'll do absolutely ridiculous amounts of damage and there's no point in even thinking of actually fighting with Hybrids.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
AsInnocentAsItGets
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Posted - 2004.02.03 05:32:00 -
[18]
It depends what ship you are on
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Dirus
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Posted - 2004.02.03 05:34:00 -
[19]
Linkage
This might help show the actual power of turrets. dispite the hybrids having some nice stats, they still dont seem to do that much damage ingame.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2004.02.03 05:35:00 -
[20]
...stop bringing outdated topics back up for nothing....
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
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