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Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Imagine a module you could fit on your ship that gives a near 100% protection in one direction of the ship. I'm thinking some sort of module that you load with a script to have it directed either: * front * rear * left * right * up * down
So depending on which script you load your ship will have near invulnerability to damage from that direction.
I think this could provide some quite interesting fights, especially between larger ships, where they can establish perimeters in certain directions which would require some smart FCing to circumvent. * Fights would become more tactical if a feature like this was added, with positioning of ones fleet much more important than today. Fast maneuverable ships will also be more important in large ship fights as the large ships can't turn around to face threats like that. * Traps can be set where the enemy fleet is attacked from two directions preventing them to shield themselves from both. * Fights won't just deteriorate into 100 ships one-shotting one ship at a time, because that ship will probably have it's damage protection in that direction. Instead the fleet will have to be divided in several smaller groups that try to dogfight into a better position than the enemy. It will be more important with different squads and a more distributed fleet leadership. Instead of the FC giving orders to the entire fleet they only give it to the wing leaders and they to the squad leaders. * Ships that require to get to close range to inflict damage (read gallente) can equip such a module in a front direction to be able to close in on the target without taking damage.
From a technical standpoint I think something like this would be possible to implement on the server without too much complications. The angle of the ships and the relative position of the ships is known to the server and it can therefore easily calculate which quadrant takes the damage for each shot. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 13:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Daeva Teresa wrote:it would change the game dramaticaly. And yes I would love to see it. Only problem I see in 1 on 1 figths. Maybe if you could change it only once every 30s or so. +1 Yes it shouldn't be possible to change the script very often, like you say every 30 seconds or perhaps as much as every 5 minutes. Just let the module have a cycle time that is that long. Also you'd have to make sure one ship can't fit more than one or possibly two at the same time (a ship fitting six would be invulnerable and that would obviously not be a good thing). |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:since this is an idea going far beyond of what eve is now and how its working, a pointless stupid piece of a sh*t thread! One can think grand or one can think small, and it's pretty obvious how you think. It's lucky thinkers like Aristotle and Einstein didn't have the EVE features & ideas forum to visit or they would have killed themselves. "E = mc^2?" "Noob! it totally doesn't work like that!" "You realize how many teaching books we would have to rewrite?" "Phail!" "I build card houses for a living and hardly graduated from play-school, but I can with 100% certainty say that the server can't handle those computations!" "Physics is dying!" "This is the worst thread ever"
Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tekashi Kovacs wrote:It would greatly improve games combat, thats for sure.
Bad side of this is that it would require to implement some real collision detection and rewriting half of the engine probably. :) No the good thing is that you don't have to do that
Already now the server knows the position of the ship getting shot at and the ship shooting at it. It also knows the heading of the ships. Using this information and some vector algebra it's easy to figure out which of the six quadrants the attacking ship will hit on the other ship. We don't take into consideration other ships or objects that might be in the way, only the attacker and the attacked ship.
So no ray tracing or anything expensive and advanced like that. Just some simple vector algebra using values that are already available. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 14:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:Daedalus II wrote:Besides mathematically it's not complicated. All the data is there and can be used if needed.
Given it's not as simple as giving an afterburner +10% speed, but usually you can't get great reward without some effort. Math is not so complicated, but it is in the books. Not in EVE. Ships in EVE - so far - are uniform spheres without left, right, front, back, top, bottom whatsoever. Yes you are 100% right, however, the ships when moving have a movement vector, this vector is essentially the heading. Admittedly it's indeterminate when standing still, but that shouldn't be a major hurdle to fix. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Me thinks you just got back from playing Star Trek Online.
You'd think so, but no, I have never even played it ;) I've heard about the shields though and that they work roughly like this. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
88
|
Posted - 2012.02.27 20:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Aside from the fact that this would require a MAJOR change to the game engine, you just found the perfect way to completely negate sniping and 1v1 combat. Sniping will only be negated if the FC is an idiot and only attack from one side. He can split up forces and attack from two sides. 1v1 combat is not affected at all, you can't switch the direction of the module fast enough to make any use of it. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
89
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Posted - 2012.02.28 08:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: so, what your trying to do is encourage people to just throw as many ships as possible intot he fight in hopes of possibly surrounding the opponent so they cannot use their tanks? so basically we shuld just remove logistics from the game along with this, because that would make logistics become useless.
Quite the opposite, a smaller, better positioned fleet would win over a larger worse positioned fleet every time. If you feel you have to drench your opponents in ships you're doing it wrong.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: also, this idea is terrible, not only ebcause only about half the ships in the game can even USE shields,
Where have I ever said this would only be shields?
Nariya Kentaya wrote:but because "directed" anything is a ******** mechanic, all it would do is make the "orbit" cammand a suicidal action, and all pvp will become balsters on approach shooting eahcother in the front shield that is OMG "INVULNERABLE"
Yes close range ships will have a hand up in these fights, compared to today when they will be shot before they even get in range. Orbiting a ship will essentially negate the protection, both on the orbiting ship and on the ship being orbited, a fair trade in my opinion.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: in cinclusion, terrible idea, and i didnt even haev to get into how they woudl ahev to COMPLETELY dismantle the eve combat/control engine to reimplement some sort of wasd movement (which the server at 1 ticks CANNOT HANDLE much less the lag it would also cause) JUST so you can enter every battle "invulnerable"
wasd is definitely not necessary, possibly some extra mechanic for more fine-adjustment of ship heading when standing still.
Nariya Kentaya wrote: please, think REALLY ahrd about practical implications of your proposals before posting them, thx.
I have thought, have you?
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Daedalus II
Helios Research Combat Mining and Logistics
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 08:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:requires sooooo many changes to the game that this will never be implemented. it sounds cool on paper :-)
also the math is not simple in the scale that EVE works on. imagine a 200vs200 fleet fight and the server having to calculate all vs all positions and orientations on each tick and shot ...
why do you think EVE has no LoS mechanic ? Well you already have all the positions and orientations (on moving ships at least) at each tick. All you have to do are some minor calculations using those values. This is much simpler to do that LoS. |
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